Amanuensis

I honestly might still vote for you as far as I can tell, there's no new evidence to suggest your innocent. Though I do have to consider some things and see where you weigh compared to others, now. That's IKYK territory which tends to lead nowhere helpful, nine times out of ten. I will consider why Dani was targeted in a minute, though. Don't worry Doc. I certainly don't trust you. I'm pretty sure I never said I did I just thought it was more likely the eliminators were voting towards the end of the cycles rather than the beginning, but now that Mage is revealed village and Jond has talked more, I'm starting to consider placing you above him on my suspicion list. I'll decide who to vote on at the end of this post, though. Still reading and processing. To comment on the rest of what you said, I'm not quite sure yet if Jond should be let off the hook. The fact of the matter is he did defend STINK quite a bit, and his arguments for why he's suspicious of players so far aren't really making sense to me (I can really only recall him voting for Wonko, who hasn't yet to really participate yet, particularly since I joined the game). I am considerably more suspicious of Nyali, however, although that will depend quite a bit on Polking's alignment as well. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever seen evil!Nyali, but I know I've seen village!Nyali, and it can be scary... pretty much a tangent. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt about being busy for the holidays. But I will be keeping that in mind from here forward. I've got a village read on Ecth, like I said, similar to how I did in Joe's QF. I really don't think he's evil, so I'm kinda putting my analyses of him on the back burner. As for the rest... yeah. I'm more than certain one of Assassin, Clanky, and Polking are Traitors, due to the missing kill. I just haven't decided which one I think is more likely. If I had to guess, I would say Polking, since in the very beginning of the game he mentioned the last time he won a game and literally didn't post until the very last turn. That was MR10 and I was a Diagrammist with him that game, and I clearly remember being sad and disappointed every time he didn't show up (which was nearly every turn), especially since he had such an important role and his absence nearly cost me my life. So... yeah. It feels a bit strange to me that he'd mention the game he won while inactive in defense of himself when he was evil in that exact game. As for Clanky, as Nyali brings up, he replaced Darkness Ascendant who was one of the players to randomly vote for STINK (and almost kill him) before I came in to replace Orlok. She's reading it as DA wouldn't have done that if they were teammates. I disagree severely. I mentioned this earlier, but in the Discworld LG I gave DA a weapon so that it wouldn't be stolen from me, as luckat had mentioned the Thieves knew I had it somehow, and he refused to use it on the players I asked him to despite repeatedly asking (because he "needed to maintain his chaotic reputation"). Then, on the day turn before the game ended, he lynched his own teammate for absolutely no reason, which prompted me to give up on the game since he had not only killed luckat (perhaps unintentionally), but nearly killed me too, if not for the fact I jailed myself, and then proceeded to kill another member of ours. Long story short, I do not trust that his vote on STINK makes him a villager, and I almost believe that he did it because they are teammates. I can't recall any specific scenarios, but I'm pretty confident he has made offhand comments about STINK before, and I would not be surprised if he considered him competition for the most chaotic player. Then there's the fact that Clanky hasn't really done much, other than be absent for the turn that no kill occurred, and then vote for Nyali when he could have been the deciding factor for which of Jond and Mage die. This makes me wonder that the reason no one tried to break the tie is because both of the players are actually villagers, and thus he decided to remain a third party, as to not draw attention to himself, and not caring about the results. No real opinion on Assassin. I find it interesting that Clanky is voting for him, though. Has anyone else voted for him in the past? It would be much better if you read it the turn was not particularly long, and I tend to genuinely value your contribution to these games, so having no middle man between what happened and your analysis would be much better for everyone, I think (plus it'll help me get a better read on you ) As for Dani being the target of the kill. I suspect she was killed for similar reasons as Lopen, but that could only be true if it turns out Jond is actually evil, which I'm beginning to doubt, now, which makes me think they killed Lopen and her to distract us. As a result, I would guess that the players she has voted for are actually innocent (whom I think have only been STINK and Wonko). I suppose it could have been revenge for STINK's death, but that doesn't really make sense, since I would have been a more obvious target. Wait. Wait wait wait. Dani's last post says "I don't think you're an Elim, Jond. I would move my vote to solidify the lynch on Mage, but the thing is, I don't know about him. I'm not particularly suspicious of him either. And I don't trust my judgement to be confident enough to place a deciding vote." I suddenly find it a bit funny that Jond starts this turn off talking about IKYKs and Wonko. Killing a villager who doesn't think an elim is evil is a bit risky because that's getting rid of an extra vote in your favor, but if the attempt on her life was to either A: get us to assume she was onto something or B: confuse us by making a questionable kill, then it's possible the Traitors would also seek confirming her alignment as a way to gain trust for those she trusts, especially since my last post was saying how my trust of Dani had decreased significantly during that turn. I suppose there's also the possibility that the kill was rushed, or not thought about clearly, but that would again depend on who their team consists of, which could certainly be polking or Assassin at this point. I... hm. I'm starving, so I'm going to deliberate on this more while I make dinner and eat.

