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Jofwu

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  1. Jofwu
    I will be there with my wife. Might bring our baby for part of Sunday?
  2. Jofwu
    Huh. I actually think Jasnah could never really be that sort of friend. But then I guess I've been assuming their relationship will always be an unequal one. This is all even more true with Jasnah as queen. But that's certainly an interesting idea. Oooooh, now that's an interesting idea. I'm thinking Ishnah is the best person for the job, but Iyatil would certainly be an interesting person to take it.
  3. Jofwu
    @Naurock I think the explanations are a little flimsy though. I dunno, I actually didn't notice this myself. My wife noticed the lack of these friendships and brought it up at some point. (can't remember the context) Even if the explanations are solid... Brandon is the one writing the story, and there's no reason he couldn't take a different approach in most of these cases. I suspect it's a mix of him not thinking about it or him not being comfortable (reasonably so) with it. I don't mean to be very critical of him for this. It's just something I think is a little lacking. Wouldn't have been hard to let Sarene develop a close friendship with someone in Arelon. Vin had a rough past, but she opened up to a few people eventually--just none of them women. Vivenna and Siri are definitely more difficult to do this with without bigger structural changes--agreed there. My take on Marasi is that she's just kind of nerdy and introverted--not the type to make close friends at university. That's understandable. More than anything with her, I'd like to see her relationship with Steris develop. But this is all WAY off topic. I've said my piece. Concerning Shallan... It makes sense we haven't seen a friendship like this with her. As a child she clearly just didn't get this kind of opportunity. In TWoK there just wasn't really space to get into this, and she left Kharbranth behind anyways so you couldn't develop anything long-term. We got to see something maybe similar with Tyn. Probably our best example of what Shallan would look like with a friend. But of course that relationship wasn't quite one of peers, and in any case it was covered in layer upon layer of lies (from both sides). May and Laral both have potential. Maaaybe Lyn could work? I think someone darkeyed (not sure who though) would be a really good option--seems to me it would be good for Shallan to connect more with someone from the lower class. (on top of the other benefits to this)
  4. Jofwu
    This is something Brandon seems to overlook often. Sarene, Vin, Vivenna, Siri, Shallan, Marasi.... NONE of his leading ladies ever seem to have a close female friend. Shallan could really use one, too. Fingers crossed?
  5. Jofwu
    What part of Shallan's past do you think will come out? I don't see how her brothers to be any less private about their family history than Shallan does.
  6. Jofwu
    Okay, so here's one thing I've seen come up a few times, which I think is related to the topic at hand... Concerning Adolin's treatment of Shallan and her personas at the end of Oathbringer... Thoughts on that? I've seen a few comments by people who think it's not healthy. I'm not sure what I think, but I'm hesitant to jump that far with it. Feels like outright denial of Veil and Radiant might just push Shallan away. Cause her to shut down more. For their relationship to develop, that's obviously not good. So what's the right balance? How should he handle it? How will he? What will that mean for their relationship? For those who think the triangle is still on, how do you think Kaladin will handle them?
  7. Jofwu
    Bravo @hoiditthroughthegrapevine, good stuff. I think there's also an argument to be made for a mix between A and C--the full nature of Adonalsium covered, but with overlap. My gut says case A. I disagree strongly with the notion that there is "leftover" bits of Adonalsium that aren't part of a Shard. I think there's lots of support for this from WoB. But I would also be comfortable with that A/C mix. Personally, I think it's more likely that we have case A, and then any perceived overlap is a matter of seeing "expressions" which extend beyond the bounds of the Shards' natures. I don't think there's a fundamental difference between the first three and the second three... almost. I mean, we're not assigning anything meaningful to what the 2D space represents, so I don't see a distinction between squares or weird shapes. Either is an abstraction. You could make the argument that they vary in "size", but that would suggest to me that they aren't all equal in power, and I'm very skeptical of that. I tend to agree with this, though I think it's debatable. Or rather, looking more closely, I do disagree that the expression always grows to fill the nature perfectly. I agree with the idea that an expression shrinks (in time) so that it doesn't extend outside of the Shard's nature. But I'm less convinced that it will be perfectly in line. That would mean two vessels who pick up a shard will eventually have identical expressions (matching the nature perfectly). I'm starting to like the idea that there's room for different expressions, just so long as they are within the bounds of the nature. So in your example, the yellow and pink boxes would have to shrink in to fit inside the blue nature. But they don't both necessarily warp to fill up that nature's space perfectly. They can stay boxes for example. Just bounded by the nature.
