DrakeMarshall

my manners are utterly deplorable for which I apologize but it's the truth

this is incredibly valid but you're still Evil you and Aman

Vote Tally JNV (3): Amanuensis, Kasimir, neil the beguiled Stick. (2): Archer, RoyalBeeMage Archer (2): DrakeMarshall, Sart neil the beguiled (1): TheRavenHasLanded Aeoryi (1): Faerie Braids RoyalBeeMage (1): Stick. guys vote Archer, JNV is village edit: unless maybe we should hammer Kas

but what if Kas is the Insider

why drive a bus when you can drive a clowncar that was my philosophy in QF70 side A anyhow

a theory is an educated shot in the dark my favorite kind of shot in the dark

oh yea well I have a theory that u just made that up Vote Tally Stick. (2): Archer, RoyalBeeMage JNV (1): Kasimir Archer (1): DrakeMarshall neil the beguiled (1): TheRavenHasLanded Aeoryi (1): Faerie Braids RoyalBeeMage (1): Stick. Faerie Braids (1): neil the beguiled (tallybot updated to have better patterns for royal, also, added Archer's misspelling of neil to neil's patterns ) (updating the regexp is always gonna be a process as long as people vote the way they do) ANYWAYS point is, nobody really has many votes, so yeah why would the elims feel threatened like ig maybe you can slight v!read Stick off of this but mostly it just means people need to consolidate their votes more probably i am not changing my vote though Archer is woof

glad to see everything's still on fire

SMH i thought you found my post riveting

Archer seems Evil definitely deluded smh well, if u want to self-check your verdict that ur doing your duty to the village by putting it out into the thread as an argument for such, I shan't stand in the way of that i still think u probably dont need to worry so much about doing ur duty, i dont think anyone ever was worried about kas not taking his duty to the village seriously enough, but what do i know im an irresponsible person yeah but is this because that's the best way to do it generally or because it's the way that maximizes the yield-to-effort ratio for the reviewers suppose for the sake of argument that i am insane so did you not spot the bit where I said setting the record straight is a means to an ends or did you get tired of reading or what smhhhh anyways question do you view drifting from the original subject of an argument to be an issue

to be fair, Archer is the first person you put in that list, and guess who I'm voting for I might be wrong, but I'm at least consistent I do think either way this is something that becomes more apparent as the game goes on, the first few hours of C1 likely isn't the best sample size, but wcyd it's the sample size that exists so far, all you can do is update your reads when more data comes in hmmm point I mean I can fill a doc on my lonesome but it sure does help if someone else is there at least a little ig pocketing only goes one way stick drives a hard bargain like that edit: anyways I'd still maintain Stick isn't particularly being quiet rn she's made 11 posts in the first few hours of the game, objectively speaking that's probably a lot the only reason it doesn't feel like a lot is because there's already 4 pages for some reason ...yeah I just checked, this is a bit more posts than she'd done in the last game by this point in time, and I'd also say this time around the posts are a bit more substantive maybe does this point to v!Stick? maybe who knows tbh

Well Question: if someone argued against you, you counter-argued, and then they unvoted you, would the fact that they unvoted you make you feel better like you're right that it doesn't really interface with your original statement about outcomes, that on some level it's even misinterpreting your original statement, but you see why people might press X to doubt, right? because the thing you don't care about is very very adjacent to something you in fact clearly do care about so yes your original statement is technically 100% true but perhaps somewhat misleading edit: like it'd be one thing to say 'i don't care about getting exed i do care about getting accused' but just saying 'i don't care about getting exed' and leaving it at that feels by implication like you are saying you don't really care about the situation you are in when that's somewhat clearly not true, even if that isn't the intent. Idk. Part of communication is reading between the lines, and you could argue Illwei & co is doing it wrong, but yep. yes, but if you don't mean to converge on any answer with them then how do you hope to converge on a true one you can say that you don't have to necessarily converge, that just having someone to argue against enhances your own ability to find the right answer even if they don't ever agree with it and well, there's something there but idk I kinda think if you have someone really well worth arguing with for that purpose, then getting yourself to the Right Answer is probably usually gonna be at least as hard as getting on the same page as that person if agreeing on an answer is way harder than you yourself figuring out what the right one is, then idk it seems debatable whether having the argument is really a very useful part of the equation, seems like you could probably just figure it out on your own and maybe do it faster tbhhh and so, the question of 'am i ready to spend the energy it takes to get on the same page as this person' still feels relevant i think when deciding if you want to have an argument, even if your ultimate goal isn't to convince them but to get at the correct answer I mean, I don't actually see the intrinsic value in doing that? As far as I can tell, this facilitates both the purposes of 1) persuasion and 2) using logical argumentation to arrive at a correct answer, but it isn't really an ends in of itself. Or to put it another way, if you aren't concerned about what others think (which is basically the persuasion aspect) or what you should think (which is basically the arriving at a veredical answer aspect), then why does it matter whether the record is straight. smhhh mr guilty conscience this is what happens when your first question is always "am I doing enough" instead of "should I do more" but yes tbh I'm much more happy just shutting people down without giving reasons lol Well, fair enough, so in that case would you say not wanting to be misrepresented outweighs wanting to be read as village? I'm sure the thread is grateful for all of us thinking out loud tbf if you read the elim doc I'm pretty sure my analysis section for Royal is just '???' idk how to read Royal and I doubt that this will stop being the case this time around hmm maybe Stick is the chosen one who can read Royal

