kari-no-sugata

Certainly there is a real risk and Shallan confronting it again would make for a dramatic way for Shallan to truly confront herself. But confronting yourself is a classic trial for a hero to face. I'm sure there'll be lots of trials for the main characters to go through but I think people get way too excited about the possibility of a hero turning to the "dark side", as if it's the only way you ever get bad guys. I would suggest that by far the biggest risk factor for Odium's Champion are those who haven't already bonded a spren but are "broken" enough and also have strong desires or goals.

Hmm, interesting. Yeah, Regrowth would probably be better...

Well, considering that Shallan just drove off a piece of Odium, it seems a tad premature to start shoving her into the Odium's Champion pigeonhole. I'm not sure that Shallan has a real connection to the Unmade, except in the sense that it knows her. I wonder if Shallan will confront it again during OB or in a future book? I suspect she'll need a full Radiant bond to face it for real and have any chance of destroying it or similar. Besides, Shallan has the ultimate plot armour - no Shallan, no sketchbook. If another gifted artist turns up, maybe we can start to worry though

When the Stormphone rings, you WILL answer. Whether you like it or not. I seem to remember Brandon saying there were some interesting POVs in Part 2, or something like that. So I'm guessing that'll be some world leaders.

An interesting thought... All or most of the books have decayed, unsurprisingly. How well paper lasts depends upon a lot of factors but it's rare for it preserve well across 1500 years, or however long it has been since the tower was abandoned. So anyway... books should have a spren / cognitive part. They should "remember" what they were. Maybe they can be restored with Soulcasting?

Based on Dalinar's visions, the Unmade existed well before the last Desolation. It would be interesting to know if they came before the first Radiants (or rather, spren-based Surgebinders since they weren't known as Radiants at first). I wouldn't necessarily assume that there is one Unmade per original Radiant spren. There might not be a direct correlation. I can certainly imagine scenarios where Odium saw what the "Radiantspren" were up to and created his own analogue to try to corrupt the Radiants, but it could also be unrelated and that the example here is a rare case of an overlap.

Whee! That was good. A great set of chapters. Go go Lightweavers! (Meek little kittens they are not) I guess that partly explains why Shallan could feel it so much better. I guess Renarin could feel it from his Illumination Surge? Lots of development. Dalinar has pretty much lost the political fight but finds a way to turn it around. Oathbringer was finally found (surprised it took so long) Shallan is definitely getting stronger in some ways (she could wield Patternblade as herself) but it's not all progress. I'm very glad that she wasn't too foolhardy here. Very happy to see Adolin, Renarin and Bridge 4 all get involved. Yay! So, it was an Unmade after all and was imprisoned by an ancient Lightweaver. Very interesting. Is this from the Recreance period or what?

Jasnah did say that "It's more bluster than storm" For the first meeting with Mraize, I think she would have been in serious danger if she had acted like a gopher (ie disposable) or made a big mistake, or maybe if she hadn't avoided Iyatil's tail. I wouldn't be surprised if Mraize already suspected that Shallan might have bumped off Tyn. From Mraize's point of view, he's not a two-bit criminal leading a bunch of disposable types, so he wouldn't kill someone with potential which is why he gave Shallan a test. On the second meeting, he had thought she had failed and so was disappointed. I think she would have been in real danger if she hadn't in fact succeeded. However, she was in genuine danger when she revealed she had a photographic memory, which is what led to the cab driver being killed. So she could definitely have died there and more than once. He's not exactly humble is he... PS Anyway, next set of chapters should be out very soon. It seems like Shallan's like arc with this Odium spren or whatever might well be concluded in Part 1, in which case I would expect about 3 of the remaining chapters to be from her POV or those involved with whatever she's getting up to (I would very much like to see an Adolin POV with Shallan around). I'm not sure if we'll get another Kaladin chapter in Part 1.

Given that Shallan hates herself (and has for a long time I think), I'm not sure her attitude is everyday over-confidence due to her ability to heal from Stormlight. Back in WoR she took risks with her life too even without that knowledge, though yes, I'm pretty sure that she's gotten worse here. I don't mean that she has a death wish though - more like she doesn't value her own life that highly. I also think part of the reason is that she doesn't want to risk others (eg that coachman in that Ghostblood chapter in WoR). I think Shallan deciding to take responsibility for her men will be important in multiple ways. I think she's quite uncomfortable with being responsible for others in the general sense (her brothers being more of a special case). It'll be interesting to see how she treats her men long term - will she treat them like soldiers or will she treat them more like an extended family / friends? Her actions at the end of the latest chapter seems to indicate that she is willing to start including them in her activities even though it'll carry risks for them. That might extend to regular guard duty as well. Another thing on the foreshadowing front: This is another area where Shallan could and should take more responsibility. I expect we'll start to see her engage in such things as well. Eventually.

