Cemci

You can't expect the audience to follow along when you say 'Adolin is 23 in the story, but since the calendar is different to our Gregorian calendar, he would really be closer to 27'. If Adolin is 23 in the story, you cast someone who can pass for 23, because - and no offense - the people on this forum are the nerds who read the books. The age calculation would never fly with the general public, who don't know the story and don't have the patience to ask why Kaladin, who is 19, is deliberately being made to look 27.

Might be worth noting that after the Knights Radiant fell, the normal people needed a gemstone to bind the dead spren-Blades. I agree entirely with Secret Ardent Man, the Nahel Bond replaces the gemstone and allows spren to bond directly to a human. Since the bond wasn't there after the Recreance, people could only bond with the dead Shardblades when they added a gemstone in the pommel.

Is connected to Cultivation, not just Wyndle, I think.

I think it's possible that Vorin culture is the kind where either everyone is right-handed naturally, or alternatively lefties go full rebel and put on a glove, or alternatively leftie-women are forced to learn everything right-handed. The last one was a trend for children in our universe after all, I think it's not unrealistic to believe that Vorin society dictate that women do everything right-handed, no matter how difficult. However, we don't actually know any left-handed Vorin women, or the ones we do know do everything right-handed anyway.

No, maxal, you're mission impossible. But since I find this highly entertaining, here's Mackenzie Foy (14, American) for Shallan! Yes, I know, she's quite young for the part, but since no Stormlight Archive movie could realistically be greenlit within the next 2 years, I'll just go ahead and age her up a little for the movie. She was young Murph in Interstellar, and did quite well (she was also Renesmee in Twilight, but let's ignore that for now). I think she fits the physical profile very well though, with a somewhat redder hair.

I realise we're concentrating a bit much on Adolin, but how about this guy: Alex Pettyfer, 25, British (got the right accent? might be worth making the eye-colour difference obvious with a difference in accents) Has a bit of a douche-bag vibe about him, but Kaladin's perception of Adolin as a spoiled brat should come from somewhere, after all. EDIT: Is it even relevant to discuss a whole bunch of white and caucasian actors for characters that are definitely not? We're engaging in some serious white-washing here.

This is hilarious you're impossible to satisfy! Nobody on this thread is ever going to agree on a single actor to play a character. So how about we agree on a range of different actors that would fit the profile? I for one don't get the Shallan vibe from Chloe Grace Moretz - Chloe is a little....too girly?... to play Shallan, I think. Shallan has some dark parts, she killed both her parents after all, even though she isn't always in a normal state of mind, having repressed the memories. She's also quite pragmatic, I think. She's deeply disturbed when Jasnah kills the thugs, but shrugs off murdering Tyn within a few seconds.

On a side note, how about this for Adolin? Anthony Ingruber (25, Canadian) - has been cast for his resemblance to a young Harrison Ford, and didn't do too badly as far as the acting went.

This. The actors you mention aren't necessarily bad (I quite like Logan Lerman), but bad acting can break a film; since we're talking about our own fantasy casting, it's riskier to go with people who are less known for quality acting but who fit the age and look description. Personally, I would be willing to accept actors that are slightly older than the characters, because the age isn't a massive qualifier for me in the books. In my mind, it doesn't matter whether Shallan looks 14, 17 or 21, because at 21 you can look childish and frazzled enough to be patronised by the Alethi court. And this wouldn't be the first time that aging up a cast has worked; how difficult do you think it would have been to find a 11-year old Sansa for Game of Thrones? Sophie Turner looked nothing like 11 in Season 1.

The gemhearts in greatshells are enormous by the way, and the Parshendi are only a little taller than humans. They probably don't have all the anatomy of humans, but it's fair to assume that they don't have gemhearts the size of human heads inside them. If Parshendi develop gemhearts, they're nowhere near as big as the greatshells'. Also, Knights Radiant in general do have human anatomy, so I would say no to KR developing gemhearts, at least not without developing some serious medical issues (the human body doesn't exactly have a great amount of space left inside it to develop a gemheart). I don't think that Parshendi can hold Stormlight, otherwise I reckon we might have seen it in Eshonai's viewpoint right? And holding Stormlight and wearing Shartplate tend to go against one another because the Plate drains the Stormlight from the user (what happened to Kaladin in the arena with the helmet). Parshendi can bond spren, this is what they do during the storms, but by no means is that the same as a Nahel bond. Finally, Bridge 4 cut off the armour of the Parshendi, but that doesn't mean they hacked the bodies to pieces. Depending on how thick the armour plates are it's entirely possible that Bridge 4 removed the armour and didn't get a great look at Parshendi anatomy.

