Serack

@LewsTherinTelescope I happened to have read the E=MC2 WoB yesterday and was pleased to see that you got to share your own WoB as a response here. It seems Brandon has gotten to the point where he recognizes you in these discussions.

First, There are some awesome insights here, thank you so much for putting them together and sharing them. I'm particularly fascinated by the parallel between the spider leg like things and carapace leg things between Ruin's manifestation and Ulim's when they are PO'd With the way the Nightblood question was worded "contain" he could be very easily referring to something very differently from what you seem to be supposing here. Brandon makes frequent references to Nightblood consuming the investiture he is powered off of (either from the wielder or that he cuts through) and thus as he has consumed investiture that is of ruin, he "contains" it now, but not necessarily as part of his genesis. OTOH, since his command word had "destroy" in it, perhaps you are completely right. I'm just trying to point out that the WoB you cited could mean something else entirely. Here is an example WoB I don't get why you say this: Didn't we see Ulim himself bond Venli multiple times by inhabiting her gem heart? And aren't pretty much all regal "forms of power" derived from bonding with a Voidspren? That's what the wiki says at least. Or if by "anybody" you mean humans, well @Halyo_Alex thought of something I wouldn't have.

Skipping some of the responses sorry, We don't know the mechanics of how the Heralds obtain physical bodies when they return from succumbing to pressure on Braise. Dalinar's perceiving the bonds when he touched Nael demonstrated that their bond to the oath pact is already weakened except for Taln. Presumably killing one with a weakened bond, with that knife, didn't just sever their connection with that physical realm body, but also with the pact that is somehow responsible for it and their immortality. This may be a function of the aluminum itself, but more specifically of the aluminum siphoning off their "shadow" into the gem instead of to Braise as the oathpact usually did when they die.

@Silarn, as responding to your post is part of the genesis of the topic I'm glad to see you enjoyed it, and I wouldn't have seen so if you hadn't responded. Please, take a look at the link in my sig for more stuff like this that I've written or that others have, that I particularly enjoyed.

Although this might play a roll, there is some discussion that the reinstatement of Ba-Ado-Mishram may heal Roshar's deadeyes and I've furthered that theory to how it may also help with the Herald's magically afflicted mental maladies. Edit: Also, helping a malleable child with forgetting the trauma of a single event is probably not a big deal, but erasing the trauma of millennia of torture from a cognitive shadow may unweave the entire being.

Any knowledge Todium my have of the binding agreement between his power and Hoid would be intrinsic to the power and would probably require the shard hosting the power to actively contemplate it to actually know what is going on there. Which is to say, Todium probably wasn't totally aware of the details of the animosity between Rayse and Hoid, or their contract and thus just blundered into taking advantage of Hoid making himself vulnerable in a way Rayse may not have thought to do thinking the contract still bound him.

I think that may be generally true, but in Secret History, Leras told Kelsier that he deliberately crafted Alomancy to have 16 metals as a sign to humanity that Ati couldn't change.

I explained my thoughts on why the Dawncities are shaped how they are in another topic which I will quote: I think it’s more like that’s the tone that resonated in that part of the world and the singers sang it into the shape of the city which resonates with that sound. Effectively all 3 make that sound. The land, the singers who shaped the land into that shape, and the shape itself makes the sound like a tuning fork makes its tune because of its shape. Btw, this WoB is very relevant to some of your comments about the building of the dawncities

@Leuthie, this topic getting listed in the "Theory Thursday" collection of theories caused me to find out about some posts I missed over the holidays, and the one linked below offers a narrative of the circum-shattering times that is incredibly compelling. It also opens with a hugely inciteful theory and a derivative theory that are AMAZING. @Lunu’anaki, I don't see any comments from you and I've enjoyed your input on my topics and others, so I'm pinging you too.

Late to the party. Just the opening bit of your post theorizing that the Unmade are the spren of the Dawncities made my jaw drop. It's theoretical but it is the kind of theoretical leap that is INSPIRING! But no, you didn't stop there, you went on and wove a great narrative on what could have happened in the ancient past that also looks pretty darn good. I've come back to read it again (after coming across your topic for the first time yesterday), and it just occurred to me that some of your narrative about Hoid and the eventual shards running into Roshar and becoming jealous and resenting it fits well with how Hoid speaks so derogatorily of the fauna of the planet.

This WoB is juicy for trying to contemplate stuff like our thoughts.

Thanks for the recognition. How many members are on the "staff"?

This WoB I came across yesterday may inform your thoughts on this:

@Lunu’anaki, @LewsTherinTelescope I love when people share insightful quotes to back their insightful posts. Having built a website for Jim Butcher that is a lesser version of the Arcanum (and that i've fallen off of updating), I'm in awe of what those guys have accomplished and how it contributes to this community.

