stonetwotwo

Thanks for the input, WitSpren. You remained on topic without wondering too far into the realms of Adolin’s plot. I’ve was thinking that merely saying the ten oaths is too easy for a spren to be fully revived. This might not necessarily be the case. Like WitSpren mentioned most people don’t even live by the first oath let alone reaching a point of saying enough oaths to actually bring a spen to consciousness. Couple this with the fact that spren and person could be horribly mismatched it would make for a very difficult task. Then again I have this nagging feeling that there has to be more to the process than merely reciting some oaths. We’ve seen some odd things about spren, like being fixed when measured. Have the spren been ‘measured’ before being abandoned? Cast as swords forever. Can they be unmeasured? How do you close the box and put the cat back in a state of being that’s both dead and alive… if you catch my meaning. Can someone think of an odd trait that might lead to or aid in a revival? Off topic: It made me wonder. How many Knights Radiant ever managed to say all ten oaths? Is there a discussion about this? It would make for a very interesting hierarchy and power struggle within each order, especially within the non-honour bound orders.

Ah, I forgot about the gem being added by accident, but is that the whole story? I'll have to go read that section again. Thanks for the good comments, Maxal. I'll need to do some more reading.

Lots of good thoughts. Timezones differences means that I'm sleeping when you're all talking. My original thoughts followed those of shardbearer. But Jondesu brings up an interesting point. This got me thinking. Perhaps when people first started ‘taming’ shardblades after the Radiants abandoned them the realised men could form a bond with the blade. The bond would then have been tied directly to the person. In order to break that bond the person would have needed to be killed or would have had to discard the blade. High ranking people would probably have wanted to control blades and therefore discovered the way of inserting a gem into the blade and thereby having control over the bond to some degree. Therefore, I agree that the gemstone will first need to be destroyed. Thereby creating a clean slate where a shardbearer could bond directly with the spren and not through a gemstone. That could be true. The orders might not have shared words with people, but they could, alongside a spren, at least guide a new Radiant towards the proper oaths. Adoline won’t have any such additional support. I agree with this thought. With all the radiants forming around Adolin I can’t imagine that know will learn/tell him that shardblade are really dead spren. Well unless Sanderson learned a few too many lesson from WoT where no one ever tells anyone anything. I can see a part of Adolin’s future arc revolving around the almost impossible task/quest of freeing the spren in his blade. This might become even more central to him if he is banished due to the crime of murdering/executing Sadeas. I had another thought. If a sharbearer can hear the screams of a Spren then it means they can actually hear a spren talk. The bond might just need to be repaired far enough for the spren’s pain to subside enough to be able to talk. Their memories would also need to return as spren seem to lose these quite easily. I’m not saying this is so, but there might be a way to start tapping into the Spren help hotline after a certain amount of progress has been made, the progress is just a lot further than a normal bond.

Thanks Maxal. You've expanded nicely on why the path to reviving a spren is nearly impossible. I was thinking along similar lines, but didn't take so much into account as you. The one reason I think that there might be different oaths for reviving a spren is that if someone has already progressed to being a full Radiant of a certain order then it would make reviving a spren relatively easy or easier at least as they could guide someone. Though Sanderson might also have meant that it would be very difficult to revive a spren at the moment, perhaps once the secret formula is discovered it will become a lot easier to revive spren. That begs another question. How nice will the newly revived spren be? Will they be grateful or hateful?

Two maybe three questions: -To revive a dead shardblade do you have to revive the spren physically, spiritually and cognitively? Are the 10 heartbeats part of the physical revival? -Are trel and/or trelagism the missing links to space travel?

Another thought, since ten is an important number. Reviving a Spren might include the following: -10 Heartbeats to revive the body. -10 Oaths to revive the spirit. -10 Emotions/Feelings (?) to revive the cognitive. I say emotions because emotions and feelings seem to summon spren from the cognitive realm when people are angry, in pain, etc. Of course these oaths and emotions will need to be very specific to the type of spren trying to revived. The same as each order of the radiants having different oaths. However, the oaths might also be different to the normal oaths as the task is not supposed to be easy. Considering difficulty, perhaps some of the emotions/feelings might involve feeling the spren's pain and overcoming it. Since the spren are shouting it might be that such a task is almost inhumanly difficult. Only a person with an intense desire to free a spren would be able to cope with such emotions/pain. This might be where Adolin can succeed as I can imagine him being able to take a lot of punishment in order to save something he cares deeply about. Since he already talks to his sword I can imagine trying everything to revive a spren once he learns that it is a trapped/deadish spren.

