Straw

So, you're hopping off his vote train onto mine? What's your reasoning for voting on me? What makes me a better lynch? I'm not sure what your logic for this is supposed to be. I wrote the post, got to Matrim's Araris question, went and found Araris's post, and then decided to add that to the reads. My quote posts aren't always written chronologically. Sorry if it was confusing. This reminded me, Xino posted some thoughts, so I'll move to Fura in hopes of a fast response. Agreed on this. I forgot to mention it earlier, but I'm probably going to be fairly suspicious of anyone who really tries to go after him for stuff like this. I might be biased since I was a serial killer in LG64 and got him mislynched. Meh, I disagree with reading that much into new player confusion, since as you noted in #11, it can be faked. For the first Emi post especially I would read that as NAI since an elim might still ask in the thread to get a faster response. I feel like you're overstating many of these things. BTW, I village read Matrim as well based on gut, and read Emi as NAI right now (Kyndath and Karnage votes cancel out confusion goodwill IMO). I changed my vote to Xino later. I wanted to give him time to make a post, since I think an initial rules analysis post or whatever is NAI. You just can't copy and paste correctly. Good luck catching up with how fast the thread is going! I have a few more questions, but I'll wait for now. They'll probably be answered in your larger post.

What in this indicates that I'm elim? You only mentioned that you agreed with Orlok on infolynching, but didn't mention me at all otherwise. For such a long post, this has remarkably little thought put into it. Care to elaborate?

That's some messy formatting. I'd just like to say that I totally called it: Will respond soon.

Well, we do want to have a lynch every day we can. Someone has to get lynched, after all. I'm not sure how I feel about the Karnage lynch. I'll have to go back and look at his posts more.

Any last minute thoughts or reads you want to share?

Yes. Just put your last vote in green and your new one in red. It's interesting how @Orlok Tsubodai, @little wilson, and @Sart have all been rather quiet lately. Orlok talked about infolynching with me, but hasn't really replied to me on his read of me. I feel like he's going to drop a giant post or something. Wilson put a gut vote on me and didn't elaborate. She also explained her whole tone thing. Sart just dropped a weird bandwagony vote on me and left. Okay, I'll update. I think one of the TGK people did switch their vote.

@Karnage I'll try making one. Give me a few minutes. EDIT: I think this is correct. Sart(4): Xino, Arraenae, Karnage, Matrim's Dice Straw (3): Wilson, Orlok, Sart Karnage (2): Furamirionind, Araris The God King (2): Experience, Shard of Reading Emi (1): Pyro Furamirionind (1): DeTess Kynedath (1): Emi Xino (1): Straw

Interesting. I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt since you're a new player and all that. Do you have any other reads?

As Kynedath said, I'm curious to hear your reasoning. Care to share any suspect things he's said? I'm rather confused.

I assume you are referring to QF44? In my opinion, a large part of the reason the elims won that was because they flew under the radar. It is not my intention to discourage you from posting or contributing. In fact, it was the opposite. I was just letting you know that typically, I am suspicious of people who say stuff like that on D1, as I feel like it discourages discussion. In this, I believe I am of the same opinion as Orlok (be active, make reads, don't just try to survive, etc).

QF = Quick Fix MR = Mid-Range LG = Long Game More info can be found here Also, that whole thread I just linked is a great resource for new players. It has a lexicon, etiquette guide, and the SE rules.

Cycle one. Typical notation for ingame time is the part of the cycle if applicable and then the number. For example, a LG's threads would be like this: D1, N1, D2, N2 and a QF's threads would be like this: C1, C2. (D = day, N = night, C = cycle).

What makes you think this? I don't like how self-defeating this is. There are definitely good lines of discussion that we can follow C1, and it's hardly "random at best". We have six pages of posts to look at, and I highly doubt that people will be unable to get any reads from those. I'm mildly suspicious of anyone who pushes this kind of thought, since it just feels like an excuse to not participate. EDIT: Also, what makes you say that people can't be cleared if they're useful? What non-mechanical things do you think can clear people?

Yes, the village needs to address the information balance. However, infolynching is a poor way to accomplish that. By directly saying you're infolynching, you provide few ways for your target to put up any defense. They can hardly go back and say they didn't interact with anyone else, or didn't make any posts. Infolynching also provides people with an easy way to bandwagon. They don't particularly have to analyze the person they're lynching, and they can just hop on the train. I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree on infolynching. I'd be curious to hear what other people think of infolynching after seeing our arguments for and against it. In regards to your "reasonable and material suspicion", I do believe that several players are more suspicious than me. Some people that immediately come to mind are Sart, for bandwagoning on me with little reason and Araris, for being supportive of bandwagoning but opposed to poke-voting. Pyro and Xino were both suspicions of mine, but I've grown less suspicious of them. I will be interested to see your post, since I have yet to see any response to my response to your post. I also have yet to see why you're so supportive of Emi, and why you wanted Matrim to sheep your vote. Some thoughts on Sart or Araris would also be appreciated. You vote in the thread in red text. Red text can be created by doing something like this: [color=red]Emi[/color] Also, in an attempt to get some content from you: How do you feel about Orlok reading you as village? Do you think you've done anything especially village-ish so far this game to deserve that? What are your suspicions and reads on other players?

