KidWayne

Got to do what you can to stay alive...

So you liked Vivenna, huh? LOL! I liked this. Good job.

You said that you "think the Everstorm was like a one time thing." The first sentence of chapter 4 says that the Everstorm was making its second appearance.

So, let's all post our theories on Dalinar's involvement in the death of his first wife. I've seen everything from "He killed her" to "he was involved" or even more indirect like "he made a decision that ultimately led to her death." Well here's where I'm putting my money: I think Dalinar called someone's bluff - perhaps by slaying a person he believed to be a decoy - and he slayed his wife directly. Upon discovering that he was wrong and the decoy was actually his wife, he participated in a cover-up (perhaps at Gavliar's suggestion) to explain away her death. Adolin & Renarin are okay because they believe the cover-up story. Dalinar is able to be a good person now because erasing his wife from his memory cleaned him of his guilt. So, what do you guys think?

I agree that Sadeas' murder will come into play eventually. You're probably right about how Dalinar's current/recent actions are providing his political enemies with plenty of political ammunition for the brewing conflict. However, in a time of war, "might makes right" has more validity than usual. In that regard, Dalinar packs quite a heavy punch with the might of the growing ranks of Knights Radiant at his disposal. Also, he seems committed to bringing men together in his conscious efforts (regardless of how much strife he stirs up by accident). Don't forget that he promises Elhokar, “I have things to discuss with you. Plans that you might appreciate." He also re-commits himself to the task of uniting all of Roshar in chapter 2, "To face the Desolation, I will find a way to do what my ancestor the Sunmaker failed to do through conquest. I will unify Roshar.” I suspect that he will set himself up as an emperor - a king of kings if you will - under Uruthiru. That way, Elhokar keeps his throne and Alethkar becomes a vassal-kingdom under Dalinar and the Knights Radiant. So, Elhokar is right; Dalinar is taking what he wants/needs to accomplish his calling (i.e. to unite Roshar). You're also probably right that Dalinar will be resisted with political intrigue and accusations of everything from insanity, heresy, and lust for power to hypocrisy. However, in the end it won't matter when the Voidbringers attack in force. None of Dalinar's detractors will know what to do and they will turn to him (and his access to supernatural powers) in desperation. In the end, we are all united in our desire to survive; so, when faced with an existential threat, might makes right.

@Edonidd You should read Chapter 4 of Oathbringer. You can find it here: https://www.tor.com/2017/09/05/oathbringer-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-4-6/#comment-684025 It might clear some things up for you. Of course, you should read the prologue and first three chapters, too. Here is the index what has been released for Oathbringer so far: https://www.tor.com/series/oathbringer/

Well, I think it could be transforming the willing parshmen into Smokeform based on the songs from WoR. I say that since it allows them to hide from (and spy on) men; also, it is a lost "form of power" and Stormform is no longer needed since the Everstorm has been summoned.

@Spicker I really like the way you're thinking. The changes in Shallan's dad correlate quite nicely with his Ghost blood involvement, don't they?

I'm uncomfortable with all the praise of murder-as-an-act-of-righteousness I see on this thread. The right thing to do would have been to charge Sadeas with the crimes of treason and sedition and then bring him to justice in a court of law. That's legitimate authority properly exercised. Sadeas' influence would have waned quickly after it became general knowledge that Stormlight healed Lopen's amputated arm. His efforts to re-start the back-biting and political strife would have come to an abrupt end on their own without murder. Assassination & murder are wrong not because they cause death, but because they elevate one person's (or one group's) proclamation of justice above the law and above the recognized authorities. It's a self-righteous act; it's also indefensible when challenged. At the end of the day, murder flows from hatred. When that hatred is directed at appropriate targets, we can call it justice (as many are apparently doing with Adolin's murder of Sadeas). However, what is or is not an appropriate target - as well as who can be trusted to carry out such justice - is a super slippery slope. Adolin is not a capital "G" god. I wouldn't trust anyone other than God (or some other being with omniscience & an unshakable commitment to morality/justice) to unilaterally exercise that kind of authority.