I skimmed through older threads about this topic, but couldn't find something similar. I might need to improve my searching though and sorry if I am restating something. Revival is a task said to be very difficult by Sanderson. Working my way through the WoR reread I actually tried to do some thinking. My attention was caught when I thought about four things, none of the four are earth shattering just putting thoughts on paper. First: A shardbearer needs 10 heartbeats to summon a shardblade into the ‘physical’ realm. Second: Syl states that ‘The delay is primarily something of the dead’. Three: Renarin hears screams from his shardblade. This implies a spren in ‘physical’ pain that might be due still being separated from its ‘spiritual’ and ‘cognitive’ parts. Fourth: It takes a week or more to ‘physically’ bond a shardblade. Now putting these together you get a ‘dead’ spren being revived into the ‘physical’ word by ten ‘physical’ heartbeats after a lengthy ‘physical’ bond, but not bringing the ‘spiritual’ or ‘cognitive’ parts of the spren with it. Has Brandon been teasing us with the first of three or more steps to fully reviving a Spren? If you follow this logic what could possibly needed to bond with the ‘spiritual’ and ‘cognitive’ parts of a spren to fully revive it? I am then assuming that forming the other bonds would be much more difficult and almost impossible (i.e. try spending a week with a spren in the cognitive realm if you can’t even get there.) My biggest problem with this thought is that when not bonded the blade resides in the ‘physical’ world.

Hi,I live near Cape Town. With the internet the world is really becoming a small. I hope you are enjoying it here!

Ok, but Sazed did know about the religion, so there had to be contact before the Final Empire. Trell, and perhaps his other half, might have been on the planet before. Has there been other information about how how Sazed knew of Trelagism? As far as I know he had no off world knowledge before becoming Harmony. It does seem like Harmony is being set up to have a little scuffle with something and a new/returning shard would bring/return powers to Scadrial.

Yeah, perhaps not the best title. Titles are not a strength of mine. I am more interested in other shards on the world contributing to the magic system in a new manner that enables people of the planet to advance into the space age. Perhaps how the religion holds the secret to determining where to travel to, what stars to visit, etc. Moogle, at the end of Shadows of Self there is a new metal that is neither of Ruin or Preservation. Perhaps there is not a Shard, but another godlike metal is on the planet. Am I mistaken about the metal?

I just read Defending Elysium, thanks I forget about it. I found the story interesting, basic, but a lot of food for thought. I guess that's what short stories are often about. WoK started slowly but improved. WoR really got my thinking, but the reread on tor has been a nice eye opener as I tend to read too fast and miss half of what's important.

Sorry, didn't think about spoilers. I've updated my post to include tags. I'll also post this in the general cosmere theories section.

I posted this in the a Mistborn thread and it was suggested to make this it's own topic. I've just finished Shadows of Self and became intrigued by Trell. In the old religions, Trelagism, the people beleived the night was sacred and they mapped the stars, a direct link to space travel perhaps. Brandon also mentioned that a piece of the space travel puzzle is missing. Could the missing piece be the powers of a third Shard since there could be three shards on the planet? The myths also say that Trell had a brother, linked to the sun, so perhaps there is a fourth shard on the planet. If someone has discussed this before then please let me know.

Tough question as each book/series offers something different. My least favourite cosmere would probably be Elantris, but probably just because his writing still needed a lot of improvement. I enjoyed the premise of Warbreaker, but it still lacked the refinement of his later books. Mistborn as a whole was great, but The Final Empire is the best of the trilogy in my opinion. The last two never quite lived up-to the first, maybe it's because I enjoyed the development of Vin and the unfolding mystery. The novellas were good reads. The Stormlight books are his best works to date. I think he really comes into his own with the series and I look forward to the third book as more and more cosmere details come to light. For non-cosmere I liked the Rhithmatist more than Steelheart and Firefight. The whole magic system is just so much more interesting. Legion was fun, but nothing amazing. There's more, but I think this summarizes my thoughts.

Hi all, I've been lurking about for years and obviously a long time Sanderson fan. I admit to only finding out about him from the WoT, but here in South Africa we didn't really have any of his books in store until after taking over from Robert Jordan. At least not any I could find. Don't know if I'll post much as I generally tend to listen more than talking (introvert). I do, however, hope to be able to contribute now and then. Cheers!