MoS03

Just because some of the Spren chose people not involved with the InWorldTWoK doesn't mean that the book didn't help with the others. A surprising amount of our Proto-KR have read it, had it read to them, or had it's precepts enforced upon them and saw it's worth. And, it seems Kaladin didn't need to book to help him attract Syl, he's just that perfect of a choice.

Why would it have to be Shallash at that point in time? Or any specific point in time? I'd wager it was happening right then, as we know Shallash does these things regularly (Lift interlude). It has something to do with her memory? Contact with the Cognitive through Pattern? No idea.

A-Pewter, F-Steel. All day. Something too OP would be boring to either be personally, or role play, but just the idea of storing the speed that Pewter gave you, to fill a metalmind with no downsides, and then the grace and coordination you get while tapping your metalmind and burning Pewter. Also, alternating filling and tapping mid-swing to ruin blocks/parries. And, of course, A-Pewter and F-Iron. Imagine weightless jumps and mountains of weight for landing, grappling in general, weightless acrobatics. Could you drop your weight to 1/3, then Pewterdrag and run, then suffer less exhaustion because you did so much less work?

Hmmm. You posted a lot of interesting stuff, that doesn't have a lot of gaps or loopholes. I think you're pretty much on track. This tiny little bit towards the end I need to comment on however. First off, ignorance. We have zero idea what Ishar did. Did he change spren, so they were more Honor than they were before, and now they themselves demand the Oaths? Or, did he change the KR, so they have to say the Oaths? Or, perhaps, he changes some fundamental way they were able to cross over from the CogRealm in order to connect with a proto-Radiant? I'd also argue that no matter what, since the first Oath is always the same, and, in my opinion, what steers the morality of a KR the most, that perhaps the other Oaths didn't need to be spoken before? Perhaps the Kaladin scene in WoR involving this would have happened regardless, but at a slightly different time, not when he said a phrase, and the only trigger required was the action? Also, we have no confirmation aside from Dalinar's confidence that this man was actually Nohadon, and a certain phrase coinciding with one from a book. We also don't know if Nohadon even actually wrote the book! It could have been a confidant, an advisor, a spouse, or even a child. We just lack enough evidence to say for sure he's the author (I do think it likely, however). Second, time. My head-cannon says 1) Some Desolations, some Surgebinders, lots of time, 2) Nohadon born, really bad Desolation with lots of dead people, Surgebinders squabbling, and in which Dalinar has a vision, 3) Ishar (or somebody...? All we have is in-world writings...) does a thing that forces more order on the Surgebinders (or, perhaps, their Spren?), whom now require Oaths, and face punishment for breaking them. So, Ishar couldn't be blamed for the Desolation in TimeChunk 2, due to his actions occuring sometime in TimeChunk 3. Perhaps, this terrible Desolation is the direct **cause** of Ishar's New Rules? Third. storming brilliant idea about InWorldTWoK being why Kholins are getting chosen. I'd imagine that, anyone reading this book and pondering it's contents would naturally attract some kind of low-level intent synergy with any number of Radiant Spren. Imagine if one of the concepts struck a strong chord in a person, and this concept lined up with a piece of Investiture looking to gain some sentience? Boom, Kholins. Didn't Jasnah read it to Gavilar often? @ Maxal, sure seems like Adolin spent a lot of time pondering all the positive changes The Codes brought to his father's camp, trusting Dalinar enough to follow his new ideology, all of which Dalinar got directly from InWorldTWoK... Just sayin'.

So yes, novella's not withstanding, the chronological order is roughly the publication order. We have "roughly the same time", "X years later/earlier" where X is a large portion of years. At no point is anything concrete (obviously, but as more information is released, we can nail things down more), and so exactly when, down to the year, we often don't know. For all we know, the last desolation was put on hold because Odium had somewhere else to be, doing something we don't even know about yet. My ultimate point was, I doubt Endowment is doing much with Cosmere wide consequences, and that due to her Ideal/Intent, isn't perceived as anything but small potatoes. Some of the Nalthians (obviously) may be inclined to participate in other events off Nalthis, but that isn't necessarily at the behest of Endowment. Edit: I'll be reading the last 2 Wax books sometime within the next couple weeks, along with SH. I'm excited!!

Didn't she already figure that out? In the Chasm, didn't Kaladin tell her everything? Or am I crazy?

