Djarskublar

I think I've actually seen this one on the forums before, perhaps even recently, but it is relevant to the discussion. There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Jack Harkness, everyone else, and people who weren't expecting a trinary joke!

My dad has a friend that watches for awkward silences to yell 'it's not cannibalism if you use barbecue sauce!' You aren't alone.

Yes, excellent nitpicks all around. Have a well deserved gree... orange arrow. I will say I didn't mean any rudeness, it's just kinda your specialty. What I specifically meant by 'more human' is that Vasher talks about how since NB has never been alive, it doesn't understand humanity. I figured that if you pulled shenanigans with a cross system hack, you could make the sword more human. Sapience doesn't necessarily guarantee that you understand human morality. Just look at spren. They don't understand human speech patterns or values. They are great at understanding one aspect like right/wrong or patterns/truth, but they have to be bonded to get the big picture. NB isn't going to grow because of a bond, though. He is defined by his Command. So it may be possible to power the object down so that it is more 'human' like Spool suggested, but Hemalurgy may work just as well without sacrificing much, if any, power. With the human attributes, I would more specifically grab the mentally oriented ones. You wouldn't necessarily need a complete set. The most important would be memory. If he could remember that Shashara was dead, that would be nice. I also wonder if a sentient awakened object has Hemalurgic bind points. It is alive, to an extent, and other living species have bind points. Now I want to have an awakened staff (stick) with a pouch on it to put metals in that would qualify as a stomach to burn from. Put small spikes in it to give it powers. Spike a spren to it so it can glow and be a supercool Staff of Power! That is all a tangent, though.

Based on what you quoted there, it made me have a total lightbulb moment that probably deserves another entire thread, but is possibly relevant to the current discussion. I present the idea that there are only two kinds of awakened objects. Lifeless are one, and normal awakened objects are another. Your quote suggested to me that type IV entities are actually just more powerful type IIIs. This means that Nightblood is just Invested enough and with the right commands to attain sentience. He is powerful enough that he drains Investiture when using his powers. Normal awakened objects slowly use up their Breath as well, just far slower. They aren't maintaining a mind as well. They also don't exercise mind control or other weird stuff. This brings me to the other implication of my statement. Returned are Lifeless. Lifeless created by Endowment with the command that would fit their goal in Returning. Then, because they are so heavily invested, they get more 'stuff.' They have free will because they are Invested enough to have a mind and a Command that is very unrestrictive. Maintaining this state drains Investiture in the same manner as NB, just a lot slower. There are other side effects of being so heavily Invested, like magic healing and superhuman beauty and ability. This boils down to the idea that the difference between Lifeless and other awakened objects is that one was once sentient. The ninth Heightening is required for stone/metal because they have no connection to life. I always assumed it was necessary to even make a type IV. The difference in whether or not you can recall the Breath is in Identity. Of you awaken something and imprint your Identity on it, it is keyed to you and you can recall it. With something like a Lifeless or NB, you are creating a new Identity, and can't recall from that Identity because it isn't you. This leads me to an expansion to method one. The gold/gold Twinborn should get spiked with the ability to Awaken. Then you use spikes on them to create a set of spikes with their Identity that constitutes all the human attributes. Use time or breaking up the spike as @Turbonator suggested, and make your object. Then have your gold/gold Twinborn awaken the object. If you do it correctly, you may end up with an object that has a similar enough Identity for them to be able to recall the Breaths. Then if you messed up the Command, you aren't stuck with it! With the second method, maybe a Divine Breath has the Command imprinted on it, so if it was used in the creation of a type IV, it would influence the Command given to it towards the Command Endowment gave the Returned the Breath came from. Oh and @The One Who Connects, I am at once anticipating and dreading @Spoolofwhool's comments. I am very interested in what @Argent has to say, though. His comments are generally excellent.