So, from the Oathbringer prologue, we have some new information. Specifically, we now know what the motivations of each of the three men trying to "unite them" might be (based on the instructions obtained from the Almighty's vision-diary). Gavilar & Dalinar each received the visions from the Stormfather, and Taravangian heard about the visions from Gavilar. We are directly told that Gavilar intended to "unite them" with a threat of danger. We can infer that Dalinar is determined to "unite them" through common purpose & a sense of honor/duty. We can also infer that Taravangian is attempting to "unite them" with deception, political conquest, and esoteric methods (e.g. death rattles, Nightwatcher-granted super intellect, manipulating a truthless) Obviously, Dalinar is the only one of the three who is going about his efforts at unification in a manner consistent with the first oath of the Knights Radiant. However, my thoughts go from this observation to the secret societies. We have the Diagram society, the Sons of Honor, and the Ghostbloods. Of those three groups, two are represented in this group of men (Gavilar → Sons of Honor & Taravangian → the Diagram society). We also have two of the three shards whose power influenced the formation of two of the societies (Honor → Sons of Honor & Cultivation → the Diagram society). So, where do you all think the Ghostbloods fit into all of this? Acknowledging that it's pure conjecture, likely coincidental, and that correlation does not equal causation; is there any chance the Ghostbloods have a connection to Odium? Wild Cosmere theory: The Ghostbloods do a lot of world-hopping. If the Ghostbloods are connected to Odium, do you think there is a chance that Kelsier might have created a link between Roshar and the Southern Scadrians via Iyatil? What about the possibility that a chance encounter between Kelsier & Odium (or a more mundane connection via the Ghostbloods) is influencing the "other god" goings-on on Scadrial in the Wax & Wayne era?

I totally got Ninja'ed on this post. I offer my reading notes as proof of Hoid's theory on novelty at the end of WoR... (the "vibrant" note is in on the lower left side of the page)

So, isn't Bandon's statement that the vessel of any shard is no longer human kind of obvious? My first impression was to think that Odium's vessel (i.e. Rayse) has been transformed or corrupted into something inhuman, but I wonder whether BS was just trying to say that as a shard-holder he is no longer human. If you think that Rayse has been transformed into something alien, I'd love to hear why you think so.

I figured it was a creative way to spell Dinah. I pronounced it like Dee-Nah. The others posting above are probably correct, though. D'artagnan is pronounced Dar-tan-yun and not Dee-art-an-yun.

I was just about to propose this theory, but I found this in a search. Sorry to resurrect a two and a half year old thread, but now that Arcanum Unbounded is out and so many more people have read Sixth of the Dusk I think this deserves a second look. I thought the "Jeksonofnone" part was a dead giveaway seeing as how it follows the traditional Drominad/First of the Sun naming system. Even if this was an Easter egg for WoK Prime, I don't see that as being mutually exclusive to the possibility that Jeksonofnone is an aviar.

I think I finally understand where you're coming from. Your argument is that energy isn't a substitute for investiture; I agree. I was non-transitively saying that investiture could be a substitute for energy (even if the reverse is not true). My logic: 1. Electromagnetic energy can provide power and/or do work. 2. Investiture can access magical energy. → Investiture can provide power and/or do work; therefore, investiture can be considered as a form of non-electromagnetic energy Your logic: 1. Investiture is a source of energy 2. Energy is not a source of investiture → Investiture is not energy My model works because - while you cannot turn energy into investiture - you can use investiture to obtain energy. Lift is mysteriously converting food into stormlight/investiture which is then transmitted to her cells. Her cells are then able to use stormlight to power cell functions instead of electricity derived from chemical reactions. I can't answer how food becomes stormlight, but I have proposed a model for how stormlight could be used instead of glucose to fuel Lift's body. In other words I didn't attempt to explain how Lift would metabolize into investiture so much as I was explaining how she could metabolize energy from investiture. Perhaps the way she obtains investiture from food is form-based; where the molecular structure of glucose is a form which allows her to draw a prescribed amount of stormlight via Lift's connection to Cultivation.

@Kaymyth I wasn't too terribly serious. I was spit balling on what could be achieved with an app. I'm aware of how unlikely it would be to get everyone to agree to that level of integration. I even like your idea about redirecting much of this to DragonSteel. The attractiveness of 17thShard.com (from a business perspective) is the number of users and the level of engagement. I don't expect that any of my arguments would be palatable. Hence, I didn't expect that my post would do much to affect the stress levels of Chaos. I just saw a challenge (to offer a good reason to develop an app) in his post and decided to take a crack at it. This website/community is awesome as is. I'd likely hate most of my own proposed changes.