I think just killing Sadeas won't be enough to break Adolin's spirit in the same way Shallan (family life), Kaladin (Tien's death), Dalinar (Gavilar's death) and Renarin (epilepsy perhaps? or in any case childhood experiences) were broken. I think we'll need a lot of things to pile up and put pressure on Adolin for him to crack - killing Sadeas is only the first step, what will have a more significant impact will be the consequences of that killing. Regarding Ialai, I think her involvement will be contributing less to Adolin's guilt and more towards his physical demise. Remember that Ialai has an apparently impressive spy and assassin network; from what we've seen of Torol's and Ialai's interactions, Sadeas was only really able to carry out his attempts on the Kholins because of Ialai's help ('we may have to start using your assassins'). Jasnah's notes on the Sadeas couple said that Ialai is also politically shrewd, so you're right in that killing Sadeas didn't accomplish a whole lot, but I think Sadeas' death could potentially put Adolin at least (I think Ialai will figure out fairly quickly that Sadeas' death came at the hands of somebody close to the Kholins) in serious danger.

My point wasn't that Adolin could never be a Radiant because of who or the fact that he murdered, my point was that this murder excludes him from certain orders. There's a WoB that certain orders would be very happy with what he did, but I don't think spren from the other orders (orders who would disapprove of Adolin's actions) would stay around Adolin in the hope that he redeems himself in the eyes of the spren. I think Jasnah probably didn't lose her bond to Ivory even though she killed those thugs in Karbranth because the Elsecallers are technically okay with seeking out and removing evil for the greater good.

Fair point that Kaladin doesn't always behave according to the Windrunner ideals, but as a result, he loses his connection to Syl. In WoR, when he can't keep promises to Dalinar and Moash and remain honourable, his bond to Syl weakens. However, Kaladin redeems himself when he stands up to Moash and does what is right by protecting Elhokar. Adolin isn't exactly capable of redemption; he doesn't have a Nahel bond to redeem himself, and he has already murdered somebody - Kaladin stops himself before it comes to the point where he lets somebody die. I think taking actions that orders do not approve of probably stops the 'recruiting' spren from bonding with you - I don't get the impression that they stick around thinking 'maybe he'll redeem himself'. The relationship between spren and humans is more complicated, and spren in general don't necessarily trust in the goodness of mankind.

Someone has a high opinion of themselves...how do you know that you're pronouncing Rock's name perfectly?

To add one more thing on Dalinar: I don't think old Dalinar would do anything other than kill or capture and interrogate an assassin; he certainly wouldn't presume the guy into joining his elite. Young Dalinar is quite flippant about assassination attempts, although that probably has something to do with his general arrogance (assassination attempts aren't a 'serious threat' to my life). Also, I think old Dalinar also doesn't have an elite anymore; he had the Cobalt Guard in WoK, but I always assumed, since their primary purpose seems to be protecting Dalinar and his family (Dalinar eventually moves the Cobalt Guard to the field when Kaladin takes over as bodyguard), that they were more bodyguard than elite.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, and I agree that the dynamic where society is segregated via eye-colour is problematic. However, you should know that this dynamic between light-eyes and dark-eyes does not hold true for every character. Kaladin, for example, actively fights this system, and it is questioned by other characters at various points in the series. There are instances where characters from one segment stand up to and for the other. In my personal opinion, Brandon Sanderson isn't trying to make mock of the segregation, which is a very serious problem in our societies, he is trying to explore the dynamic between the different factions and provide a parallel to our own universe. If you continue reading, you'll find many instances where lighteyes show solidarity with darkeyes and where darkeyes break the societal restrictions laid on them.