This comment in particular makes me want to ask Brandon if it's possible for two Vessels to procreate.

I am of the opinion that Szeth will become something akin to a Radiant without adhering to any of the 10 Orders. Also, to quote the text from the back cover of WoK... I'm wondering if Szeth will end up being the one who may redeem them (the next question here being if them is referring to the Sleepless or Roshar in general). Which makes me wonder even more who the person is who will certainly destroy them. I don't know about Dalinar, but in Kaladin and Shallan's cases, I could definitely see them accidentally ruining the world, if they don't turn against it outright. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I see those things entirely different personally, and here's why. Lopen wasn't born with one arm. In fact, he probably spent most of his life with two, though we don't have a confirmation on when he lost it, exactly, I don't think. Not only is phantom limb syndrome a real thing, but it's obvious by his positive disposition on life that he doesn't really look down on himself at all for it. On the other hand, it seems Renarin has always had poor vision. He's also not exactly the most confident or optimistic individual. That being said, you bring up a good point. He desperately wants to be useful for his family. So, while I don't necessarily think that affects how he genuinely pictures himself, I could accept that the Stormlight is acting off of his intense desire to be better than he is.

I do think he was being a bit clever that being said, I also think it's a red herring. Considering that Bavadin's many faces manifest as clouds, and that both the Dayside and Darkside have two different magics despite facing two different stars, I'm pretty confident it's the atmosphere that's invested, not the stars.

Once again, I'll bring up that those ten particular gas giants have the symbols of individual Orders of the Knight's Radiant on them. It's one thing to name the planets 1 - 10. It's another thing to use the symbols of what basically equate to medieval superheroes on them.

An interesting thought, Zen, but sadly confirmed wrong you'll learn about what happened to Hoid in Arcanum Unbounded.

Secret History Spoilers

I'm about to go to sleep, so I'll just reaffirm that I'm keeping my vote where I've got it. My trust for Dani has decreased significantly, since it's possible she could have been saying she was suspicious of STINK because she was on a team with, like I mentioned Mage could have been doing with Jond earlier. I'm also suspicious since the lynch is the only tool the villagers have in this game, and she's using it on Wonko, who is basically only on my suspicion list at this point because he was absent for the latter half of the previous turn, while in contrast I believe that STINK wouldn't have bothered voting for him if they were teammates, as I stated earlier in this cycle. Though it could have been distancing, I find it a tad unlikely that two elims were up for the lynch at that point, and especially that Wonko is one, given everything else he's posted hasn't set off any red flags for me, either than him being non-committal early on, which as I said, I think is because of level of activity, not his alignment, as he didn't behave that way at all the last time I saw him evil. I'm as good as dead, I think, so in the odd chance Jond turns out to be innocent, I thinking killing Mage would be best, although Doc is certainly a candidate as well, given he was the only other person to vote on Wonko, and as I pointed out earlier this game, has been involved in every mislynch so far. Ecth is probably the player I trust the most right now due to the placement of his vote on STINK the previous turn. I am suspicious of polking, Clanky and Assassin for similar reasons as Wonko, if not more so than him, because at least in the case of the first two, they have said things I personally interpret as shady. I don't really have much experience with Assassin outside of what I saw of him in the last MR, which was mostly nothing, given he was inactive most of the game, so he could be a part of the reason why there was no kill. I also don't think Nyali is a Traitor, like I said, but I could be wrong about that. I think that covers everyone. Have a good night, ladies and gents.

