Arraenae
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Good bye, ginormous post I was making. Hope you enjoy your stay in the refresh monster's stomach. Hello, ineloquent summarization. Lopen. Aman, I don't quite trust you to truthfully scan the person who is accusing you. Sorry, but I'm suspicious of both of you. Don't count on my action tonight. I don't have the brainpower to deal with the fourth coming of Outed Eliminator Aman or the first coming of Outed Eliminator Lopen. Unfortunately, that's inevitable at this point. If Aman is Jeskeri, I claim first torch. If Lopen is Jeskeri, I claim his stuff. (Has he even RPed his character having stuff? Don't care very much. Just toss out the sacrifical knives and give me the rest please.)
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What do you mean by "successful attack?"
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If another CSP attacks the same target you do, you won't conclusively prove that you really are a CSP. And if the player you're claiming to attack doesn't die, then maybe they had protection and it's the other CSP's fault that they didn't attack the same person you did. Could you give us a list of people you're thinking of targetting, so we can track your kill? I understand that you won't want your kill to be blocked, but anything would be helpful. A list of five or so people ought to do.
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@The Only Joe, if someone is attacked by both the CSP and the JP, how is the kill listed in the writeup?
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Lopen.
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Well, that went rather overwhelmingly in Aman's favor. Thanks for letting us know you exist, other Duke. And Ren was a citizen. We have a horrible track record this game.
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Um, SD? Aman and Ren are trying to get each other lynched. If both of them are Jeskeri, that is a gutsy move.
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Can you point out specifically what these things are, either in one of his current posts or a post from a game where he was an eliminator?
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What does evil!Aman sound like?
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I like the linework, and how sinister you made the Inquisitor look. -
The attack on Aman isn't alignment indicative by itself, and a lot of evidence seems unverifiable (Aman's multiple PMs). I think it's weird that Wilson protected Aman, because she apparently is a stickler for rules, and Joe was online to answer questions at the time. Also, Wilson said that she hates codes, so I doubt she and Aman communicated at all during the Night. Elodin didn't say he was going to attack Aman until the Night, so I doubt that during the Day, Aman convinced Wilson that he needed double protection AND that the Legionnaire only protects from one kill attempt. I also trust Aman more because so many different people, some who are dead villagers, got village reads on him. Confirmed good is not confirmed right, but when a lot of different people say that they all have a strong village read on the same person, I trust that person a little more. I don't think Kipper must be an eliminator because he discredited Maill's list. Maill's list is wrong. He made up claims, made up roles, and tweaked the list to maximize his fun. I claimed Neutral beggar to Maill, but he only put me down as a normal beggar. Why? He didn't want to take the joy from my (false) neutrality. I'd rather ignore the list, unless I want to give myself headaches trying to out-mindgame Maill.
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Did anyone here use their role to target a player other than Aman last Night? Has anybody's actions ever been redirected to a player they didn't originally target?
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Actually, we do lose a vote. Let's say Stink just wants to survive, or is village. We lynch him. The Serial Killer attacks that Night. Now we're down at least one more member. We're one person closer to death. You said it yourself -- we need as many town votes as possible, before the situation gets worse. If we lynch Stink when there's no real suspicion on him, we allow the SK and Jeskeri one more Night to kill people. I find your post pretty suspicious. This sounds like something an eliminator might do to get us to waste a lynch, and maybe spare their own teammate. If you have evidence that Stink is neutral-evil or an eliminator, I'm all ears. I won't lynch Stink because Joe and his brother chose to give him a neutral role.
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What did you expect? We haven't even passed the 24 hour mark yet. You still have about 33 hours to make your case about Aman. Who knows? Maybe I'll go home, tally up everybody's arguments, and decide that Aman has duped everyone and must be killed. The lynch isn't set in stone yet. We're still open to new info and arguments.
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I believe Lopen's CSP claim. D2, I noted Straw's death in our PM and said that a villager died for taking the game more seriously. Then I asked Lopen if he really was a citizen. Lopen said that he unhappy enough and I didn't need to rub it in. Fitting thing for a CSP who just killed a villager to say. Either Aman or Lopen is a Jeskeri, I think. I don't feel like wading through each of their arguments right now (typing this on mobile in a moving car is giving me enough of a headache as it is). I'll look at things later. I think Ren is suspicious for saying so quickly than Aman must be Jeskeri, that he must have organized Wilson's, Magestar's, Jaime's and Elodin's deaths.
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Let's assume that Aman was arrested by a legionnaire and attacked by the JP. Someone was saved and Magestar, a legionnaire died. Fits the hypothesis. A Chay-shan practitioner, Elodin, died. He mentioned that he might attacked Aman. Fits the hypothesis. Two bodyguards, Wilson and Jaime, protected Aman. That's the weird part. Why would two bodyguards protect someone who was arrested? Maybe they didn't know that person would be arrested. Wilson and Magestar were both scanned by a Dula. However, they might not have been coordinating actions, so Wilson might not have known that Magestar had arrested Aman. She also might have known but didn't trust Magestar to actually arrest him. Jaime might have thought that Aman wasn't getting legionnaired and needed protection. Why would the JP attack someone who from the very start of the game said that he would be arrested every Night? There's a chance that Aman might be bluffing and not be arrested. The JP might only kill Aman, especially if nobody else targets him because they think he's arrested. There's also a chance that Aman might be arrested. The JP might only kill the legionnaire arresting him. Last Night, Magestar claimed that he was in a system Aman set up, with several players. Wilson said she had weak village reads on Magestar and Jaime, and they all targetted the same arrested person. Aman, if you're a villager and really do have a system based around protecting you, your organizing skills suck. No philosopher kill this Night. However, two people still died to non-JP causes. @TheMightyLopen, if you really are a Chay-Shan Practitioner, who did you kill these past few Nights?