We see in the case of the Mistborn secret histories that there can be a surprising amount going on in the background that’s not always clear in the main text, though there are hints. We also saw that with Vin’s “luck” that it is possible to do something even if you don’t really know how or what it is. Some things can be foreshadowing of future events in the same book or future events in the overall series. Going back to Shallan and WoR, perhaps the scene that breaks the suspension of disbelief for most readers is when she turns the deserters who about to attack her into allies. Such a thing is not foreshadowed in any obvious way and it’s not really explained properly afterwards. In tWoK there’s various points where Kaladin seems unnaturally lucky but on a second read it can be seen that this is foreshadowing his Radiant powers. We don’t seem to get this with Shallan here. However, some things are easier to foreshadow and explain than others. Kaladin’s Surges are quite “physical” and it seems there isn’t a mental or spiritual effect on those around him. However, Shallan’s powers definitely include more subtle effects - for example, her sort-of clairvoyance with her random sketches on the way to the warcamps was confirmed as being real. These are the only WoBs I could find on the subject of the deserters: Even Shallan was shocked that what she attempted worked. Pattern specifically says that Shallan used the power of transformation as well: This is a very strong suggestion that there's more to the Surge of Transformation than Soulcasting and that this is what Shallan was doing here. It's not proof of course but I don't see why Pattern would go out of his way to say this otherwise - if he was being figurative wouldn't he have been much vaguer? Instead he talks about transformation three times - he's very insistent on it. However, this doesn't tell us what exactly Shallan did, or how it worked, or how big an effect it had. Shallan herself considers it to be an unbelievable result though. There's also this from the in-world WoR: So essentially, the Lightweavers inspired the other Orders during a time of crisis, according to this snippet. I don't think we saw Pattern confirm or deny this particular bit though, so it's hard to say how reliable it is. All in all, it seems that the Lightweavers have a history of inspiring others, that Shallan has had a history of inspiring others and that her success with the deserters doesn't seem to be down to luck. If so then we should reasonably expect to see such things in OB and future books. Shallan's solo play might be something that we see again, but this time with real viewers and we might see a strong effect on them, for example. PS I wouldn't be surprised if Shallan's use of her personas is another case where she is combining her two Surges. ie it's more than a mental trick or skill. Presumably both effects are temporary though there might be long term effects from prolonged usage, like with many magics in the Cosmere.

Even if we just look at her Surgebinding, Shallan had a number of failures in WoR: Chapter 6, on ship - turns the deck green unintentionally - prompted by Pattern. Chapter 7, during attack - with prompt from old memory, sucks in Stormlight and shapes it into something vaguely humanoid. Enough to distract the attackers. Soulcasts the ship. Chapter 11, fails to Soulcast a stick. Chapter 15, with Tvlakv the slaver - unintentionally uses Stormlight to make her clothes look better. Is able to make it fade. Chapter 17, manages to consciously breathe in Stormlight for the first time. Tries to do Lightweaving but fails. Notices that the Stormlight is healing her. Chapter 20, with deserters - makes herself look like a queen, probably using the drawings she did earlier in the day as a reference. Fails to win over Vathah and he orders her captured but the others don't obey and instead run off to help. Seems clear that holding Stormlight helps propel her to action and feel more confident - the more the better. Not clear if she had any effect on sounds - the battle could still be heard after her Stormlight ran out. Chapter 34, when Tyn attacks her she creates a brief diversion - the diversion worked but actual Lightweaving was poor. Shallan does not yet know how to reliably form images. Chapter 38, while with the Highprinces creates and older better looking version of herself, presumably based on the sketch she does in chapter 36. Oddly, we don't specifically see when to started/ended the Lightweaving - only Sebarial's comment later suggests that she was. Chapter 42, sketches "Veil" and immediately uses Lightweaving from it to create her disguise. This is the first time we see a direct connection between her drawings and Lightweaving and also first time we see her creating something different rather than just enhanced. Shallan was a bit surprised it worked and it had a small defect on her nose. Chapter 43, she tries to disguise herself as a large man using a mental image and it fails. She realises she needs a sketch to make Lightweaving work. Sketches a wall and uses Lightweaving of that to hide herself from Iyatil. Chapter 47, attempts to change her hair colour with Lighteaving only using a mental image - fails. Sketches herself and this time it works. Pattern doesn't know why she needs to draw the images - it shouldn't be a requirement. Tries to make the Lightweaving vanish deliberately and fails. Sketches Sebarial from a Memory and creates fully realistic but entirely static Lightweaving of him. Figures out she can suck the Stormlight back in while touching the Lightweaving. Chapter 52, Shallan has determined via testing that her sketches are useful for Lightweaving for at least half a day and over a day tends to fail. She infiltrates Amaram's area with a messenger boy disguise then as a maid. Creates a Lightweaving of Amaram with Pattern providing audio. Chapter 54, visits Ghostbloods as Veil. Disguises herself as a rock to hide from them. Chapter 60, creates image of how she thinks she would be without lies - doesn't need sketch because she feels she knows it so well. Tries for hour to make sound work - fails. Finds out that if she separates too far from an image that it weakens and that Pattern's proximity helps, that she can transfer Stormlight to Pattern to keep the image sharp and that she can attach an image to move with Pattern, though not realistically - so she starts to think about solving that. Chapter 63, makes a shed appear larger than it is to hide herself for hours. Attaches a Lightweaving of Veil to Pattern, which has an animation sequence - though it has a fixed pattern. Dons Veil disguise. Uses quick removal and re-application of disguise to get past guards without Iyatil noticing. Creates ardent disguise from a quick sketch. Chapter 64, turns herself entirely black to hide from Amaram - she didn't have time to create a false wall. Dons Veil disguise again on returning to Iyatil. Chapter 72, while turning herself black to hide creates remote image of herself and then Kaladin to distract the chasmfiend. Chapter 78, Lightweaves small image of Jasnah from recent sketch for Dalinar. Chapter 88, at Pattern's forcing Shallan makes Lightweaving of when her mother died.