Oh, sorry about that I just was interested in that particular bit of information, if it was true. I could definitely see each of the ten planets being massive troves of gaseous investiture that was bound to each Herald by Honor and Cultivation, partly to trap Odium, but also partly to make them immortal / capable of being reborn. Maybe when the Heralds are alive, Odium's influence outside of Braize is limited, much like how (Wheel of Time Spoilers) and when the Heralds die, Odium intercepts their minds in the Cognitive Realm, where he then tortures them until they give up. This willingness to give up allows their souls to escape to their bound planet, where their bodies can be regrown, which gives Odium free reign on the inner system for a limited period of time, so that he can hopefully break whatever else is keeping him bound, which I reckon is Cultivation Herself. I haven't necessarily thought through the mechanics of this, but it simultaneously explains the significance of ten planets, the reason why Heralds are powerful and ageless even without their Honorblades, in addition to how they are tortured / reborn.

I must be unaware of this fact, though I am curious. Where was this confirmed / what gas is each herald associated with? I just thought it was Jesrien who was related to "translucent gas" and "air" while Nale was associated with with "opaque gas" / "smoke" / "fog".

I still think Bavadin isn't human, primarily because while it could be her just exercising her powers, the fact that she takes the route seems to imply that before the Shattering, she was already culturally attuned to changing forms to fit her whims / purposes, at least from my perspective. For example, I come from a military background, and as a result, my knee jerk reaction to considering the applications of magic lean towards weaponize it, and I tend to take that more seriously / explore that more in depth than perhaps a botanist would in how it applies to plantlife. Not sure if this accurately portrays my point, but yeah... I have no idea what the third Yolish race is, nor how dragon's shapeshifting works exactly, but I do think her unique origins were a factor in her unique development, compared to the human shards we've all seen. Plus, I've seen a theory somewhere that Edgli (Endowment) might be a dragon, too, and if that's the case, that might help explain why her Slivers (the Returned) are so easily capable of "shapeshifting" (to a lesser extent).

While the planets having no significance is certainly a possibility, I personally doubt that's the case. Brandon seldom writes coincidences like that. And besides, there's the whole fact that on the map, each planet has the actual glyph for the ten orders of the Knights Radiant's inside them, which is more than what Ashyn and Braize have. In fact, every planet that we have a story take place on so far has a symbol annotated on their orb for them (Sel, both Scadrials, Taldain, Threnody, and First of the Sun). That alone makes me thing they're important / abnormal. So yeah. I think they don't have much of a presence in the Cognitive because there are little-to-no lifeforms there, but that in the Spiritual Realm, they are vastly large and act as barriers to prevent Odium from leaving the Rosharian System. It seems likely to me that each one is bound to their relevant Herald in some way, though I'm not exactly sure how. I'd be tempted to ask if the planet Tanat had more of a presence in the Cognitive Realm before Taln returned to Roshar.

(3) Magestar: Doctor12, I_am_a_STICK, Jondesu, (3) Jondesu: Nyali, Amanuensis, Magestar (1) Doctor12: Ecthelion III, (1) Nyali: Clanky, (1) Wonko the Sane: Daniyah,

Unless they're spiritual barriers, which is something we don't know much about. But given they're on the outside of the system, I don't see how they could prevent Odium from constantly Desolating Roshar, which lies on the other side. So while they might play a part in preventing Rayse from leaving the system, I don't think they're the complete answer to the Oathpact.

Since I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, the knowledge that this map is from Silverlight's perspective has convinced me that the "Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere" does not exist in the Cognitive Realm, which is interesting to me since that was a theory at some point (not sure if it's still believed or not). Which means that it's both accessible via the Cognitive Realm (has it's own reliable perpendicularity) and that it exists in a separate system than the rest of the worlds that we've seen so far. Given how often Khriss notes perpendicularities that aren't made up of a specific Shard's investiture (First of the Sun, Threnody), I wonder if Silverlight is inhabited (and perhaps ran by) a Shard that encourages an intermixing culture / adventure / research.