I was thinking yesterday about how you could maybe make a more human type 4 like Nightblood. I bounced a couple ideas off of @Peng the Just since he was around, and came to a couple conclusions. The obvious answer is to use Hemalurgy somehow. I have a couple ideas of how to make a better NB, but first I think we could use a couple reminders, along with a few questions that may be relevant. The first is that a type 4 Biochromatic Entity is made by imbuing a stone or metal object with 1000 Breaths. Is that number mutable? Is it just hitting a target minimum Investiture? That seems likely. That is how other awakenings work as far as I can tell. Second, we know that Nightblood and Shardblades can be used as Hemalurgic spikes, but that they wouldn't necessarily pick up any additional Investiture because they are already 'full.' This makes things generally difficult. I think i also saw a WoB (that I can't find at the moment) that said that it would be difficult to awaken a spike because it already has Investiture that would interfere with the awakening. Third we know that a Returned can shape their Divine Breath, but we don't know the extent of that ability. Is it limited to just physical changes, or can it be used for far more powerful things? What is the mechanic by which it works? After presenting some base concepts that shaped this, and keeping in mind the questions, I present the actual theory. The first is a solid idea that I think would work. The second would require some more information and clarifying discussion. The first is that you use Hemalurgic spikes forged together into a sword or some such thing before you awaken it. "But Djar," you might say, "you already have pointed out that it is really tough to awaken spikes because their Investiture interferes!" And you would be right. There is a trick to it that I thought of that would make it possible, though. We start of with a Gold/Gold Twinborn. We use them compounding and then tapping a bunch as we spike them, or some such trick to keep them alive and regrow the spiritweb we spike off. We do this repeatedly to spike off a copy off all the human attributes. Wait a few hundred years (or some such large time). This allows the spikes to weaken enough that now they don't have enough Investiture to effectively interfere, while still potentially making the awakened object more human. Forge the spikes together (with normal means, not Forgery) into the desired shape. Then awaken the storming thing! This sounds like a solid method Realmatically, but it takes a long time. The second method is much more iffy and, well, crazy. I'm not even fully sure where I'm going with this idea. The idea is that you use a Divine Breath in the process of awakening the object. If a Returned shapes the Breath as they are awakening, or maybe they are more mutable and able to be more human when used to awaken. I don't know. Maybe a Divine Breath is just a more 'human' breath, so it acts as a much larger Breath, even though it is still only one Breath, so it works more powerfully in awakening/Heightening. It would still have substantially more Investiture. I have no idea exactly how this would work, I just think it likely that if you used a Divine Breath or three in the awakening process in some specific manner it could potentially make your type IV entity more human. I am totally open to suggestions for how that might operate. I want to see what people think of both ideas. The first is much more grounded, so it should be provable/disprovable more easily. The second is more of a vague idea that probably shouldn't be posted yet, but I have no idea where to take it, and since it fits with the other, I am posting it anyway. I will let you guys direct that conversation.

Well yes, but that isn't what my post was about. The discussion had digressed to where it was speaking of what Feruchemical strength is. So I tossed in my two cents. As for aluminumminds, I agree with the idea that you only have to store to a threshold, and then you can store the last bit as basically blank identity in the medallion. It just makes sense. My previous post didn't discuss that though. Ehh... now I will end up super off topic. Lets just say I disagree with the OP for reasons fairly well discussed above. Maybe I will make a thread just for this. I feel it warrants more discussion, but it would fully derail this one.

Use Sharders as an example! Then post your essay! Get much upvotage!!! Seriously though, don't stress it. Essays are easy. Just spout out your x number of paragraphs and do a solid grammar check. Use some big words and 99% percent of teachers will be overly impressed... sad but true.

Come on. Spicy jelly is good! Specifically we make our own jalapeño jelly. You don't put it on most things though. You have to put out a block of cream cheese to soften, then spread the jelly on it. Then you use a cracker of choice to scrape the two off your dish. Mmmm. Crackers, cheese, and jalapeño jelly. On a separate note, what do you guys make yourselves that is different from normal cooking? We make candy canes and vanilla. That vanilla is storming good!

My bet is that feruchemical strength is about tapping. A higher strength feruchemist can do higher taps with less power loss. So they can have more speed for the same time or the same speed for longer when compared to a weaker feruchemist. That is the best explanation I can think of.

I will lock you in a room with Shallan for a week.

Ouch. *hugs* That's even worse than the time a couple years ago when I had an ear infection on a road trip. Through Fresno. And Yosemite. All the elevation pressure change with no ability to pop my ears. Good times. Still better than nosebleeds that don't stop.

Well I like most things for what they are good at. I like metal the most, but for a while I was really into some particular stuff from the seventies. Stuff with kinda a nasal/falsetto vocal like the Commodores' Brick House or Wild Cherry's Play that Funky Music. I love the philosophy of Jazz. Time signatures have always felt contrived and pointless to me, so rag time is great. Plus the instrumentation is well developed. Since I sorta play clarinet, I love it when there are clarinet solos. I like older stuff like the Beatles, but not a ton. Just not my cup of tea. I like the concept of rap, but I have yet to hear any that wasn't so vulgar or poorly executed that I hated it. I grew up on New Wave, so that is what I know fairly well. It is very... Inconsistent on what is good though. I'm no Bon Jovi or Billy Idol fan, but Def Leppard is the only band I've seen in concert. New Order is great. Huey Lewis is solid. I adore The Cure's music. The Cure's Love Song is my favorite love song period, and Lullaby is the single creepiest song I've heard. In a good way. It gives me chills when I listen to it so well that I have to laugh, so good stuff there. I tend to hate New Wave with female leads. Cindy Lauper head off. Classical is of course good, but I don't listen to much of that, and I'm just not versed in it well enough to hold a conversation on it. Edit: I also respect punk for being gutsy enough to sing their hugely radical opinions. I still don't like their general lack of technical proficiency or song writing talent. I can still respect them, though.

