Clanky
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I will be joining this game as Ynla Ka. He is an old man who uses a sword as a cane. He claims that he is actually only 30 years old and was a great warrior until an evil Forger used her powers to turn him into a crippled old man. As such he still acts like a young man which leads to him being injured almost constantly. He also apparently has a very poor understanding about how forgery works.
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So that means Neo was in the Caboose. I am thinking that car may have consisted of only passengers then. I will remove my vote from Orlok and move it to Bridge boy for now. You seem to be jumping from player to player with your votes with little reasonings for it. You also were reluctant to vote for Neo and attempted to push the vote to Shallan calling it a poke vote even though others were already voting for her at the time. It seems as though you were just calling it a poke so that you could try and save Neo. EDIT By that car I mean the passenger car with Bort, Peng, Orlok, and Zas as Bort says above. EDIT 2: Also Bridge boys statement saying he was pretty sure Neo had the kill seems like an obvious attempt to remove suspicion from himself as he was the one who got caboosed apparently. EDIT 3: Also could someone give me a run through of how the cabooseing of Bridge boy went? Was he on defending himself a lot? Was it just basically a random choice by the other player?
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This game has been very odd for me to try and find any concrete suspicions. Everyone has done things slightly suspicious but no-one really stands out to me. However I don't really like that Bort continues to go after Alvron when he has the best chance of being a Passenger in my eyes. I could understand you thinking that this was a CC plot if it weren't for the more plausible reason such as the CCs wanting to kill Alv and him being in the Vault car because he expected the CCs to target him since he is the most experienced player left. Now if we assume that is the case, which I do then I would expect one of the carriages from last cycle to have been completely CC free or they would have known that Alv was in the vault car if they had a list of people from every carriage. Gamma was in the Buffet car that cycle, Who was in a carriage with neo during station 5? That would seem to me then that whichever carriage he wasn't in was probably clear of CCs. Could someone give me the lists from the other two carriages from station 5?
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Wow I was't expecting to get that close to being lynched today. However I was expecting to get on again before the end of the cycle but had unexpected guests sow up so I couldn't really spend any time on here. I would like to apologize for that as I should have come on to clear the air a bit. Also I am not sure how this happened but I missed Alvron saying that he was in the Vault car previous to this. I feel like this clears him in my eyes since having the CCs attack someone in the Vault car seemed to be the most likely reason for last cycles lac of CC kill. I am sorry for suspecting you Alvron Also I will put my vote on Orlok for now. You haven't done anything to dissuade my previous suspicious. I will try to do a better analysis of tomorrow when I am a bit more sober. EDIT: Removed vote off of Orlok
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By relatively close I was saying within about 5 or 6 hours before roll-over. I was looking for someone that missed like the last 10 or 12 hours of the cycle.
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I am not voting for you at the moment Alvron. I said you were less suspicious now that Gamma was shown to be a CC. Still it is not faulty reasoning. Since you don't know who exactly will get the Assassin you could use your vote as a way of saying who you want killed should one of your comrades actually get the assassin kill. I have been trying to think of ways the CCs could communicate to the CC without the kill. This is something I came up with and it works whether or not a fellow CC got the assassin kill since you didn't seem to really be using it to actually try to get someone lynched. However I already said that this obviously isn't the case. Also you ask if I have anything new to add and I do. Using knowing the rules as a reason to vote for someone is ridiculous. I like to know the rules of every game I play as both a villager and a eliminator. I think that purposefully misstating rules is more of a CC move then knowing the game rules. EDIT: Also I don't think that we should go down the path of since Dow was a passenger Neo therefore must be a CC. That is faulty logic. This is not a situation where this is the case such as the Witness role in LG10. Now I am not saying Neo isn't a CC but there is nothing saying he must be a CC. I hate saying things like this since it seems like I am defending Neo. However I feel like it needs to be said. Also Alvron, you seemed to view my first post as another accusal of you. That was not what was meant. I was trying to say that I saw you as less suspicious now but by no means cleared.