I mean, I suppose. These are just context clues, not real evidence. And the context required to explain the motivations is your alignment, which we can only find out by killing you. Your involvement (or lack there of) in the STINK lynch is the main reason why I think you're more suspicious than Mage, and these are just the other things I noticed that support that theory. I still believe I'm right, which means it's my duty to vote for you, though I hope you know my helping kill you will be as gentlemanly as possible. Traitor or not, I'll still bandage up your corpse, redress you in a pristine suit, and ship you back home to your family, because as evil as you may be, they still love and care for you, and being able to lay you to rest is the least they deserve.

Huh. I hadn't thought of that. Ecthelion is pretty obviously still him, despite the name change, so I don't know if it applies to him. The other two Ooklas are yourself and Doc, I think. Am I right on that? So between the two, I think Doc would have been more likely to have been the target, since I had said I would be extremely suspicious of you if STINK died. There's two big reasons why I rank you more suspicious than him. The lesser of the two is because of the logic I applied to Nyali can be used on him somewhat as well, though I do now have to consider what Mage just brought up involving Ooklas effecting orders. Secondly, there's the fact that if he did not move his vote from Wonko to STINK, STINK might not have died, and we may have spent another turn trying to get rid of him. While it's possible STINK requested that Mage just bus him for trust, I think this is less likely than the alternative. The fact of the matter is, unlike your statements about not thinking STINK is evil and voting on Wonko instead of him, Mage was a big part of the reason STINK died. So basically I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, like I said I was doing in my very first post this turn. For your benefit, Jond, here's a list of reasons why I think you're suspicious, based off of my first post this game, which basically contained all of my thoughts on the game up until that point. I got the impression that you were overly defensive while being confronted by El on Day 1 Lopen, who died at the end of the turn, said very little, although one thing he said was that he had a paranoid theory about you being evil with El, as unlikely as it was. I suspect the reason why he was killed by the elims was because something he said was a bit too close to the truth, so you decided to get rid of him before he could focus on you more. When El began accumulating votes, you disagreed it was a bandwagon and also said you weren't very suspicious of her. I think you did this because a teammate of yours (STINK) had already expressed suspicions of El, and so you decided to take the opposite stance to prevent parallels from being drawn between you two. When Mage asked what STINK's thoughts were on you, Jond, he didn't answer the question and made comments like “my suspicions turned out wrong” and “I haven’t really had time to look at anyone’s posts in detail” yet. I believe he said this because he wanted an excuse not to have to comment on his teammate And then there's the recent evidence from the previous cycle, as well as Mage's potentially redeemable actions. So yeah. That about covers it.

That's right.

#ughDani #yudodis (3) Magestar: Doctor12, I_am_a_STICK, Jondesu, (2) Jondesu: Nyali, Amanuensis, (2) Doctor12: Ecthelion III, Magestar, (2) Nyali: Clanky, Daniyah, Like I said in my previous post, Nyali was paying attention to the game near turnover. Enough to place a vote on STINK. I personally think she's too smart to have let a kill go to waste in that scenario. Also, Nyali, Clanky replaced Darkness Ascendant.

I wanted to see where things stood right now, so here's a vote tally. (3) Magestar: Doctor12, I_am_a_STICK, Jondesu, (2) Jondesu: Nyali, Amanuensis, (2) Doctor12: Ecthelion III, Magestar, (1) Nyali: Clanky, I had forgotten Jond voted for Mage, so that kinda puts a damper on my their-in-it-together theory. I suppose Jond's vote could have been an attempt at distancing them should one die, but that would have been a lot more effective had Mage not tried to deflect the lynch to a third party. Sooo yeah, more likely that the two are not on the same team, and more likely that Jond is the evil one between them. Also, I agree that Nyali is suspicious, Clanky, but she was also present at the very end of the last turn, which is a large part of the reason why I'm less suspicious of Mage. I would expect that especially Nyali would put a kill order in. Also, since I do think you're a little suspicious too (not for anything you said yet, just because of your absence and the lack of a kill), I do find it interesting that you're trying to create a lynch on a 4th party now. Makes me wonder if you're evil with one of those up with the lynch. #paranoia #welcometoSE