Okay I wasn't sure if it was endless forms or if something else had come out. I have heard of Kamelot. Haven't heard of Rhapsody of Fire though. I didn't realize there was a thread for that. As you posted I happened to be listening to David Bowie's Fame. Good stuff, that.

Winter is coming. Not getting cold feet, are you? Gratz on the nephew. Have fun spoiling him.

@Slowswift sure why not? Copy paste or post a link. Cool either way. I wish I was homeschooled. That would have been waaay more interesting. School was decidedly boring. On the other point, this is pretty much the only situation where I disagree with that. Here in Utah people are barely paid to teach public education. Throwing money at it would help if it is thrown in the right direction. Don't throw it at curriculum development. Throw it straight to actual educators. Curricula are a nightmare now, but the immediate concern to me is teacher quality. And quantity. When I was in physics, my teacher ranted about the fact that he cannot retire. There are no more qualified physics teachers in the state that aren't employed. Or for my computer science class they didn't have anyone qualified to teach it, so they literally dumped it on the new guy. He had just switched from teaching junior high. It would have been a nightmare if he had actually attempted to teach things more than once a week. Apparently a two week crash course qualifies him to teach the class. He basically came out and said he was clueless, and to figure it out on our own... That's quality education for you. Them tax dollars hard at work! We need to get people to look at teaching as a real option. I know I would love to be a teacher, but I take one look at the pay and look the other way. I have an excellent track record for handling kids, so I'd do a good job. And then politicians come in and say we need standardized testing, so they slash budgets and decrease standards to make it look like we did better... Ugh

Exactly, though they are more talking about spoiled children being like 'I don't get cake every day, I will treat my kids better!' It is about kids who don't understand the realities of parenting, which I do. It is the... Not really a trope, but the trope of I will do things differently, then you do the same thing. Think about Calvin and Hobbes, for example. He is always saying he will treat his kids better, when it is a miracle he hasn't been strangled yet. It just bothers me when people apply it to my situation. I would quite literally rather be shot to death (or any death really) than treat anyone how I have been treated. The whole you will see when you are older just pisses me off. I have known for years that they have mistreated me, but It has only been recently that I have been able to put names to what they are doing and causing. As I get older, I hate them more, and I have yet to have an a-ha moment when I'm like, oh I see why you did that. Only moments when I say 'holy Hell, how did I survive that With any of my mind intact?'

I got a promotion at work! I got put on the quality assurance team at my job, so I can finally get something on my resumé that says I'm more than some schmuck who had one crap job. The pay isn't any better, and may actually be worse, but I get more hours now. But maybe in 6 months or a year I can go find a better job that pays well, rather than this decent job that pays poorly. I was only here because the place has high turnover for management, so I got the promotion in a year. I was honestly expecting six months.