It is occurring to me that there are some qualities of Lightweavers that would make them ideal for performing R&D along the lines of what happened in Rhythm of War. I'm having trouble finding WoB that is explicit on this, but I seem to remember him saying that Lightweaving, fundamentally allows for the manipulation of WAVES, be they electromagnetic or sound, and the crux of the Rhythm of War research was about using sound waves, specific tones, and patterns or rhythms in those tones to manipulate and create investiture or anti-investiture "light." Add to this the nature of their spren the Cryptics, which as part of their being and identity are manifestations of complex mathematical patterns, and they are particularly fascinated by this type of thing. Properly working together, a lightweaver and his or her cryptic spren should be a powerful research team in exploring how sound can manipulate investiture light and or anti-light. Truthwatchers get some form of lightweaving too, and we don't know much about their spren, and having our prime example be a spren "corrupted" makes evaluating them for this purpose even more difficult, but it's entirely possible that they would excel just as well or even better at this kind of thing.

NP, check the comments back and forth between myself and @Honorless a couple responses down where I boiled the possibilities down after considering that detail.

One thing that might deviate from that narrative. There is some reason to believe that the Heralds were around even before the shattering of Aldonasium. The question becomes did Travinast move them to Ashyn post shattering, or did they already live there. If they did live there pre-shattering were they already Travinast’s homies pre-shattering and he and Hoid were already world hoppers before the shattering.

@Leuthie that tracks very well with what I hadn’t managed to articulate even to myself but had vague opinions on. Well described

Skipping reading the further replies to share that I already looked this WoB up and it's Hoid that the WoB is about. I wanted to say most of what people have already done a good job expressing about what is good about how this has been written, but the OP does have some valid points.

I would characterize the gedanken experiment stone's "memories" as distinct from the "person's memories" (the term you used) in ways that I described in my above post.

Great post @Lunu’anaki

Further thoughts. As viewed from the Cognitive Realm of Roshar, living beings appear as a flame, while inanimate objects appear as a bead. I would expect that upon death, the body becomes a bead, and the rest of the flame becomes the typically short lived cognitive shadow that moves "beyond." I would further theorize that all the cognitive memories of the person move on with that cognitive shadow, however the bead spren of the body may retain some memory of the physical experiences that the body had. The bead probably won't remember what breakfast tasted like, or why they chose to eat leftover lavis bread for their last breakfast, but they may retain the memory that their last breakfast was lavis bread.

I am a stick. In other words, it seems that in the act of soulcasting, you already commune with the spren of the object you are transforming, and the Deepest one stipulation is redundant. As for the spren of the corpse or stone casting of the corpse having memories of the individual that the corpse used to be... maybe?

Brandon has discussed that Aldonasium built/created Roshar, both the planet, the continent, and even the dynamics of the moons. (WoBs spoilered to condense the topic, there are a LOT of WoBs on this subject so these are just 3 that are particularly juicy. Emphasis mine) We don't know much about the being that was Aldonasium, or his shattering, but I do suspect that he had enough foresight to expect that something like what happened to him would come about and that he also had the foresight and compassion to try to mitigate the fallout. Thus, it is my theory that Roshar was designed to entrap and re-forge shards of Aldonasim together. Specifically Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. The Rosharan system resonates with the "pure tones" of the three shards involved with the system, and consdering WoB is that "the moons existed before the gods came" I think it's likely that those "pure tones" of Roshar, tuned specifically for those shards were there beforehand too.* RoW established that a tuning fork with the appropriate tone can attract and manipulate investiture-light and beings comprised of investiture (spren) associated with that tone. Roshar is an entire planet/system tuned to these 3 tones. These resultant tones of Roshar affect the shards on the planet resonating with their investiture and making it more potent on the physical realm, but also enhancing their connection to the planetary system, making it so that they can't leave. Trapped like a spren in a gemstone. But Roshar has more than just tones, but rhythms as well, and the integrated Warlight is associated with a rhythm of Roshar that Raboniel named the Rhythm of War. I suspect these Rhythms are a construct made by Aldonasim to facilitate the re-integration of his intents. The Sibling and Towerlight are a function of this Rhythm design of Roshar, compelling the habituating shards of the planet to integrate their investiture. And Odium has been around long enough that the system's resonating with his investiture "tone" has compelled it to "harmonize" with Honor to produce The Rhythm of War. As events progress, further integration will occur, possibly culminating in the 3 shards themselves coalescing into a new combined shard like Harmony. *I have suspicions that although the planet was tuned to these 3 tones, it may not have been actively resonating with them until later. I'll be generating a response on this aspect later. edit: linking to a post that does a fantastic job of collecting all the WoB and much of the in book information on the formation of Roshar building up to its own theory on its purpose.

Your topic title is rather spoilery