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Alvron the fact that Gamma was a CC makes you slightly less suspicious to me as it removes my theory about using your vote to direct assassinations. However my other reasoning still stands and knowing that Gamma was a CC your vote on him could've been an attempt to remove suspicion on yourself. Basically what I am saying is that a single vote by someone on a CC who wasn't in danger of being lynched does not mean you actually tried to get him killed. Also about the CC non-kill we have a few options: 1) CC forgot or was unable to perform kill. We should look at people who were not online for most of the round who could be responsible for this. EDIT: I looked through everybody left alive and it seems like I was the one away for longest before the cycle ended. Everyone else was on fairly close to the switch-over or had already been on after the switch-over by the time I checked them. 2) Was kicked off the caboose, one of Zas or peng by looking at the vote count. Can someone from the caboose confirm exactly who? 3)Targeted someone inside the vault. We can find out who if anyone was in the vault by checking the passenger lists of all three cars. 4) Didn't perform the kill deliberately to put suspicion the person who got caboosed. I may have missed some options so tell me if i did. Any thoughts on this? EDITED part of option 1.
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Okay I am still suspicious of Orlok but I will be going in another direction for now. Alvron has not been nearly as helpful as I feel he could be. Votes for Meta and Gamma, two experienced and dangerous players that a CC would love to get rid of as passengers. Also voted for himself for the coins yet refrained from voting for anyone last station. Also worth noticing that both the players he voted for were the targets of an assassination. What to take from that I do not know yet. However I could see it as a way for Alv to tell the CCs who he would like targeted with the assassination since they can only communicate with the killer. Also when voting for Gamma used reasoning of the only reason not to vote being rich already or having comrades to supply him with coin. Now the being rich statement doesn't interest me much but the other option he gave does. It is misleading since coins cannot be donated in this game. That means that your "comrades" can't donate coins if you have none of your own. Now this could just be a mistake or the result of forgetting that rule. However it could also be intentionally misleading and be used as a future reasoning to lynch non-voters which would be could be used by the CCs to cast suspicion on innocents. Also interesting to note that as I said earlier he didn't vote last station. Does this mean he is instead being supplied with coins by his Comrades? Also Ren you have the title of this thread as QF 5 instead of QF 8. EDIT: An important point that I forgot to put into the original post. Don't think that someone agreeing to be role-blocked does anything to prove their innocence! Firstly they would have to be role-blocked five turns consecutively to be cleared this is way to long to wait to clear someone. Secondly the CCs can ruin any attempt to clear them by not using their kill one cycle. This would obviously lead to that player being lynched and if they are a passenger that would remove the ability to assume that any day without a kill means that the CC was the one role-blocked. Thirdly by using the caboose for this clearing strategy removes the discussion around one of the mini-lynches that can be used to promote discussion. Fourth, since the occupants of the car will change al the time the decision to clear said player would have to be unanimously agreed on by all players in order to actually perform the test. Fifth, to stop someone from being cleared all the CCs have to do is kill them. Probably on the last cycle it would take us to clear them so that it wastes a maximum amount of our time and so that we gain nothing from the wasted time. Sorry that got a little long winded. Still my point stands. The caboose should not be used this way and submitting to being role-blocked voluntarily does nothing to ascertain innocence.
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I was only able to get on long enough to see who died last cycle. I didn't have time to go through the thread or anything. Orlok, I wasn't saying you wanted to stop all discussion. You only wanted to stop discussions in the PMs. The PMs can't really help the CCs hide since we will still know if they are posting only in PMs. I personally can't think of any way the PMs help the CCs more than the passengers. My vote stays for now.
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Ok I am back and trying to catch up on everything that has happened while I was gone. Here are some initial read through thoughts. As for Metas plan to bankrupt the CC's I think everyone is viewing it the wrong way. Yes there is a greater chance of bankrupting a passenger than a CC but that shouldn't matter. The villagers outnumber the CCs so we will still have the monetary advantage even if a few of us go bankrupt. However as has been pointed out several times without roles discussion is paramount. Now in a normal game there is only one lynch-like environment which is the actual lynch vote. However if we use the buffet car as a pseudo lynch then we can have three lynch-like environments. This leads to more discussion, more people under pressure and hopefully more slip-ups by the CC especially with-out a google doc to conspire in. I say this is worth losing a few coins. I do have one suspicion from my initial read-through and it is Orlok. Some reasoning: -Votes for phattemer to distance the vote to make it "harder to manipulate". There are no vote manipulation roles in this game so any "manipulation" would have to be by actual pblic votes in the thread. So basically what this is saying is"I want this vote to be a bandwagon". -Secondly said we should cease discussion in the PMs which I think is a terrible idea in every way and not very justifiable for a passenger. Discussion is ALWAYS a good thing. People can often be more open in a PM and it also gives a place to discuss people who aren't in the carriage with you which can be useful. This isn't one of those games where their is danger of the whole game ending up in PMs or one where only a select few are able to PM. Also worth mentioning that just a few posts previous Orlok called out his carriage for being too silent in the PM -Thirdly. When he first voices suspicion about Adamir he wasn't willing to place a vote unless someone else had the same suspicions because his vote alone wouldn't actually get Adamir lynched. This unto itself is odd but where it gets really weird is when on his second time voting for Adamir he removes his vote because he doesn't want to actually threaten him with a lynch. Some very odd behaviour I see from Orlok.