It's tough to line up story lines into reason for Endowment to do any specific thing for Cosmere reasons. As far as I'm aware, the only WoB we have is that WaxEra takes place roughly the same time as SA, and (barring novellas) publication order has been roughly the same as the story order. It was my understanding that Ruin and Preservation created the Scadrians after Yolen's humans, but not all of the Shards did that, some came upon planets that were already inhabited. So, did Vo return when Endowment arrived, or some point after? If Endowment created these humans, why wait so long before granting rebirths and creating Returned? I'm of the opinion that Endowment came upon an inhabited planet, and began influencing it, Investing into it. Into the planet itself, in the form of the flowers, into each and every person, one Breath, and the Spiritweb changes to allow their offspring to receive a Breath in the future, and began creating Returned, consciously choosing certain people for certain reasons that is their own. Or, she created all of these humans, and due to population growths caused by societal progress has now invested so heavily into this planet, that certain side effects have begun occurring. The Returned, namely. I once read a theory that the more powerful a Cosmere entity is, by correlation their cognitive and spiritual powers increase to some proportion as well? Perhaps after a certain level of Investment, Endowment just wasn't smart enough to fully grasp the millennia of potential implications? Perhaps this Shard can choose who it Returns, but still has some kind of spiritual quota? I understand Endowment's roll on Nalthis to an extent, but the motive for doing so? Is it purely a need to function as it's Intent decrees? Or is there another motive I haven't grasped? It seems like Endowment is destined to splinter themselves via population growth. Perhaps that's why, as far as I'm aware, Odium hasn't interfered with Nalthis yet? No threat, crush later? Note: I am roughly 3 Cosmere works behind, so if any of this has been explained in some way, oops.

I think the greatshells are actually parshendi who have bonded spren they didn't want to.

I just assumed they were horses with gemhearts, and thus were able to get bigger similar to the way chasmfiends can.

About Vin: When she's training in book 2, it's discussed what she can do with pewter. Allomancy is the power of Preservation, and has absolutely nothing to do with a person's physical strength. She gets X amount of strength from pewter, and her particular allomantic power aside, Ham gets the same X amount. However, Ham is much larger, so his X strength increase has to move his Y weight, while Vin only needs to move Y/2 weight. Same bonus, but she has to lift half the weight with it.

If we could avoid the constant necros, that would be amazing.

Wait, I was under the impression that the only Shardless world we've seen has been Shadows for Silence. I can see how it could be just the bird. I think that thought was from the tamed birds not fitting in very well with the wild ones.

I theorize that the grub is a parasite, and actually takes over the bird, and grants the powers. The sDNA of the bird forms how the power is expressed (much like metals). And, that there's a shardpool on Patji where all the birds converge. Discuss!

Haha, makes sense! It just seemed really odd while listening! Anywho, back to listening.

Currently on a 1st audiobook listen to WoR, and this line caught my ear. It's during Kaladin's 1st meeting with Elhokar and Dalinar. It's right after Dalinar claims he'd like to beat the Highprinces like children. It's in reference to Elhokar. Why is Elhokar rubbing at his chest? This seems like such an odd line to just toss in for the scene, for some reason while listening to it, it's incredibly obvious that this line doesn't quite match up with the rest of the scene. Is there something I'm missing? Perhaps I'm just real high.

You've seen a third form of light weaving, in SA. Hoid is originally from a planet called Yolen, which is also the planet Adonalsium originated from. As each Shard (Ruin, Honor, Cultivation, Preservation, Odium, Dominion, Devotion, Endowment) is a piece of Adonalsium, a lot of the original Yolish magics have proliferated via the Shards. That's why we actually see a lot of cross-planet magical similarities. Lifesense from Breath seems to operate similarly to Bronze in Mistborn, Lightweaving on Roshar, from Hoid, and on Sel, Seons on Sel operating similarly to Bonded Spren on Roshar, etc. It seems you have some Cosmere information to inhale (and inhale you will, it's fascinating stuff). I actually envy you getting to learn this all the first time. If you've read the whole Cosmere, these forums have a lot of fantastic information. There are, however, spoilers abound, so be careful. Anyways, as to your theory, it may certainly be possible, but the amount of janky shenanigans that would need to occur just don't seem likely. It's easier to explain with the Yolen tie-in.

In the hallway with the metal filing cabinet, did Wax forget his Feruchemy? A quick weight change would have changed things drastically. I actually yelled at my phone while I read that part like he was a teenage girl tripping while running away in a bad horror film.

Nah, I get the end-pos, neg, etc. it just seems like they're getting some of the benefit of Bronze, without any expenditure. Perhaps the BioChroma offers the capability, and metabolism (similar to Royal Locks?) makes up for it. Perhaps people with more BioChroma need to eat to maintain the abilities? If so, I feel like we would have heard it.