  8. Jofwu
    WoR quotes, spoilered for length: My interpretation has always been that Shallan didn't entirely know what she was doing when she killed her mother. It seems to be more a case of instinctual self-defense than a conscious decision that she was prepared to make ahead of time. I don't think a prior basis for fear is necessary to explain why somebody would draw a weapon first and ask questions later. Especially when the weapon was drawn in a frightened panic. I might even argue that Shallan wishes she could take the action back, but I don't know the right quotes off the top of my head to make that point very well. The point I was trying to make about the madness was a similar one. It's the difference between her mother taking action on a sudden whim versus deliberately. But yes, someone who kills their child deliberately for a reason like this would be called "mad" in my opinion. I got lost in the details maybe. But this is all a minor piece of the point I was making. That first part of the quote above reinforces that larger point. I think there's an argument to be made that Shallan wouldn't be as confused by what her mother had done if her past was dark. Perhaps her "why" question is more about the specifics, and the fact that her mom did isn't so surprising in itself. That's fine. I'm just arguing it can be interpreted different ways. I think maybe we're talking about different things. Because I don't think any of this diminishes Shallan's difficult childhood. I completely agree with you there. I'm only questioning the details of when the trouble began, precisely. I'm also not trying to justify Lin's actions. I'm just pointing out the argument that he didn't become this way until after his wife's death, which plays into the discussion about when Shallan's troubles began.
  9. Jofwu
    My initial interpretation of that scene (of wanting to forget the memories) was that she wanted to banish the memories because there are unhappy ones tied in (before killing her mother). Indeed these "happy memories" (from before her mother's death) may be filled with lies, or be a total fabrication. So I think that can be taken either way. You call it madness, but I hesitate to jump there. It could have been a matter of cold (very dark, and mistaken) logic rather than madness. And I don't think Shallan's willingness to kill someone trying to kill her (mother or not) is a sign of past relationship trouble. Especially since it was partially a mistake. Shallan's second flashback could be interpreted as saying Lin's anger problems were a thing that took off after his wife died. I can see how that traumatic experience would push him over a cliff, and that he was a much more balanced person before. (I want to say there's also an argument to be made that one of the Unmade was affecting him, but I can't remember my basis for that.) I do tend to think her childhood (before killing her mother) had some bumps. I can't make up my mind on how big those were though, and I don't think people are being irrational for taking the view that her mother "snapped" in a very sudden way (or at least in a shot period of time) and that everything prior to this was "normal", more or less. I doubt that he was, why do you say that? His wife (and son) was, so you could say he was by association, but he didn't seem to get along with them very well or know much about them. I assume you meant "the Ghostbloods", though I don't think there's much evidence that he was associated with them until later. My interpretation is that he didn't get connected with them until he got financially desperate and started looking for a more drastic solution.
  10. Jofwu
    Sure, sure. I don't mean to argue that it was objectively "righteous".
  11. Jofwu
    I was originally going to nitpick @GarrethGrey's comment comparing Adolin and Shallan's childhoods, but I think his POINT was simply that their childhoods "don't compare"... not that Adolin's was sunshine and roses. I absolutely don't think it's right to say Adolin's childhood was a cakewalk. The death of your mother at a young age (what was it, 12?) is tough for anybody. A father who spends the next 5 years as an alcoholic isn't good either. If you know somebody in real life who had experienced one parent die followed by the other coping with alcohol... you'd consider them to have a broken childhood. I would at least. I also tend to agree with @maxal somewhat concerning Adolin's relationship with his father. They had a few good years together on that military campaign against Jah Keved, but Dalinar seems to be a pretty distant father otherwise. I absolutely wouldn't say it was an abusive relationship. But despite Dalinar's affectionate thoughts, I don't see much substance to their relationship beyond certain aspects Dalinar is comfortable with. He might think well of Adolin, but I don't get the sense that they had a very intimate relationship. So again, not horrible. But not a particularly great dad either. All that to say, I didn't think it was fair when Adolin's trials were glossed over... But the focus of the conversation was in how his experiences compare to Shallan's, and if that's where we're at... Yeah, I have to strongly agree that Shallan's childhood drama is one or two weight classes higher than Adolin's. If the discussion is ultimately about whether that enables Adolin to empathize... Eh... That's not black or white. I definitely think he has some dark experiences that will help him understand Shallan better than he would otherwise. The depth of their trauma aside, having experienced the death of his mother will help him to understand what Shallan went through better than if he hadn't experienced that. It will help him understand in a way that most people couldn't. Same thing for his experience with righteous murder.
  12. Jofwu
    This is the only thing that really sticks out to me. I don't put much stock in the fact that the kids would readily think Lin a murderer. It's the most logical conclusion given the evidence, and he intentionally let that rumor spread. What else were they supposed to think? But the whole murder-her-daughter thing (or just generally being part of a "cult" to begin with) is certainly notable. I lean towards agreeing with you based on that. I just think there's way too many unknowns to discount an alternative explanation. We don't really know how long her mother was involved with the Skybreakers. Shallan could very well have had a totally normal childhood until the last year or so before her mother went over the deep end. You're probably right. I'm just hesitant to narrow down my expectations on this one. Also not terribly on topic, so sorry about that.