I'm not sure how much Shallan (without an o) doing Soulcasting and chatting about Shadesmar would help Dalinar with his problems with the ardents. I agree it would likely help Shallan. Dalinar's "orders" to Shallan and Renarin to investigate their powers was rather vague and it feels a bit of a shame that we're not seeing any real discussion about Radiants and their powers now that it's all in the open. Maybe such things are happening and there are some suggestions that general knowledge about Radiants is spreading. Brandon is trying to pack quite a lot into Part 1 and the viewpoints focus much more on things happening rather than meetings but the various characters seem rather disconnected for the most part. Is this because such things aren't happening or because they needed to be trimmed from Part 1 to keep the plot moving along at a fast enough pace? PS Part of me wonders if Shallan deliberately decided not to investigate Soulcasting to spite the Ghostbloods...

But normal human standards Syl's attitude would be highly unconventional in some areas. She wants Kaladin to be happy and suggests forming a relationship with the ardent girl even it's a one night stand and Kaladin shows no interest. So Syl's attitude is very casual by human standards here. Syl then suggests Shallan because Kaladin "seemed to like her". If she believed that Kaladin had a deep passion for Shallan would she still have suggested the ardent? It's hard to say. Since she says "seems", Syl is uncertain about Kaladin's feelings for Shallan. Certainly she's suggesting to Kaladin that he consider a romantic and/or sexual relationship with Shallan but it's not the same as declaring that Kaladin secretly loves Shallan. So I'm not saying that Syl herself isn't suggesting to Kaladin that he persue a sexual/romantic relationship with Shallan. What I'm saying is that we don't know Kaladin's actual feelings except that for now he clearly shot down the idea and didn't want to discuss it. I'm sure that Syl will try various things to encourage Kaladin to be happy, including pursing relationships, but we don't know what Kaladin will actually do in practice. I'm expecting "something" between Kaladin and Shallan at least but I have no idea if that will actually be significant or not. How do you differentiate between a relationship that will turn into romance and one that won't really go beyond friends in practice? This is what I'm arguing about. "Like" is "friends" territory. It's not mincing words. I'm not really sure about the second half of your post. What I was trying to argue (rather unsuccessfully it seems) is that there's not a big difference between the relationship developments between Adolin and Kaladin and between Shallan and Kaladin, at least so far. There's some hints about maybe something extra being possible between Shallan and Kaladin but also that what's currently there in the books is vague enough that barely any changes would need to be made to remove it entirely. From Shallan's POV, we actually had much clearer signs of romance between her and Kabsal than between her and Kaladin. With regards to friendship interactions between Shallan and Adolin, I'd say that there are quite a few already in OB: as you noted, Adolin teaching Shallan how to wield Shardblades is one. Him looking up some books and bringing them for Shallan when he noticed she seemed a bit out of her depth is another. I'd say that their general banter is another. Shallan hasn't explicitly said why she went to investigate the copycat murders but since she highlights Adolin's struggle with it (twice) it seems that she wanted to help (like she did with coming up with a plan to take down Sadeas in WoR). Adolin going to Shallan for "moral support" could be either but the actual details push it more towards the friendship side. Adolin telling Shallan to take better care of her men is another. In the latest chapter when Adolin called Amaram a bastard and was sent out from the room, Shallan immediately went after him and offered her support.