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So I probably didn't make it that clear but I was able to be active at the end of last station because I couldn't get out of town like I planned. Their was an accident on the only highway that goes in the direction I was supposed to be going so I got stuck. My trip is now delayed a day which means that for the rest of this station and the next I won't be very active but I will post when I can. The reasoning behind my questioning of Ren about his placement of people in cars was to hopefully be able to use the unequal amount of people in cars as a way of seeing if anyone payed to stay out of the caboose. I would expect the CC with the kill to try and avoid the caboose in that cycle so they don't get role-blocked. However since with the method being used insures an equal player division that method won't really work as good as I had hoped. I don't really have any other ideas but hopefully someone can come up with something based on what I was hoping to do. Another thought I had was that the occupants of the caboose should be posted at the beginning of every station so that we can not only discuss lynch targets but also who should be role-blocked. I am in the caboose again and here are the occupants this station: Wilson, Jasonpenguin, Bridge boy, Clanky, Lady Eowyn, orlok, Aanwolf and Burnt spag I will be putting my vote on Neo for now in case I don't get back on before the rollover. He posted twice last station but didn't have very much content.
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I'm sorry if this is redundant but I see three options for dividing players and am wondering which one you use: 1) Place all the people who payed to choose a car first then randomly assign to make it even. This is what I think you are saying in the above post. 2) Assign everybody randomly and then move people around and don't worry about keeping it even. 3) Place all players who payed to choose a car and then divide everybody else evenly among the cars not worrying about the inequalities caused by paying players. I suppose 2 and 3 are interchangeable for my purposes but I was wondering if I was correct saying you are using method 1?
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So I didn't think I would make it on here before the end of the cycle but here I am. I am back because I live in a part of the world where one traffic accident blocks off half the country. I don't really have time for much analysis but I will put a vote on Phatt since I want a coin and I don't think there's a vote on him yet. There is no gifting of coins in this game(Everyones too greedy) so that argument doesn't really work. Also GM question, are the number of people in each train car equally divided? If so would this equality be disrupted by people paying to be in different cars?
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Since we have no roles in this game discussion is even more important than ever. That means 5hat inactivity is also more damaging then before. As I say this I will not he able to be very active for the next two days as I am out of town.
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Hael you got that wrong. Claincy was Arasis hostage I am still alive and well. This whole Clanky-Claincy thing can get quite confusing thou. Also how did I end up voting for myself and Araris? EDIT: Ninjad many times over
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The Day 2 comment: I was attempting to discuss at least a bit why the cultists chose their first kill. I am sorry that it was confusing and misleading. Night 3: I can't defend myself as to why Winter would defend me. However it is a strategy as a cultist to defend a villager so that they seem suspicious if you are found out. Which leads me to the Day 5 comment about Luckats innocence. While a cultist will often make defend a villager with shoddy reasoning to cast suspicion on them as above a cultist defending a cultist with little reasoning(which my defence definitely was) is more likely to come back to bite them. Day 4 question to Wilson. At the time there was still a small chance that the cleared people such as Wilson were doing an elaborate plot to trick all the villagers. I still feel like that was a legitimate question. I would never give something like that away to someone that early in the game. Also nobody else thought it was odd that the person who gifted the pendant was killed right after by the cultists? My day 8 comments have already been discussed so I won't do it again here. As for waiting till now to reveal that I have poison it wasn't my plan to do so. I asked for a PM from one of the confirmed earlier in the game so I could tell them about the poison but I never got the PM. Later someone(I forget who) asked if I still wanted to be contacted but I was busy at the time and would have been unable to really participate in a conversation. There had also been discussion of sending a Cultist pirate to Elantris with the poison to somewhat weaken their role. So my plan was if a pirate suspected to be a cultist was found I would reveal that I had the poison and ask for a delay of their lynch so that I could send them to Elantris in the next night. This was not necessary however. About me not being a cultist target because of my role I find that a very poor reason to reveal info. Firstly nobody knew my role so the cultists wouldn't know if it was useful or not. If I had revealed that I was a Debtor I recall some people having the opinion that the cultists had a debtor so that would have made me more of a lynch target. Sorry if I missed anything Ren. To answer all those who may ask why I now have time to post now that I am in danger: Today is my day off work so I do have extra time. Also lots of my inactivity resulted from not having anything to say but when I did I tried to share it (See my Odiv post that may yet be the death of me). So me posting now is a result of excess time and having stuff to say.