Yeah living in Utah is hard. At least, it is as An LDS person who likes things that are decidedly frowned upon by the culture my faith is in. Just the culture, not explicitly by the faith itself. I kinda got tired of telling random schmucks that I know that, yes, I like metal, and no, it is not inherently evil or stuff with atrocious vocals. I mean really... You listen to the pop garbage that is basically 90% 'hey you're hot let's have sex' or some variation of 'we broke up, so now I hate/miss you'... I can appreciate the exceptions to the rule, but the rule is still there. I feel really bad for people who limit themselves to only listening to MoTab. They are great, but not something you should want to listen to exclusively. Nothing should be listened to exclusively. That would be brainwashing. Yeah I second Skillet. I only know a couple of their songs, but they are interesting. Oh and Twi, if I had something that hidden and they had snooped to find it, I would be like 'yo, privacy!' I have as much a right to it as anyone. It's not like you had dirty mags stuffed under your matress. And I would tell them, yes, I would have my sister listen to it. If only to see how that went. Call me masochistic, but sometimes it is hilarious to see how far a punishment can be unreasonably taken. Like seriously, yeah sure, I didn't do X chore right. No, I wasn't shown how to do it properly (according to your definition). No that does not warrant almost hitting me (thank God for domestic violence laws that barely keep him in check), nor does it warrant me losing access to everything I enjoy except books, if only because they are really hard to remove access to. It definitely doesn't warrant any punishment for longer than a few days, not a month. When I commit a crime worthy of a six month jail time, then you can take away non homework access to a computer for that duration. Punishment is supposed to teach, not reinforce your absolute authority. I was legitimately shocked when my father said that I had to respect him because of the 'honor your parents' commandment. I'm sitting there like, you sold that right for the mess of pottage known as a power trip. And seriously, when you pull the commandments card, you know your argument is on thin ice. I lost the last shred of respect I had for either of my parents when one time I don't do something. I haven't the faintest what it was, so it can't have been that important. Fraternal progenitor comes home, find out, starts screaming, and gathers us all up on the couch huddling. I was like 8 or 10. He then proceeded to use a plastic bat, you know, the kind that is hollow and weighs a couple ounces, to put a hole the size of a softball in our sheetrock wall. Just a tiny bit less self control, and that would have been my head. Stupid statute of limitations. Then my mom has tried to justify his actions. She lost that argument every time. RIP respect. Edit: actual peeve time! I peeve out way more than most people when they tell me I will treat my kids the same way my parents do. No, I will not treat them in a borderline illegal manner. I would in all seriousness rather be castrated. I am working hard now so that I can have my kids learn as many laguages as possible. I want to see if it is possible to have a kid understand all the different syllables out there. There are thousands of them, so I am guessing I should shoot for at least seven languages. Better get cracking on that Japanese. I have always been a more open minded individual because of my parenting, and I mostly just remember my childhood as being unfulfilling. I was that kid that would rather play with the babies at a party (and be good at it) or sit at the 'adult' table and listen to interesting conversations. I learned to play chess when I was three, and I legitimately won my first game against my aunt. Sure, I would have won either way, she was leading me into checkmating her, but I suddenly just moved a couple pieces and declared checkmate. If she didn't see it coming, it counts. (I'm not a chess prodigy, I just pick things up fast.) I guess that comes to my point that even a six year old me had a lot of good ideas. A lot of terrible ones too, but more on a moral point than anything. No, twelve year old me, this idea that is basically eugenics is not actually a good idea, but it's better than the poop jokes people expect.

Fair enough on the bass. Jazz is a fun genre when I'm in the mood, so I will check them out. I will let you know how that goes. As for Dragonforce, I enjoy their music for its sheer wall of sound quality that can still be analyzed musically. They aren't the best, but I still love them. I can, critically speaking, agree with you, but I guess this is the part of my taste there is no accounting for On the other hand, I don't watch many live shows, so that is less of a factor for me. Kudos to them if they can play live, but it isn't something everyone can do. I can still enjoy the album.

Only discovered them a few weeks ago, so I couldn't say for sure. I'm not even sure which one that is. So far Dark Passion Play is where most of the songs I really like are from. I think I will agree with the popular opinion that the new singer is the best of them. Whatever her name was... I don't listen to Iron Maiden much at all. I simply haven't gotten around to trying them out. I have only had the freedom to listen to what I want for a year or two, so I haven't had a lot of time to just explore. (thank you spotify for weekly recommendations.) Symphonic Metal is simply the best, for sure. It's nice to know at least one other Sharder likes the stuff.