It would be interesting to know if their Order could fit into the "style" of the others in terms of having specific Oaths... or whether it's just too vague... It's hard to know how much to extrapolate from one person to an entire Order, but yes that's my feeling too. A sort of combination of bard, therapist, supplies (with Soulcasting) and general protection against the evil influence of Odium's minions. It would be interesting to know if Shallan's ability to feel something odd about Urithiru was related to her Order or simply her progression as a Radiant.

We know what Syl was suggesting. That is clear. We also know that Syl was suggesting that he try getting on with that ardent too. Does that tell us anything about Kaladin's opinion of Shallan? No. We know that Syl's opinion of what Kaladin feels for Shallan but it doesn't make it correct. Kaladin's inner thoughts says that Syl is wrong but close. Even if Syl is correct, like is different to love. We don't know what Kaladin actually feels. We can guess of course but it's still a guess.

I'm saying that almost none of their interactions fit inside the scope of them being "just friends" . For example, take this from the latest OB chapter: This particular interaction between Adolin and Shallan is one of the more "friend-like but not specifically romantic" interactions that they have. Shallan taking Adolin's arm makes it slightly romantic but if we imagine a revised scene where they were "just friends" then it wouldn't need to change much. This is very much the exception rather than the norm for Shallan and Adolin though - the romantic aspect is at least there in almost all their interactions and it is often significant (more so in OB so far, if anything). What I'm trying to do is to draw attention to the difference between a "relationship" in general and what is specifically a "romantic relationship". The intent of the gender-bending thought experiment is a way to highlight the difference between the two. Shallan and Kaladin have interactions but what is specifically romantic about those interactions? If we can change the setting so that a romantic relationship would be off the table by having them be the same gender but it only has a slight impact on their interactions and their relationship then what exactly is specifically romantic about their actual relationship without that change? To be clear, I'm focusing on what has occurred so far in the books. I'm not talking about what might happen in future (though obviously they are not unrelated but the details would depend on a lot of things we don't know). We don't know anything for sure. Here's the passage in question: So what exactly are Kaladin's feelings for Shallan? He doesn't say but it's "close" to "like". How would he describe his feelings? Respect, perhaps? But would that be an honest assessment? Perhaps not. The above sequence is very much the exception though. Even then, Kaladin is shooting down the idea of romance between himself and Shallan. So it still fits inside the idea of them being "just friends". Obviously things could change in future but that hasn't happened yet. In terms of what we have actually seen, there's very little that falls outside the scope of their relationship being more than that of friends.

If he did I'm sure there's a good chance of Taln being healed. Anyway... Since Nightblood was already introduced at the end of WoR, I think it's likely that we will see Nightblood being used sometime soon. I'm sure Nightblood would be very effective against Voidbringers, for example.

With regards to Shai's abilities, there's an interesting comment from Brandon at the end of "The Emperor's Soul": Why does he compare it to Soulcasting? Was that purely the aspect of changing objects? Or does it include the ability to change living things as well? Brandon has talked about there being common underlying principals in the magic of the Cosmere, so if Soulcasting and Soulstamps are related then maybe their range of abilities are also related? So it's quite possible that when Shallan does Lightweaving upon herself to change into Veil or Radiant that she's also doing some Soulcasting at the same time. But since she specifically ties it into her Lightweaving then when the Lightweaving drops so does the Soulcasting.