  13. Jofwu
    What makes you think her brothers were a mess before their mother's death? I've gone back and forth on this, so I can see both sides. I can't think of any definitive evidence one way or the other though. We don't meet any of them until after Shallan killed there mother and everyone thinks Lin did it. Can't think of any mentions of their problems prior to that. Shallan's original bond to Pattern is fascinating to me. I can't decide of the lies that attracted Pattern were "hide from a difficult life" lies or just "I'm a kid with a powerful imagination" lies.
  14. Jofwu
    All very good points, and that WoB is hilarious. Like I said, I don't think Adolin's understanding of her is complete. But the exact nature of her past is a pretty huge thing that he definitely doesn't know about. I suppose I could argue that he can see and understand that there's something there. And that he's the right kind of person to walk through that with her. But that's probably based on little more than what I'd like to see. Time will tell. If their marriage is going to be successful, that past is definitely something that she'll need to (at least partly) share with him. Maybe having her brothers around will help drive that. I think Pattern likes the IDEA of "lies". It's a very human thing to him. A very bizzare, magical, unnatural thing. But he sees the difference between lies and truth as clear as night and day. So it's definitely concerning to him that Shallan is getting them mixed up. It's like they're playing a game and then he suddenly realizes Shallan doesn't know it's just a game. Way off topic, but I think Pattern is fascinating.
  15. Jofwu
    That's a good way to word it. Well, apparently this isn't as unpopular as I thought. Seems like this always gets mentioned in peoples' "top 5 things wrong with OB" lists. At least there's a few of us.
  16. Jofwu
    @Vissy (and others) Oh, yeah, that's a totally valid argument. I just tend to think Adolin is fairly perceptive concerning other people, and that in this case he sees down to who she is. Maybe I'll be surprised. I certainly don't think he understands her perfectly well, nor do I think that we as readers know her perfectly well. But I feel like like Brandon has shown us many pieces of the real Shallan, and I feel like Adolin has put many of those together. But, honestly, I don't think she's as complicated as she thinks she is. She's a creative artist. She's a scientist who wants to know how the world works. She likes taking risks and leaping before she thinks. She likes real-world, first-hand experience. She loves her family fiercely. She's a daydreamer. She's tough. She's a Radiant. She's a victim of abuse. She's not THAT big a mystery, in my opinion. She FEELS like a total mess, which is only natural. She doesn't understand herself in the same way that any teenage kid in her place wouldn't understand herself. She has a lot of grief to work through. She has a super weird, broken childhood to recover from. She's got a lot of trauma that needs healing. She's also more than she thinks of herself. And is capable of more than she thinks herself capable of. Most of the "lies" aren't really lies. Shallan CAN be what Veil and Radiant are. She's just doesn't believe that of herself sometimes. The personas are just an easy way for her to deal with the hurt or fear. She takes certain qualities of herself that she needs the persona to have and leaves out the qualities that she thinks hold her back.
  17. Jofwu
    I've always liked Adolin because he makes me feel warm inside. His respect for his father is... comforting to read? Even when he thinks Dalinar has gone off the deep end, there's so much love there. With OB's flashbacks, seeing how Dalinar wasn't as good a father as I had assumed, this only makes me love him more. I also really love how good a friend he is to Renarin. I also have really loved watching his relationship with Kaladin develop. I think I'm in a small minority that cared very little for Adolin's murder plot. In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone else say they were happy with how that played out in OB. I was glad that we got a few instances of him emphasizing that he'd do it again in a heartbeat and that it was otherwise left in the dirt, buried by everything else going on. Unpopular opinion, I know.
  18. Jofwu
    Maybe I emphasized too strongly that they're all part of Shallan. Or maybe I'm just not communicating my thoughts very well. I do think she is "becoming different people." Veil is not Shallan. Heck, sometimes Shallan is not being Shallan. I think Adolin has expressed he believes there IS a "real Shallan" buried underneath and that these personas aren't it. That doesn't mean he thinks they aren't connected to her. I think he realizes that the personas carry elements of the true Shallan. Maybe a little silly, but we could almost pretend that Shallan is an actress who doesn't know how to stop acting. She conjured up this character named Veil. Veil is based on herself--just with an alternate past that shaped her into something different. Shallan puts on a wig and totally loses herself in the character of Veil. Adolin gets it, in my opinion. He knows that Veil isn't a total fabrication--that she is based on Shallan, and perhaps even portrays pieces of Shallan that don't come out usually. But he'd prefer that she work through her issues and be comfortable sharing that side of herself without jumping into a persona. And he certainly doesn't want to sleep with her when she's got a wig on, pretending to be someone else. My basis for Adolin recognizing all of this is simply their interaction on Honor's Path and after the battle. I'm reading into it heavily, combining it with my own interpretations of Adolin and Shallan's characters. It's just my gut perception of what Adolin is saying. Could be wrong. That's not to say it's just wishful thinking. I've seen arguments to the contrary. This is just what I've settled into thinking.