Pet peeve (not really): realizing I actually just read this whole thread. All 51 pages. Real pet peeves: people adding y sounds to words with the 'kin' syllable. For example napkin or pumpkin. It's like the synonym for family not kyin... Oh and @TwiLyghtSansSparkles, you are not alone. Twimom is Djardad. "Those liberals are so evil" "black people were cursed by God" paraphrase: 'the forms of entertainment you enjoy are worthless. I don't even know what they are yet since I haven't given you a chance to say.' Or the worst one of all 'give me that thing.' What thing? Description please. Then you get yelled at for being stupid. Go die pig ****** On a less... Pure hateful rage inducing 'if they end up dead, look at me first as a suspect' note... Reading this thread for the first time and wanting so desperately to comment on past stuff, but not wanting to necro the conversation. People making value judgements based on their stereotypes about media I enjoy, like anime or metal music (or even fantasy...). For the last time, people, not all anime is over-the-top targeted-at-8yr-olds shonen. And metal is actually the closest genre to classical music in composition out of modern styles. It is not screamo and it is not satanic. Those things are components you can add to any music, and it is just stereotyped as a metal/punk thing. I don't like country music. I think it is basically people just making a poor rendition of yodelling about their tractors and exes. I still listened to several hours of it on the way to a scout camp before I made that judgement. I will listen to anything once, and probably more than once, before I make a judgement. If you are one of those who doesn't believe metal has any redeeming qualities, listen to Call of Ktulu by Metallica. It's instrumental, so even if you don't like their vocals (which I can understand), you can still hear a great song. It isn't the pop ABA form I'm so generally tired of. It's, IIRC, more of an ABCAB form. It also isn't in your face loud. It is based off the Cthulhu mythos, so it is somewhat creepy, but wow. Well written. You just don't see as many sophisticated or diverse culture references is more mainstream genres like country, electronic, or true pop. Or try Nightwish. They are a lovely Finnish band in the Symphonic Metal subgenre. They have gone through a few female leads that are actually pretty decent. They have an orchestra and a choir in the background on a lot of their tracks. It makes for a really layered, interesting sound. Also, one of the core members plays Uillean pipes (spelling unsure). Try Élan if that sounds even slightly interesting. It's not a heavy sound, for the most part. If you don't mind trying a heavier sound, try Dragonforce. With clean vocals, it is something easier to like, and the players are RIDICULOUSLY good. Playing for 7 minutes at at least 200 bpm with nary a quarter note in sight takes serious technical skill and stamina. It also isn't 'let's play some really fast noise' punk music. It is well composed. On a side note, if you want to be truly impressed, check out the Rock Band/Guitar Hero expert version of any song, and then compare it to the expert version of Dragonforce's 'Through the fire and the flames.' And then remember that playing a real guitar is harder. Wow. Off my music soap box now... That I realize basically just became a plug for some bands I like... Oops... I peeve out when people present only two options with political issues. For example, here in the US, we have a problem with lots of illegal immigrants from Mexico and other countries, but the focus is on Mexicans. It is presented that we either keep them out somehow, or give them all amnesty. No. There are other options. An example that I don't actually recommend, but present for humor value is that we annex Mexico and have done with it. Then we have a smaller border to guard. Another is people misconstruing the guns rights issue. We have the right to bear arms so we can shoot back if the government tries something and we don't like it. It isn't about crime or mental health. Those matter, but if I want to be able to shoot down a government helicopter with a SAM, I should be able to do so. That probably comes across as extremely redneck, but my basis is sound. The founding fathers people love so much to pull the card for on various issues owned military grade weaponry (it was not as big a difference then, but still). Some private citizens owned warships and artillery for Pete's sake! I will semi gloss over the fact that the warships were used to escort their merchant fleets. That is beside the point. They could own such things. Now we complain about how much ammo a low caliber weapon can have in one magazine... I think I'm done now. That was a bit longer than initially intended. Hopefully at least one of you listens to a song or two and appreciates It.

First reaction.... Floored. Second reaction: upvote. Third reaction: where are Dalinar and Adolin? Sure no Sadeas cuz he is in the back shooting big arrows, but you should be able to see at least one of the other two. They were chopping up limbs then, right? I will have to reread. I am willing to suspend disbelief for the impact of one shardbearer facing down a chasmfiend, though.

I actually don't think I've seen this one. Was it a Reddit one or something? I also agree with that. I suppose he could be using a medallion, though of course we have assumed he used the Lerasium for a long time since we didn't know about medallions before that.

Alright so the general consensus is that he was respeaking his Oaths, and that revived her? I can accept that, though I still like the idea that it was his Intent (capital I) to stop the assassination that revived her. I guess restating the three possibilities that have been presented would be relevant. The first is that upon restating the first Oath she was revived. The second is that as he started to follow the ideals properly again, that revived her (this doesn't necessarily include respeaking Oaths). The third is that his Intent to stop the assassination was enough to fix the problem, since that was the problem that made him break his Oaths in the first place. I think all three would sufficiently explain why she was talking with the Stormfather before Kaladin spoke the third Oath. The second and third option are admittedly very similar and may only practically vary in timing. I agree with @The One Who Connects on this, though. She wasn't totally dead, just mostly, so perhaps she was still able to communicate with the Stormfather at that point since she wasn't totally dead yet. On the other hand, she had kinda been dying for weeks, ever since Kaladin found out about the plot. She was extremely childlike leading up to the Chasm scene where she damaged herself to pass Kaladin some Light. That suggests that even if she wasn't completely dead yet, she was dead enough to not be capable of proper communication anymore.

I hope she was fully dead. Not to sound callous, but it makes a better story. To actually reply, though, I don't think that he had restated any of the other words first. I will definitely check that, particularly at the lighteyes training ground. He had maybe said the Life before Death etc words while there. For the other part of that, she was speaking with the Stormfather before he said the next Words. She had already been revived, and was constrained by the Stormfather. The thing in question is when and by what cause. I think it was his Intent leading into him stopping Moash. He started following his Oaths again, so she got revived.