I'm at work now, so I can't do as much research / answer as thoroughly as I would otherwise. But no. I would not support a Doc lynch. The fact remains that Jondesu is towards the top, if not balancing on the very tip, of my List of Suspicious Persons™, with you hanging by a thread just a few inches below. While I may agree with some of your points about Doc, I think their less likely than what I believe happened with Jond. The thing with Jond is, yes, he's done some shady things, but you've been gunning for him since even before the significant ones surfaced, and now that the consensus of your alignment suddenly hinges on whether or not he is evil, you're starting to act a bit panicked, in my opinion. But if you're evil and he's village, why would you panic about that? You'd want us to lynch him so that your team gets a little closer to their goal before you're removed. So now I'm wondering if you're both teammates, and that you were gunning for him from the start to distance yourself from him, a strategy you saw me do in MR10 with Kynedath during a recent reread, except for you it appears to be backfiring. With the information I have now, I think this scenario is a tad bit more likely. Yes, Doc was involved in every mislynch so far and didn't vote for STINK, but from what I can recall (I'll have to double check this later) all of his votes were early on in the turn and he never tried to manipulate the lynch or redirect it. It's that effort that suggests some level of extra information and coordination, which in a vanilla game like this, is what I believe will lead us to the elims. So again, no. I'm not going to retract my vote from Jond, especially now. With what information I have and the analyses I've conducted, it's most likely that one of you are an elim, and until this last post of yours, I thought lynching one would prove the other innocent (or perhaps not). Now that it's possible I could catch two of you at once, I definitely won't back down. The main point in your favor over Jond is that if you are an elim and went along with a bus STINK plan, then I'm certain you would have killed someone last night. If I was in STINK's teammates shoes, I would have definitely made sure someone died in retaliation, as every missed kill is an extra turn the villagers get to find and kill them. Either way, my suspicions of Polking and Clanky have increased significantly, since they were both entirely absent the previous turn, which I think was a factor in the lack of a kill. While it could have been intentional in order to frame inactives, I find that less likely, as (I'm pretty sure, I'll have to ask El unless someone wants to do the research on this) that the lack of an elim kill is almost always due to a lack of coordination or inactivity.

I'm pretty sure it can't reverse her aging unless she explitly tries to make it, which would require a lot of meditation by my guess. If the pictures of the Heralds are accurate, then stormlight automatically making people young age would have given him his youth back. Since it seems it didn't, given the fact he's depicted that way, I suspect it won't change her appearance, but certainly make her stronger / heal her body of any injuries. That does make me wonder about Renarin's eyesight, though, because it gets healed when I would think someone who wears glasses every day automatically associates it with their identity, much like Kaladin does with the slave brand. Hm.

This is pretty off-topic, buuut this prompted to look at that passage from the Jasnah Prologue, and it's pretty clear that Nale is talking to Kalak. He's concerned about Ash and is upset that Szeth possesses the Honorblade of the Windrunners (Jezrien's). I also suspect the reason why Jezrien is at the Beggar's Feast is because Kalak appears to be his caretaker (after he presumably became an alcoholic / insane). Sorry about diverting the conversation here, but I just found this interesting and wanted to write it out. This did at least confirm Tashi isn't any of those three, though now that I think about it Ishar is a possibility, based off of Naln's comment. Given he is the Herald of Luck, maybe he's somehow became incredibly unlucky since (perhaps by approaching the Nightwatcher?) and now brings disaster wherever he goes?

I think Sel most definitely applies, because the Shards (or at least their bits and pieces) still reside there. They just don't have a living Vessel controlling them (although I would not be surprised if large amounts of them were held by either Skai and Aona's Cognitive Shadows, or perhaps by the self-aware countries/continents, similar to how Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow and the Stormfather fused).