Keep in mind that Adolin wins a whole bunch of Shards in WoR. By the end of WoR, the Kholins have the single largest collection of Shardbearers. Adolin won a Shardblade from Salinor (which went to Renarin), a set of Plate from Eranniv, another set of Plate from Elit, and then three new sets of Plate (Abrobadar, Jakamav and Relis) and two new Blades (Abrobadar and Relis). That's why there appear to be Shards all over the place in WoR. That's 3 Blades and 5 sets of Plate the Kholins gain over the course of WoR, in addition to the full set Adolin has and Dalinar's Plate, which is worn by Renarin. More emphasis is placed on Shards in WoR than in WoK, because Dalinar uses the disarming as a tool to put the other highprinces under his control. On top of all that is the Blade Taln wields when he's brought into the Kholin warcamp, which Dalinar uses to trick Amaram. Elhokar has his own personal set and his fathers I think, which I guess would stay in possession of the crown. And yeah, Sadeas says they're rare because he really wants a Blade (he eventually gets Oathbringer) and has always failed to get one in battle (the Parshendi only have one set of Shards left with Eshonai).

The hardships that Shallan, Kaladin and Renarin (being called 'the useless one') went through are sort of what make me look forward to Adolin's storyline. There have been too many hints at his potential future to now drop an execution sentence on him for that little murder, and so anything that happens to him will impact not only him, but people around him. All the Urithiru-based Radiants we know of are close to Adolin - Kaladin as a close friend (or something similar to a friend), Shallan as betrothed, Renarin and Dalinar as direct family. Any hardship that Adolin goes through (I'm in the RadiantAdolin camp) will affect how his relationships function. Adolin isn't just uncertain in future books, he's one of the only uncertain elements we currently have. We can guess at what Kaladin might experience going back to Hearthstone, we can guess what Shallan, Renarin and Dalinar might so, but there's no telling what Adolin will do or what will happen to him, which is why he's so fascinating.

I recently went to a signing and heard Sanderson pronounce Sadeas' name 'SAD-eeas', although I'd always pronounced his name 'sad-E-as'. In my mind, almost all the bridgemen are also quite lanky, although carrying bridges has definitely made them more muscular. And I completely fail in imagining Renarin and Adolin with any kind of blonde in their hair. When I picture Adolin's date with Shallan, his hair is either completely blonde or completely black (Shallan is reddish-ginger, not completely red) and Renarin is always black, although both have a confusing mix of both.

Since the war in the flashback takes place while Gavilar and Dalinar's father is still alive, that not only puts Dalinars arrogance in further perspective (the second son of a major princedom, not the brother of anybody important yet), but also makes the comment 'Gavilar chooses, I just go where he points me' even worse, since we don't know what Gavilar's ambition was in waging this war (for a legitimate reason, shouldn't it be the Kholin highprince who declares war and points Dalinar in any direction?). In that regard, it's quite strange that Dalinar doesn't really think about whether he is justified in passing judgement on the other highprinces, whose behaviour pales in comparison to what Dalinar used to do. The Alethi highprinces in WoR are engaged in war against the Parshendi, declared by the king, and show coordination in fighting the Parshendi. The Parshendi know why they're being attacked and the only vaguely questionable war conduct shown by the Alethi would be Sadeas' refusal to let anybody who surrendered alive.

Dalinar killed these people during war, which is different to both Adolin's killing of Sadeas in a side corridor and Szeth's deliberate assassinations. I think the premise of war, as well as Dalinar's status as brother of a highprince/king (I'm assuming this flashback may have happened during Alethkar's war of unification) essentially give him a carte blanche in this. Adolin's and Sadeas' fight happened in a side corridor, at a time of peace between the Alethi armies, so technically Adolin did the murdering, not Dalinar. I would still consider Adolin's conduct less terrible, both because Alethi society considers murder acceptable as long as it's not done openly, and because of Dalinar's attitude and callousness regarding civilians in war (which in our universe would be a breach of war-time conduct). We obviously haven't seen the last of Dalinar's boon/curse with the Nightwatcher, but considering that Adolin was seemingly very attached to his mother, and apparently misses her, learning that Dalinar doesn't remember her as a result of his visit to the Nightwatcher could potentially be a breaking point in their relationship. If Adolin were to find out the kind of person the Blackthorn really was, I think Adolin's relationship with his father could collapse, or at the very least radically change.