While I am biased since it's my neck on the line, I very much disagree with lynching for information, rather than actually trying to vote on someone suspicious. First of all, lynching me just because I've interacted with a lot of people sends the message that if people are active and interact with others, they will be lynched. I doubt that is the kind of attitude or message that would be helpful to us in the future. Secondly, lynching for information corrupts the information you're trying to gain. People won't vote or defend based on legitimate reads, they'll vote based off of information gain. This makes it easier for eliminators to hide in the crowd, since they don't have to formulate reads, and reduces the amount of information you actually gain. In my opinion, we should always be focusing on the player who's the most suspicious. I'm kind of surprised you'd push for infolynching, since I feel like you should know how weak it is.

It seemed like your vote was a legitimate mistake, and you didn't really jump at me for going after you. That's point in your favor IMO. I believe I have quite clearly said that I was suspicious of Xino, Karnage, and Pyro and thought Emi was NAI. On Karnage, I would like to see an explanation from him. I think it's his second game or something, so weirdness can be excused. I suppose I haven't given many reads from other people, so here are some other reads: Kynedath: Gut village read. I liked that they helped out Matrim and Emi. Hemalurgic Headshot: Minor gut elim read. They were waffling back and forth on a D1 lynch, which I disliked. Coda: NAI. They said one general thing encouraging Flogs to not die, which I don't find suspicious. Flos has an alignment scan, so I think they were probably encouraging Flogs to be careful with who they trust to pass on their reads to. I don't get why people would find that suspicious. Araris: They showed up, voted on Karnage with no explanation that I could see, and left. I don't like it. Wilson: I of course find their elim read of me to be suspicious, but I'll put them as NAI until I can figure out their posting style. They posted? Okay, found it. I'll move from Araris to Xino. I'd like to see some non-rules related discussion from him. Side note: I'm fairly annoyed that I'm seemingly being targeted based on gut and possibly the fact that I'm one of the more active posters.

I was writing and fused "more than one" and "could have two". You didn't make a mistake.

That's pretty eh. I'm not going to really look at clarifications as contributions. Yes, Joe said in the rules that people could have more than two roles. I'm not sure if that'll still hold up with the increased number of players though. He said that people have one action, so that answers your second sentence, I suppose. If you keep posting rather than trying to hide in the shadows, I'll probably be okay. What are your reads, currently? Looking back, I don't see much to prompt a village read? All of their posts have been confused, which I take as NAI. You could make the argument that they'd be less uncertain about stuff if they had teammates supporting them, but I don't really buy that. Am I missing something?

That's how I talk in general. I'm pretty sure this is just you taking issue with how I speak. You might want to look at how I've talked in some recent games. I tend to throw in stuff like "probably" because there are edge cases where it'd be better to go after Bleeder. For example: If Bleeder dies, then we'll win as soon as we catch the last constable. Due to this, if we think we've caught all of the constables and Flogs isn't dead yet, we might want to try to go after Bleeder instead of dispersing. That way, we can confirm our victory. Nope. I wanted to see how he'd react. You do realize that his vote was made on false assumption, right? Also, what information do you think that would gain you? I'd much rather see Matrim put out his own reads, rather than following yours. Agreed on Xino, Pyro, and Karnage. I'm most suspicious of Xino though. As I believe I've mentioned, he does seem to be adding unnecessary fluff to his posts. I'll be fine with Pyro if he actually starts posting useful things. Non Alignment Indicative. I think it might be in the SE Lexicon, but that's always hit or miss.

Do you realize that we win when all the Constables and Bleeder are dead? I'll guess you're assuming we haven't found Bleeder in that scenario? I will be quite interested to see your reasoning for that.

Good catch from Xino about Elkanah's thing on Gambling Tycoons. We don't get a role flip from them until they die, AFAIK, so I don't think they give us that much information. I find it interesting in hindsight that Matrim jumped on me right after Wilson. There's a slight possibility that he was trying to jump on her vote and get a lynch train on me.

That's really not useful at all. I'm probably going to be more suspicious of people who are trying to fly under the radar than people who are actually trying to contribute. ... Go to the player list at the start of this cycle and open it. Then, look at the top name. It's Araris.

Interesting tone. What makes you have a bad gut read of Karnage and me? On a separate note, xino's post bothers me when I look at it more. Some of the stuff is literally just repeating the role descriptions. It feels like a way to make it look like he's saying a lot while actually saying very little. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on him.

I never said he was the only person on the playerlist who hadn't checked in. I just went to the playerlist and checked to see if the person at the top of the list had posted. If he hadn't, I would have just continued down until I found someone who hadn't posted yet.

Nine elims is a possibility. In that case, I'd expect a lot of villagers with powerful roles or multiple roles and/or a pretty weak elim team. I believe 12 players have checked in now. I'll poke Araris Valerian for now, since he's the first person on the playerlist who hasn't checked in yet. We'll have to be careful about inactivity, and keep the bar fairly high. It'd be easy for Bleeder or the Constables to hide in the crowd of inactives.