Toaster Retribution

I think that Adolin actually does change Kaladins perception by being nice. Adolin believes Kaladin about Amaram, and imprisons himself to show solidarity (and that is a merit for him). He doesn’t do an Amaram when Kaladin rejects his Shards, which I think is incredibly important. They work together to protect Dalinar after the arena fight as well. Kaladin also sees how he treats low ranked servants with kindness (he allows them to try his helmet on) and watches him save the prostitute. All these acts makes Kaladin realize that Adolin isn’t a horrible person. He realizes that about Shallan and Dalinar as well, and those realizations are important in removing his bias against lighteyes. As for Shallan, she needs someone who is kind to her, without being too broken. Kaladin has his own troubles, and cant really be that person. Jasnah is her teacher. Her soldiers are basically her employees. Adolin is a good person close to her who can brighten up her day a bit, listen, and be there for her. She needs him, I think.

. First off, I second Chaos above. I am #supportadolin but I do not want to make anyone feel singled out. My purpose is not to attack anyone. I do want to respond to those who quoted me, so that I shall do: @SLNC In alethi politics I would say that there is self defense. Considering that alethi politics is tightly related to war and killing, and considering that Sadeas is a person who has killed thousands to get his way before, I would say that it is viable to speak of self defense in this case. And when Adolin killed him, he never had one thought about improving Dalinars political position. @insert_anagram_here I apologize. I never meant to tell you what you could and could not like. I wanted to explain why I think Adolin is an inspirational and important character despite seeming like a plain figure. @Sedside Adolin helped change Kaladins perception on lighteyes because he was a good person. He has helped Shallan by being a good person as well. And the Sadeas thing was not something that he would have done if Sadeas hadn’t provoked him by threatening his family. If Sadeas had said ”what up Adolin, nice tower you found” or something, and then walked off, Adolin wouldn’t have done what he did. He hates Sadeas for a reason, after all. He knows what an eel he is, and what a threat he is to the Dalinar, and the other members of the Kholin family.

What Sadeas did was the political version of rushing you with an axe, screaming -die, you bastard!-. Adolin acted in self-defense.

I think we do want real people though. Real people in extraordinary positions and world. That is good fantasy (for me). And that is why we care about Brandons characters: because they feel real. And that is why I think that Adolin is important. Because he shows that you dont need to be extraordinary to be a hero. He is inspiring without being unachieveable. @SLNC Adolin killed Torol because he was about to attempt bringing down Dalinar, the Kholin family and the future of humanity on Roshar. Was it morally correct? I don’t know. Was it an evil act? I dont think so. He did it partially because he couldn’t control himself, which isn’t bad, and partially out of a desire to protect his family, and innocent people. Torol kills to improve his own position, and gain power. The motive makes the man. And basically every Alethi relished in killing because of Odiums influence. That isn’t unique for Adolin, and not to be blamed on him. He also stopped enjoying it in WoR.

I cant make chicken curry. I can probably make rice though. And I can be an okay cook even if I can’t make chicken curry. Rice and fish sticks work. I think that is the point of Adolin. Most people in real life aren’t chicken curry. Most are rice, or mashed potatoes. And Adolin is the character that shows that thats fine. Rice can be a great meal. You don’t need to have a super-tragic backstory or an amazing redemption arc to be a hero. Being a good guy is enough. I think that is what Adolin represents, and that is why he is important. Also, I love your food metaphor.

Heh, Chaos is looking at this thread whilst I’m typing. Adolin is a simple but controversial guy... Anyways, I like Adolin. A lot. He is a nice guy, and a very important part of what makes all the other main characters grow. I think that is an underrated aspect of him. How he affects and changes the life of Shallan, Kaladin and Dalinar by basically just being decent and trying his best. Brandon is a lot about positive messages, and he likes to write about the good parts of human beings, not the bad ones. I think that comes into play with Adolin. He changes people and the world by being a good guy. He doesn’t need magic to do that, or a very troubled past, or visions, or being an outcast in society. He just needs to be Adolin. I know that a lot of people say that Adolin just gets stuff without having to fight for them, with Maya being the prime example. He revives her because he happens to be nice. That is really not the case. If he revives her, he does that because he chooses to be nice. That is not always easy. We see Adolin struggle with how to be, how to act, who to be. He chooses to be the good person he is. He is not born great, just as Amaram, Mr T or whoever isn’t born evil. It is the choices that matter, and I think Adolin demonstrates that. And then, he also has his fear of not matching expectations, his fierce loyalty to his family, his temper, his love for dueling and his love for Renarin. He is a rather complex guy. And I realize people might dislike him because he is, in some aspects, too perfect. Thats fine. I dislike Jasnah for that same reason. But I think saying that he is a flat character without an arc or personality, who gets everything served to him, is a stretch.