hi obvtown im drake

Well, sure, but I think we'd agree that it likely isn't simply explained by taking exception purely at the way the logic of an argument fits together, because if that were the case, you'd equally pursue such arguments when you saw them made against others. You can certainly maintain on some level that you don't care particularly about the outcome of getting executed while you do care particularly about arguments made against your person. And that's fair. Although at some point, it seems that getting executed comes part-and-parcel with having arguments made against you. You can of course draw a circle around the outcome of dying and say "I don't care about that part" and this would likely be true, but in some manner you likely do take exception to the whole of what "being the person who gets executed" entails. Just not the dying part particularly. They will. We could bet on it I don't think it abrogates asking that question of yourself, but I do think it somewhat abrogates further talking about it with the other person. Depending on how you answer the first question, you've potentially decided that it's not worth the particular effort needed to get on the same page with that person. What is an argument, if not making a particular effort to get on the same page with someone who you currently really aren't? (There are different kinds of arguments to persuade onlookers, but I don't think those are relevant here, as they somewhat presuppose that the onlookers actually care about what's being said ) So yes, you can argue that you've fulfilled your duty, but if you've already decided it's not worth convincing Neil that you're town then why is it worth convincing Neil that you've fulfilled your duty? The only reasons I can think of to answer that is that either you're really just processing the question out loud, or that convincing people of the second thing is more important than convincing people of the first thing. Idk. ...On the other hand, if the answer to 'is it worth it' is 'yes', then on some level this implies you should probably just put in more effort, even if it's the other person's fault, even if you've already done your duty well enough. Because that's kind of what it means for something to be worth it. So, yes. To me, the question 'is it worth it to do more' is in fact more important than 'am I doing enough.' At the end of the day this is partly a difference in priority You are a much more dutiful and conscientous person than I am But I do think my view on the subject is not without merits. i too love your havarti and will also kill for it ##vote neil the eel Archer smells Evil I disagree tbh on the basis that idk if Stick is really any more reticent I think the rest of us are just being louder and also on the basis that being less talky because you have more important crem to work through in the doc is real (edit; yes you've explained why this is less the case for Stick, but 'this correlation does not seem as strong with Stick as with others' != 'there is an anticorrelation in Stick's case' so I still disagree) im village

my puppy senses tell me that Archer smells Evil

close but I'm actually a Pillager I am here to steal everyone's cheese give it to me and nobody needs to get hurt edited to cut down on blatant elim TMI

any time, glad to be of service

I mean I think we're all being a bit deliberately obtuse and combative NGL free not E/E reads all around

I mean, I probably could argue that, tbh Minimally, across the games I've seen there are a lot of dubious D1 takes and votes people have that you don't kick up nearly as much of a fuss over, and statistically I'd say there's a higher incidence of you taking exception to philosophies that happen to have D1 Kas voting as their current endpoint. That is my assessment. but, idk so what?????? all this means is that you aren't a robot and just because someone is biased doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong, anyways so at the end of the day, why would this really count against you well, it's what I said a little further down, about how there's generally not much use in doing it for individual people at least not insofar as the goal is to influence the vote productively, because that's based on the aggregate views of a lot of people, that's like the whole point of voting but anyways I suppose my point with effort and it being a two-way thing is, if you can't communicate with someone, the question to ask is probably 'is it or isn't it worth trying to change that' rather than 'which one of us isn't trying hard enough' so if neil says 'you aren't trying hard enough' and you say 'am too' well sure we could delve into that but deciding whether or not this is even a problem that needs solving is probably more productive which maybe we are on the same page about, it sounds like we may be

sir when have i indicated that im holding you to some standard where you specifically have to be obv V or else im voting for you why is this a thing you are replying @ me about smh >:(. I mean I think the larger point here is there's almost never really a good reason to put in special effort to be readable to 1 specific player if they are good at reading you then they likely don't need it if they are bad at reading you then it likely won't help Zelda game

yessir I am very interested in memes Also I'll make a bet on how you flip sure Although I'll note that the only time I ever offered a bet about my own alignment, I was very extremely Evil take that how you will! oh well u said it was ur pov guess ur a wolf then huh well that'd explain how you know kas is one at least

wait why is that the worst thing isn't that like pretty much the goal nobody is obv V i would happily kill any of you rn well yes but it's a two-way street no? it takes effort to communicate and it takes effort to receive communication arguing over which side isn't trying hard enough is idk

was this supposed to make me it won't work I aint scared of death I aint scared of anything

the village has 2 walking wincons that to varying extents know who the elim team is but if they reveal the elim team they have to reveal themselves also, they don't know the full elim team, there's 1 deepwolf member that they don't know on the other hand, the elims don't know the deepwolf either which can sometimes be just as much of an issue lol anyways with the revised rules for side b I'd say it's pretty much the Informant can reveal and sacrifice to take down the rest of the elim doc, leaving a race between the Contact and Insider, whichever gets the other first wins or they can not do that and just kinda subtly the Informant and the Contact can try to vote off the elims while the Informant tries to look evil in the elim doc frankly I think it's not a very good idea for the Contact to claim at any point because at best they can just reveal what the Informant already knows and if the Informant isn't doing it then why should the Contact, the Informant is more exposed anyway since their in a PoE size of 3 in the elim doc, even if the Contact has all the names of the elims I don't see how it makes sense for the Contact to ever claim imo anyways that's my convoluted summary you are welcome

dawg if your time is so valuable why should you spend your time sharpening your point smhhh at the end of the day, you'll spend ur time how u please and that's pretty much all there is to that anyways if obvtowning was a thing people could reliably do then this wouldn't be much of a game now would it what is this conversation even i will not you can't make me