A little thought experiment for fun: "Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan - friends or lovers?" Let's assume for the sake of this example that the characters in question are all straight. Let's also assume that the society they are in is not gender segregated at all but the characters are in the same situations they were always in apart from this. Take Adolin and Kaladin. They're friends, right? So, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's say they were of opposite genders. What would need to change within the story with the above assumptions? I would say, "not much". The development of their relationship can basically be the same. They can still be friends. Take Shallan and Kaladin. So, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's say they were of the same gender. What would need to change within the story with the above assumptions? I would say, "not much". The development of their relationship can basically be the same. What is their actual relationship outside this thought experiment? I would say that for now it's looking like friends. Take Shallan and Adolin. So, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's say they were of the same gender. What would need to change within the story with the above assumptions? I would say, "a great deal". Nearly every interaction they have would have to change. What is their actual relationship outside this thought experiment? I would say that for now it's looking like lovers. There doesn't seem to be much contention about the first one. It then occurred to me that Shallan and Kaladin's relationship progression is not all that different at a high level from Adolin and Kaladin's. It's only Shallan and Adolin's relationship that depends on their gender - and I don't just mean the start of, as most (though not all) of the interactions that they have would not work if they were of the same gender and straight.

The overall tone of the "intro" is that what's to come is very much about the author. It would not make any sense for the content of the book to be about a third party. In other words, it's an autobiography. The only characters we know of who could reasonably write an autobiography with "Oathbringer" as the title are the Sunmaker and Dalinar. Of course, there could be other references that we don't know of, either for the word itself or the sword. From what we've seen, Dalinar didn't have any particular attachment to the background of his sword. He also gave it away. This book would also have to be a future book and Dalinar should be even further distanced from the sword by then. The tone doesn't feel like Dalinar either and I doubt he's learnt to write in future - after all, one of the first lines is "I needed to write it anyway." In addition, the in-world tWoK book appeared in-world during tWoK and the in-world WoR book appeared in-world during WoR. It's not certain of course but it would make a lot more sense for the in-world OB book to appear in-world during OB. Furthermore, while we did have a brief "future" epigraph with Navani at the start of WoR, that served to massively raise the tension. Having a book probably written years into the future would not do that because you would know that the author survives and is okay enough to write a book. So the only named person who seems like a good fit is the Sunmaker. Otherwise, it's probably a character we've not heard of before or one who we never previously had reason to connect to the name "Oathbringer".

Well, Shallan herself has done things that she regrets as herself. She doesn't need a persona for that! Though perhaps it could be argued that her "coldness of clarity" mode is a sort-of persona...? Since she was like that for both her mother's death and her father's. A sort-of "null" persona. Maybe it'll be turned into a persona called "Clarity" at a later stage so that she can call upon it when necessary. It's probably worth remembering just why she created Radiant - it's too traumatic for her to think about her mother and wield the sword that killed her at the same time. She can do one or the other but not both. I presume you're not suggesting that Shallan finding out that Kaladin killed Helaran is that traumatic for her? If it was then Kaladin will be toast... I doubt Shallan is going to create personas for every problem. Veil and Radiant can both handle multiple problems. While Shallan put aside thinking about Kaladin and Helaran that doesn't mean she cannot think about it without a persona. Just because she doesn't want to think about it right now that doesn't mean she needs a persona to hide from it. It's worth remembering that Shallan is generally herself the vast majority of the time (despite the pain) and the personas are for special occasions.

It's hard to tell from the exchange whether Shallan has told Adolin before that she has brothers. Clearly she hadn't told him specifically about Helaran but he's not surprised about her having brothers in general. I agree that he'll need time to think about it. I've often been in situations where I've suddenly changed my thinking after having a few minutes to reflect upon things alone. I think Shallan could accept Kaladin saying nothing at the time. However, they had about 5 days at Urithiru to talk about things. There's various ways you could argue about the secret but it's certainly unarguable that Shallan is not unrelated or doesn't care and that Kaladin is well aware of that. By Kaladin not telling her it also means that she's blaming the wrong party. It's also the sort of thing that was bound to come out sooner or later, so by not telling Shallan he's acting guilty and also allowing her to take an even worse interpretation of the event. Just to be clear: I can understand Kaladin keeping quiet - doing such a thing is a very human failing. My guess on how Shallan will react when Kaladin returns is that she'll keep quiet about it but get very sarcastic if he ever takes on a holier-than-thou attitude or complains about her keeping secrets. ie she'll give him enough rope to hang himself, as it were. (Of course, it's also possible that Adolin will tell Kaladin that Shallan knows before such a scene could happen...)

I was thinking of this quote from chapter 13 of WoR: "Him" is italics in the original. So, to return to the original question, I have no doubt that Pattern is referring to spren of Odium. If you want to doubt the overall analysis I think you would be better off doubting Pattern's memory or his inference from Shallan's sketch. Sorry, on reflection I was seeing things that weren't there. I've removed the line in question.

This is also how Pattern specifically refers to Odium in WoR. In addition, when Shallan says afterwards "An ancient spren of Odium. Delightful" and Pattern doesn't correct her.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=shallan+father