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@The Only Joe, what were the specific circumstances that would reveal the Jeskeri practitioner role? What is a Jeskeri acolyte? Can Bodyguards protect against Jeskeri practitioner kills? Can Legionnaires protect against them? Are there items in this game? What happens if the Jeskeri practitioner targets someone who is arrested? The Jeskeri do not have a conversion or a sacrificial kill. However, they are eliminators, and they exist. If we had accepted Elodin's plan, the Jeskeri would have gained a huge advantage. I don't know how likely an alignment obfuscater is, but I have a feeling that an unknown alignment obfuscater in an unknown eliminator team would be imbalanced. Elodin was a Chayshan practitioner, so if his aligment was truly village, he had the means to carry out his attack. If he was village, I have no idea what he plan was supposed to do. Phish for reactions? Also, Chayshan practitoner and Jeskeri practitioner sound very similar. Both are ways to access the Dor, both end in "practioner", and both are kill roles. @Renegade, How do you know Aman was protected and attacked?
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Emphasis mine. Who are you talking about?
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Hence, we kill Elodin to prove the Jeskeri's existence (or lack of it). The writeup does not lie.
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Anelin blinked. The girl folding a napkin into some ridiculous crown did not seem to be the same one who'd just screamed at the mention of pancakes after ten. Is she mentally ill? Anelin wondered. Or just putting on a friendly face? Anelin picked up a biscuit and crammed it into her mouth. She chewed, swallowed, and reached for another biscuit. "These biscuits are quite good," she mumbled around her food. "Did you bake them, Naara?" As she waited for Naara to answer, she finished her second and third biscuits. Maybe Anelin could put up with her cousin, if only for the good food. Burnt, Anelin is willing to be bribed with biscuits if Naara doesn't explode again.
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Said Dula could be nonexistant, a Jeskeri themselves, a neutral, an eliminator, a neutral-evil, roleblocked, killed, unwilling to scan you, or in various other disagreeable states. The Dula would only be able to tell if you were an eliminator. (And, well, I wouldn't put it past Joe to have people who can fool Dula scans.) On the other hand, the writeup will always be accurate. The writeup will give us alignment, role, full specifics of your faction, and will allow us to pester Joe with as many questions about the Jeskeri as he can answer. I don't know about you, but I prefer the writeup to the Dula as a source of information.
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This post from D3 jumped out at me as being slightly defensive of Magestar. Dula scan =/= village. Dula scan = non-eliminator, if the scanner tells the truth. I say we kill Elodin to reveal the Jeskeri. Why? Several reasons. First, Joe will not answer any questions about secret roles until they are revealed. He won't answer anything we ask about Jeskeri until they become officially known to us. Second, Joe will not post clarifications to questions inthread if it conflicts with misinformation people deliberately spread around. He also will neither confirm nor deny WoJs that people claimed he made. I suspect that Joe will not answer questions if it conflicts with misinformation people deliberately spread around, inthread or in a GM PM. @The Only Joe, can you confirm this? It is very easy for the Jeskeri to spread misinformation about themselves, and it is easier for them to spread that misinformation if they aren't officially known to us. Tl;dr: kill Elodin so it's harder for the Jeskeri to trick us.
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How would a village/Jeskeri alliance work?
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I thought that method would work, because it worked on me in LG21. Looking back, I tunnelled way too hard on Silver and didn't try to consider the situation from a Village!Silverblade perspective. That's something I'll need to work on next time. I know you don't have much reason to trust anything coming from me, but I don't expect to live to see the next Night. I might as well spend this time cramming in last thoughts. I started out as a village beggar, not a neutral one. However, I claimed neutral to almost everyone I roleswapped with. Why? Because I wanted to try phishing, specifically the type of phishing Joe did on me in LG21. He was a villager who claimed to be neutral who tricked me into making a frustration claim. I thought that if I pretended to be a neutral beggar, I might be able to get information out of the eliminators that they never would give to a villager. It worked, kind of. Before he left, Maill told me about a faction called the Jeskeri, which have a conditional kill. Every time they kill somebody, a Jeskeri gets outed. The Jeskeri win when they sacrifice the last non-Jeskeri player. Maill told me to do what I wanted with the information. I gave it to Wilson, Orlok, Amanuensis, and now all of you. I don't know how true this is, but I see no reason for Maill to fabricate a faction and give the information to a "neutral". Obviously, pretending to be a neutral so I could steal information from an eliminator Silverblade didn't work. Silverblade wasn't an eliminator. I think the eliminator(s) let the Silverblade lynch go through because they knew that once you found Silverblade was village, everybody would want to kill me, thus getting rid of two villagers. Later this Night, I'm going to go through the thread again and take a look at the people who voted on Silverblade, or declared no opinion either way. If I survive this Night, I'll become a Bodyguard. I can't use a role on the Night I take it, so if someone wants to kill me, I'm vulnerable this Night. If I somehow survive this Night and tomorrow's lynch, I'll probably protect myself until I die. I know I'm a villager, even if I led everybody on a wild goose hunt and have no way to prove my alignment without dying.
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Quite interesting how that's the third lynch attempt you've survived in three cycles, Elenion. I don't think that Duke vote came from someone whose win con involves killing a lot of people. Without the Duke, three people would have died -- Len and Silverblade from the lynch, and Antgrgmn from the inactivity filter. With the Duke, only two people have died. Note: disregard the entire bit above if Len is the Duke, or Len is an alignment with teammates. I know that I look very suspicious right now, since Silverblade turned out to be a Noble. (Joe, you lied when you said no villager would dodge that question. ) I blundered big time, and I don't know if there's a way to fix my mistake.