This is my complete speculation, but this flashback happens long before Dalinar goes to look for the Nightwatcher, long before he meets shshshsh, but presumably not far off the point where Navani and Gavilar marry (Elhokar is 27 or so I think, which might put his birth 3-5 years after the flashback, depending on whether Dalinar is 18 or 20, and depending on whether the flashback is actually 30 years ago, or really 34 or so). What we see of the Blackthorn is probably routine for him at this point, but I think it's possible that his behaviour stems at least partly from jealousy of his older brother. Old Dalinar reflects a few times on how jealous he was of Gavilar, wondering why Renarin isn't jealous of Adolin for example or remembering the time Dalinar nearly tried to kill Gavilar. Edit: Actually, one second. Jasnah is 34. I think Navani and Gavilar probably are married at the point of this flashback; young Dalinar was crushed.

I agree that Dalinar and Adolin's fighting styles are completely different. Adolin has been described by Dalinar as 'a master artist with paint of only one shade'; Adolin fights what I always assumed to be a very talented and skillful way. His preference for duels shows that he doesn't revel in the slaughter as much as Dalinar, whose style is entirely different. Like maxal said, Dalinar fights brutally, smashing, crushing and destroying his enemies. To give a WoR parallel, Dalinar says of one of Adolin's duels that the best fights were those you won quickly, and with extreme advantage (that's old Dalinar saying so). Adolin's appreciation of duels is based on the idea that duels allow a staged challenge, 'man against man, mind against mind' I think the wording was in WoK or WoR; in any case, different from the butchery we see of the Blackthorn.

How do you mark spoilers? There's spoilers all over the place in the following paragraphs. Also, both Dalinar and Adolin show a certain disregard for eye-colour. Counter to what we know of Alethi society and their segregation in this way, Dalinar hand-picked his elite, including dark-eyes. That shows to me that he pays attention to the less highly-ranked soldiers; he promoted his soldiers based on merit, and he doesn't think a position in his elite is guaranteed through being a light-eyes. Also, we can guess that Dalinar probably won both his Shardblade and Shardplate. He doesn't have them yet in the flashback. He also doesn't have Gallant yet (I don't think a man like flash-back Dalinar would name his Ryshadium 'Gallant'). Adolin inherited a set of Plate when he was 16 or so from his mother's side, Dalinar is older than that at this point. Also, considering that he is such a prolific warrior at that age, I would expect that, if his family had sets of plate to give on to their sons, Dalinar would have one by the point of the flashback. Either Dalinar also got Shards through his marriage (in which case his wife's family has a surprising amount of shards to hand out to the Kholins), or Dalinar got them through conquest. I think the most interesting observation about this chapter could be Dalinar's character and the difference to what Adolin perceives of his father. Obviously Adolin only knows the honourable Dalinar, but when Dalinar's sanity was in question in WoK, Adolin wanted to get the Blackthorn back, the see his father in his 'glory days', so to speak. Seeing how Dalinar conducts himself towards opponents on the battlefield, I don't think Adolin really knew what he was thinking when he wished for the Blackthorn to return, because Adolin himself shows more honour on the battlefield than the Blackthorn did. On a side note, Dalinar's arrogance and the arrogance Kaladin perceives of Adolin are differences like day and night.

Kaladin wasn't particularly confused about Renarin's epilepsy. He figures out fairly quickly that Renarin has myoclonic epilepsy, asks Renarin if he's been given bitterleaf to chew, and figures that it's probably quite normal as seizures go that Renarin typically grows weak on only one side of his body. He asks Renarin if he's had any consistent relaxation of muscles in one half of his body (sign of stroke). (I'm not a medical expert) Plus, the blade screaming in your head wouldn't necessarily cause uncontrollable twitching or jerking arms. And Renarin does admit that the seizures are confined to twitching, arm-jerking or growing really weak. We've seen Renarin handle a blade, and in those cases, he appeared fine, except for the sigh of relief he gives off when he dismisses the blade.