OK, Chaos here's my best shot: The best argument for an app is integration with Team Sanderson. You'll likely hate this idea, because this site is your baby; however, an app would allow http://brandonsanderson.com and Brandon's publisher to offer in-app purchases that would allow access to http://store.brandonsanderson.com as well as other means to purchase Sanderson's books and merchandise. You could use the app to consolidate and publish Brandon's Reddit and Twitter activity as well. If integrated with his site, the app could notify you of any in-person signings/appearances near you. Notifications could also be used for new releases with one-click purchase options (with a cut going to the app developer). I would have loved that option for the White Sand graphic novel in particular. Brandon might like the idea of being able to release sharder-only content through the app (like a new novella). It might even be a way to make the Mistborn RPG (or similar content) available electronically. The benefit to you is primarily monetary. Obviously all this would require professional development and maintenance, that means you could turn the negative income from this site into a profit via a one time sale to Sanderson and/or his publisher. The drawback would be that you would likely be in the same position that George Lucas is with Star Wars (i.e. advisory but mostly irrelevant).

@Spoolofwhool Fair enough about spoilers, I'll go back and spoiler tag my post. I guess that it's fair to view investiture as the spontaneous creation of energy (or as a conduit for the potential energy that is ordinarily stored in the Spiritual Realm), even if that seems like splitting hairs to me. I've actually been wondering the same thing. Several possibilities exist for why we haven't seen her do so (assuming that she has the ability to obtain stormlight via the conventional means); it could be that... she doesn't try because obtaining stormlight via food is the method she is most familiar with or the method that is more direct for her she doesn't know how to infuse stormlight by breathing it in (after all Kaladin struggled with this at first) as a transient street urchin she rarely has access to any but the smallest quantity of spheres/money; this would mean that she would have to steal money or at the very least infuse stormlight from other people's spheres. Since all of the proto-radiants seem to have an instinct to keep their abilities hidden, this would be an effective barrier. I've been wondering whether or not it's possible for a knowledgeable surgebinder (i.e. a herald or full radiant) to draw stormlight from another surgebinder for a while now. I'm assuming that this doesn't work though, because otherwise what's the point of Nale carrying a larkin around?

For some reason, your post's references to predators got me thinking about something that I'll likely make into a full theory soon, but I'll start here for now. General Cosmere spoilers; specifically the Stormlight Archive & White Sand: Something is going on here, and it seems to be Cosmere wide. However, there aren't any beasts of note on Scadrial, Nalthis, or Sel that we know about so far. Any thoughts?

@Spoolofwhool OK, that seems needlessly complicated. Why not view investiture as energy? Can you think of a single manifestation of investiture that isn't an analog to a battery, electricity, or some other kind of force? I can't... • Stormlight Archive ○ Roshar: Each of the "surges" is basically a force. Fabrials harness stormlight in gemstones which function almost identically to electricity stored in batteries. • Warbreaker • Elantris NOTE > I consider the augmentation bestowed by investiture similarly to how a dimmer switch on a light bulb works. A dimmer switch diverts energy from the light bulb into a resistor which prevents the light from shining to its full capacity; to augment a natural ability, investiture lessens a person's natural resistance which increases their ability. • Mistborn (spoiler pertains to the first three books only) • Other Cosmere Stories/Planets ○ I'm leaving Taldain, Threnody, and First of the Sun alone because I'm not 100% on how those planets' magic systems function. So maybe you can find an argument there.

@Lirin's hand I don't agree that Lift's avoidance of change seems to be for her alone. She left Azir so that people wouldn't get to know her and expect things from her. She is obviously disturbed that Gaux has become an Emperor. She has embraced her lot in life as a street urchin, and (for her) that means not staying in any one place too long. Sticking around leads to recognition which is problematic for a kid who feeds herself primarily via theft. Also, developing lasting relationships is a scary concept to Lift because (like all people with trust issues), she associates relationships with the pain of loss and the chaos that followed her mother's death. She doesn't go back to the Reshi Isles because (presumably) people there would recognize her. Although, you might be asking the right questions about why that is a bad thing for her. What made her leave in the first place? Did the Reshi treat her badly when she was newly orphaned? Does Reshi culture treat orphans older than 3 as adults and Lift is afraid of that kind of responsibility? Did the Reshi pity her to the point that she found life there to be insufferable? Perhaps she did do something in her homeland for which she doesn't want to face the consequences... Knowing Lift, she probably just ripped off everyone there was to steal from and boarded a passing merchant ship as it was departing in hopes of finding a meal onboard and developed a habit of moving from place to place afterwards to avoid punishment for stealing.