This was only my second reread, so I'm sure there's some things I've still missed. One question I had was, just how exorbitant of a price is attached to a Breath? When Jewels snapped at Vivenna, she claimed one Breath to the God King fed their family for over a year. And each week, between 27 and 29 Breaths are given to the Returned (25 Returned, 2 each week to Susebron, and sometimes 1-2 more). Where does the Pantheon get this much money? While I understand that Hallandren's power was often referred to via the Lifeless army, in order to support just the Breaths for the Returned, they would have had to be massively wealthy. The dyes, and the taxes from them, must be making a ridiculous amount of money for the Pantheon to support it's expenses. I propose that Hallandren's power would actually stem from their economic situation, and that the Lifeless army is more a precaution (a horrendously expensive one) to safeguard their money. Idk, one of the things I jotted down while reading. Another thought. Although it comes up later between Siri and Treledees, how do the Royal Locks not give Vivenna away immediately? Is her control really that good? I'm not doubting it, but any variance, and someone of the First Heightening or higher that just happened to be looking at her would notice. It's hinted that her excellent hair control lead to her talent at Awakening. Perhaps her hair just never changed under scrutiny. Some weird thoughts about Investiture. More Breaths gives more passive abilities. Perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, instinctual awakening, what have you. Now, if a being with more and more of Endowment's investiture sees the world more and more enhanced, how must Endowment view the world? Is there no expenditure of Investiture for the passive abilities? And, we've seen Lightweaving in a few different forms, perhaps Lifesense is Endowment's version of Brass burning? Perhaps Investiture Sensing is a common theme in the Cosmere, much like Lightweaving? Eh, those are my thoughts.

Possibly the 1st known Sliver to procreate, right?

I didn't see many mentions of Emotional Allomancy, but would any Soothing/Rioting even work on people whom are that invested?

How is agreeing to allow the death of someone you've sworn to protect not breaking an oath to protect? I also think that Syl is vastly more Honor than Cultivation, and making promises or committing to actions that contradict previously made promises hurts her cognitive function as well.

I see what you're saying. Perhaps the Kaladin Cognitive is telling the Spiritual Ideal of Kaladin that there's something missing, and to force Investiture there? I interpreted the idea of removing a piece of Spiritweb as an event the rest of the spirit would "know" about, and could then patch with that information.

Hmmm. To me, it seems as if Kaladin's eyes change colors due to physical contact with an invested object that's also touching his soul at the same time. In my eyes, it isn't a change that even involves the Ideal of his eyeballs, but just an effect of touching an Invested object in all three Realms. Obviously, like someone else mentioned, unless he spends a lot more time holding Syl, in which case that will begin to change his Cognitive Ideal, and that now would be his static eye color. Side thought. Would a dark eyes who never heard of a Blade changing eye color have their eye color changed? As to healing the Blade severed arm, his Spirit should still remember that it once had an arm. Either by referring to the "Human Ideal" and recognizing the discrepancy, or the "Kaladin Ideal" says it has two arms, but in reality knows it only has one, and so applies pure Investiture in order to create this "patch." With what Kurk and Brandon have said, it seems pretty clear to me. As to whether Kaladin should continue doing so, it seemed to work just fine with one arm, but what if he did it with every limb? Perhaps by becoming more and more of a Splinter with his Investiture Patches, he'll be less of a suitable KR, he'll essentially be more like a spren? I just don't know. Would a spren that has bonded a person that has no understanding of language be able to speak? Sorry for the weird post, but hopefully this spurs a little discussion!

“It was the story of a child who wandered away from his home at night and was chased by Voidbringers until he hid in a cavern beside a lake. He whittled a piece of wood into a roughly human shape and sent it floating across the lake, fooling the creatures into attacking and eating it instead.” Wok33 Sorry for the bad passage tagging, I found this in the notes I took off iBooks. My last reread was about 6 months ago, and this was from that. We know of a particular Worldhopper is on Roshar from Nalthis. What was the proposed timeline for that? This passage is from the book Shallan finds in the library (forget title, scary children's book or something about voidbringers) while reading the book she saw from Jasnah's research. Man shaped? On Nalthis, Awakening took fewer Breaths if it was closer to the shape of a human. Could this children's story possibly be a holdover from when the aforementioned Worldhopper arrived on Roshar? It even mentions a body of water. Shardpool? Just some thoughts.