  19. Jofwu
    This is how Shallan describes it, but I think that's filtered through her perception of herself. She always talks about them as separate entities, which I don't think they are. I know there's reason to believe Adolin sees her this way as well. The "real you" conversation could be interpreted to mean he doesn't see those personas as Shallan, for example. But my interpretation is that Shallan's personas are a mixture of "real Shallan" AND "lies". Shallan takes pieces of who she really is, accentuates them, and then hides behind them. And I think Adolin understands that better than anyone else. So I don't think he'll simply see the Ghostbloods as Veil's thing. I think he's perceptive enough to know that if Veil is involved then the "real Shallan" is also involved. That's how I read it, anyways. This typo is glorious! There's a joke in here about Shallan pooping in Shardplate or something, but I'm not clever enough to make it. I don't mean to tease, of course, especially given English isn't your first language. (I wouldn't have known if you didn't say it.) I just didn't want to be the only one to chuckle. Anyways, I don't think we can put much blame on Adolin for fast-tracking Shallan's training. Under normal circumstances, you'd have time to train properly. (I also think there was more of that "normal" training than we saw--Brandon just didn't show it because it's boring.) Shallan's circumstances are unusual. She already has a Blade (a particularly unique one, in Adolin's eyes) and the world is ending. I think he was just doing his best, not knowing Shallan's deeper issues (at that point).
  20. Jofwu
    Well, that describes me actually. I didn't think Edgedancer fit very well before and was undecided on him reviving Maya or being a Radiant. Oathbringer convinced me on all these things. Totally off topic... Just saying that there's always an exception. This kind of hits on something that I see a lot of in these discussions. My opinion here is that Brandon simply didn't deliver particularly well. I mean, he did for many people obviously, but not as many as he could have. This is shaped primarily by my wife, who has convinced me that Brandon is very hit or miss when it comes to writing romance. Well, the last scene is Dalinar writing Oathbringer. But I'm highly skeptical Shallan and Adolin's relationship is going to be happily ever after. I'm very hesitant to think Brandon will break them up, but I don't think that means smooth sailing for them. I think book 4 will pick up on the tail end of their honeymoon period, and give us a lot of tough stuff for them to work through in books 4/5.
  21. Jofwu
    I tend to think the wedding plus Kaladin's "I'm okay with this" moment were Brandon's way of saying "this is over." About as far as you can get from evidence... Just my gut perception of Brandon. Though I've gotta say, I'm really curious how things might proceed if it's not over.
  22. Jofwu
    People are welcome to discuss whatever they'd like to discuss. They can argue. They can gush about something they all agree on. Who cares? It's not our jobs, as moderators, to diversify discussion or require quality standards. You imply ASK was closed because the staff didn't want a particular viewpoint expressed. Or perhaps because we wanted to make room for alternative opinions. That was not the case. It was closed because of constant instances in which people weren't treating one another respectfully. We have repeatedly explained that all opinions being expressed there are more than welcome to be expressed even now. And the same is true of this thread. I've heard some fantastic ideas in here that I didn't consider. I've defended people with an alternate opinion than my own because I valued what they had to say. Chaos did NOT say that you should stop expressing your thoughts about the book in here. He said that you need to leave if you can't do so without being rude. Edit: Whoops, was apparently typing the same time as Chaos. Wanted to edit to emphasize his point about staying on topic. If we want to discuss this further it should happen elsewhere. Back to Maya...
  23. Jofwu
    This comes up a lot. Presumably the fact that Taldain is mostly an ocean helps keep Dayside cool. Plus, as Calderis said, I suppose you could place it far enough away that Dayside doesn't get cooked anyways.
  24. Jofwu
    Yeah, but that's a weird thing either way. Presumably the border its referring to was some very early stage of their journey, before they boarded a ship for Dayside in the first place. I guess... perhaps an alternate translation is that the "border guards" keep Darksiders from going to Dayside entirely. So when Khriss and her people fled they were chased all the way across the ocean to Dayside. And then Baon killed these border guards who had given them chase.
  25. Jofwu
    My thoughts exactly R'Shara. I don't cross the idea off completely because maybe there's a solution in there that I just don't see... But I lean much more strongly towards thinking he will be trapped again. (for a time) If for some reason he does get away, books 6-10 will be about his return to Roshar. Definitely don't see the series leaving Roshar.
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