I don’t want to see Mraize and the Ghosties siding with Odium or Dalinar. I am more interested in them as a third party playing both sides. I also don’t want Nale to die. No breakup between Shallan and Adolin. I don’t want to see Jasnah ruling flawlessly. Also, dont bring back dead characters.

You are probably on to something. Combinations of Surges can lead to incredible stuff (like blowing up your own planet for instance). That Stonewards can construct walls is not at all a stretch.

I like it a lot. I am sad that we never got Highprince of War so this can be a good replacement. It also teases war all over, which I hope will be the case. Odium vs Dalinar, Venlis potential revolution, Everstorms, a battle at the Peaks... crem will go down in this book. (though Amaram wont be there to see it :-( )

Edgli is apparently not worried about Odium, despite the fact that he has killed three Shards, and despite her knowledge of who Rayse was before taking up Odium. How can she not be troubled? Does she have some kind of strategy or trick she can use on Odium if he comes for her?

I don’t think Amaram would have sent Kaladin away into possible death if he thought he was a Radiant. For several reasons: 1. Amaram wants glory. If he found a Radiant he would try to bring them into the Sons of Honor, take credit for it, and befriend the Radiant. 2. If he thought Kaladin a Radiant, he should remember what he looked like. But he saw Kaladin several times without recognizing him in book two. 3. Amaram genuinely wants to stop the Desolation, once it happens. Risking Kaladins death in slavery is directly counterproductive to this goal. It is an interesting idea, and I have never seen it before, but I doubt it, sadly.

I was actually bored with Raodens story. I really liked Hrathen and Sarene but I wanted to skip Raoden a lot of the time. He just felt bland compared to the rest. I think that his character is a ddefenitive proof of Brandons growth when it comes to building characters. Compare him to Kaladin, Kelsier or others, and he falls flat.

Brandon does have similar plots sometimes, and similar characters. Inspiring people in horrible conditions seems to be a recurring theme. Kelsier and his speeches to the skaa in Mistborn is somewhat similar. Personally, I think Kaladins story is better than Raodens though. Kaladin is a much better character.

In Ragnarok, Thor fighting Hulk was known ages before the movie came out. Marvel even showed the Hulks armor at a con. So I don’t think the trailer spoiled anything. The reason for why the movie keeps it a secret is basically so that Thor can be surprised.

Yeah... I didn’t notice that...

I do think that Vivenna is at least displeased with Vasher. He has a tendency to displease people he knows, for good reasons. Her wanting to kill him might be a stretch but I dont think we should decide what she is up to based on her attitude. She seems calm about most things. And she might also be aware of where Vasher is already, which is why she doesnt ask Kaladin about him.

There is only one Herald close to Mr T at the moment, so that excludes Dova being a Herald at all.

I think it is Battar. There is virtually no reason for Brandon to have Mr T lie about which of the unseen Heralds he has working for him. That WoB has always been uncertain (think it is from a book we never got a picture of) so it is possible that there is some misunderstanding around it. Accoording to in-book info Battar is in Kharbranth, and we dont know where Paliah is. Also, Kalak being the nervous guy at the party is very likely, but not confirmed as far as I know.

Nightblood is before SA. Isn’t that just assumptions from fans though, that Yesteel won’t be around anymore?

I never said he was. I said he speaks of himself as Passion.

I am interested in what Vivenna will do to Vasher when she finds him. Bring him back to someone (Yesteel? Susebron?) or kill him?

I was thinking, and when I was thinking, I come up with stuff. Not necessarily mind-boggling stuff, but still. Here is what I came up with this time: Odium is constantly offering to take peoples pain, and speaks of himself as Passion. Passion is a word related to feeling. Coincidentally, pain is a feeling. What if the name Voidbringer (or Voidbinding for that matter) comes from the fact that Odium takes your feelings, and you become void. Empty. That feels like a description of Moashs current state by the way. Without hope, without feelings. So, is this something new? Something old? Good? Bad? You tell me!

He said it would take a couple of months I think. Looks like its faster than expected.

Warbreaker and Edgedancer are recommended to read before OB. You can read OB without them as well though, but there might be easter eggs that you are missing, and things regarding a specific character in OB might seem wierd without having read Edgedancer. All in all, both are good to read, but not obligatory. Also, you can freely spoil all Stormlight books in the Stormlight section (avoid spoilers in thread titles though). So watch out, as this section (and the Cosmere and Cosmere Q&A books) will contain spoilers for Oathbringer and Edgedancer, without warning or spoiler tags.

Personal opinion regarding the Oscars: Infinity War should have gotten a Best Picture nod. It is that good. I am happy for Black Panther though. Also, Mortal Engines should have gotten a special effects nod.