In Edgedancer, Wyndle explicitly states that Lift "makes" stormlight. Now that could just be a simplification arising from a limited perspective, but Wyndle seems to understand things pretty well. Also from the WOB above: So, taking the plain meaning of his words... She can metabolize make it food into investiture stormlight. You don't have to understand the mechanism by which the process is accomplished in order to understand that it is. However, Sanderson even goes as far as to explains the mechanism by which Lift does what she does. What he didn't explain is what metabolizing food into investiture means for how Lift nourishes her body. It's that last part that you're getting hung up on, and frankly I don't see how that really matters. If stormlight/investiture is essentially spiritual energy released into the physical realm, is it really that much of a stretch to believe that the Nightwatcher altered Lift's body to skip the process her cells use to create energy (i.e. food goes through a series of oxidation reactions that break nutrients down into energy-rich molecules like ATP and/or NADH which are then used in glycosis, fermentation, or oxidative phosphorylation to create cellular energy | Link: Nature.com - Cell Energy and Cell Functions)? Seeing as how there are three different processes by which cells convert food into energy, could the Nightwatcher have simply added one to Lift's cells that allows them to function like gemstones (which are able to hold stormlight)? From there, all that is needed is for Lift's cells to be able to use stormlight in a manner similar to the way that normal cells use electrical energy. This isn't difficult to imagine because stormlight gives off light and powers things like flight for Windrunners, illumination and soul casting for Lightweavers, and powers movement in paired fabrials for non-surge binders. So, Lift's cellular metabolism diagram might look something like this:

I thought it had to do with Lift's distaste for change. After the initial trauma of losing her mother, she experienced world-shattering changes. The loss of a parent is always a very traumatic event for a child, but children cope with trauma differently than adults. Children lack the experience to develop a personal system for explaining the world around them. So kids don't grow bitter, depressed, apathetic, or despondent like adults (see Kaladin for an example of this adult version of a response to trauma). Instead, kids process traumatic events much like they learn not to touch fire; that is, they respond with avoidance, fear, and distrust. So, back to Lift... When Lift lost her mom, things changed for her and she had to adapt to life as an orphan. Lift explains this in Edgedancer; she talks about not knowing what to do with herself when she doesn't have to hunt, steal, or fight to obtain food. So, after adapting to life as an orphan, Lift had experienced enough change and insecurity to last a lifetime. She likely associated this kind of uncomfortable change with growing older. Since she was a 10 year old girl at the time, experiencing puberty without having a mother around to explain menstruation probably reinforced this association of bad changes coming with age. Therefore, when she had an opportunity to visit the Nightwatcher and have a wish granted, Lift asked not to change anymore and her association of change with aging caused her to believe that this would make her stop aging as well.

Yeah, this has always bothered me too. If breaking under torture causes the Desolation, why would Odium give the heralds a headstart and allow them time to prepare the people of Roshar for war? However, the only sensible alternative to this (in my mind) is a periodic occurrence. So what does that leave as possible causes? Perhaps Desolations begin after half of the heralds leave, and since Taln was the only herald in attendance this time he was able to trigger the Desolation by himself?

What if... Autonomy enlisted Odium's help to destroy Dominion on Sel Devotion was destroyed because she tried to defend Dominion As payment for Odium's help on Sel, Autonomy agreed to assist Odium at some point in the future Odium called in his favor, and had enlisted Autonomy's help to defeat Harmony on Scadrial The result is an attack from both Autonomy and Odium. The other option is that Rayse is defeated by Bavadin picks up his shard at some point in the future. Either way, the interference on Scadrial seems to have elements of both Odium and Autonomy; Trell is either Autonomy acting in alliance with Odium, Trell is both Odium and Autonomy, or Trell is a cognitive shadow that has been heavily influenced by Autonomy and has enlisted the aid of either Dominion (Svrakiss/Skaze) or Odium (Unmade/Voidspren).