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Ok I will send my poison to someone cleared today. Also If we are going to use the fireball on Luckat then I will instead vote for Araris. he has focused on the same suspects throughout the whole game game and hasn't really differed from them. Me, Hael and Jain none of which have been proven to be cultists(yet). An easy way to maintain discussion without accidentally revealing something about your teammates.
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I don't have a full game idea but I thought of an interesting idea for a possible mechanic. I got this idea from the Debtor role in LG12 sort of. It is mostly just the name I stole and I can't think of an alternate name for it. I think it would work best as an add-on to a role instead of a role unto itself: Debtor: You have spent beyond your means and owe a great deal of money to some unscrupulous folk. Your Debt-holder has the ability to call in your debt once in the game and take control of your lynch vote or special role ability. However they do not automatically know your special role ability and must guess in order to take control of it. If they guess incorrectly your debt is cleared without any negative effects. The Debt-holder gets all results and information from any action they force you to perform. Debt-holder: You have made an enormous sum of money by through your money lending business. However not everyone can pay in traditional means. You hold the debt of player name. You have the ability to call in your debt once in the game and take control of your debtors lynch vote or special role ability. However you do not automatically know their special role ability and must guess in order to take control of it. If you guess incorrectly their debt is cleared without any negative effects. You get all results and information from the action you force your debtor to perform. I think this works best as a secondary role for at least the debtor so that it isn't just a one shot vote manipulator. Any thoughts? Has someone already thought of tis? Also if it is any good you feel free to use it.
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Ok in response to Kas saying it was suspicious that my list of potential Odivs only contained cleared people. My whole reasoning was that i thought that if I were the Gyorn I would pick someone cleared which is probably why my list of suspicions for cultists only contained them. Why didn't I go through everyone with that list? As I previously stated my suspicions around cleared people so I didn't want to spend the time on people I didn't really suspect. The other reasonings people used were the votes on maill and not voting for winter. Two things I have already answered several times.
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Luckat Firstly in response to why I suddenly had something to say about the Odiv is because I actually had ideas about it which proved to be wrong anyways. I haven't had that much suspicions about cultists and all the ones I have had have been proven wrong. As for me saying we should ignore Jains list I meant that as in ignore it completely because there is probably no reasoning in it. In response to Wyrms call for Debtors to come forward I will say I am a Debtor. Also since it isn't really as important now I have a vial of poison that I haven't used yet. EDIT: Colour
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I agree that Jains claimed cultist shouldn't be used for any sort of analysis. As for who the Odiv is I suspect that if I were Jain I would've picked an Odic from among the cleared converts. Since the Jindoo warriors have been so effective and the cultists are the more immediate threat I feel like a villager is a safer pick than a potential cultist. That makes Wilson, Kas, Twei the more likely Odivs I believe. Now both kas and Wilson posted towards the Gyorn with reasons not to choose them as the Odiv. Wilsons reason about her being unlikely to survive very long has been proven incorrect but I recon that as joint King and Queen of Arelon the cultists will be trying to kill you to hopefully manage to become one of the heirs. Kas reasonings were more about previous failings that I think are less likely to deter Jain from that choice. I don't believe that Twei said anything about being chosen as Odiv. That makes my suspected Odivs: 1) Kas 2) Twei 3) Wilson 4) everyone else
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He has become paranoid and anyways he decided that he can do better for himself without following the law.
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Doctor McNinja looked around nervously as he boarded the train. He knew everyone could hear all the coins jingling in his pockets. He found the darkest most secluded seat on the train and sat down to wait to get the farthest away from any other lawman as possible. ------ Doctor McNinja, my first character to survive a game will be returning for his second Sanderson Elimination. He promises he won't murder and rob his surviving team members this time(unless he has good reason to).
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Jain Araris, I have explained my reasoning behind my vote on Maill already and I don't feel like I need to keep defending myself from that again. Since that is the only thing you have really said you suspect me for I would've vote for you if Jain hadn't been exposed this cycle.
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Between Karlin and Jain I find Karlin to be more suspicious. Even if you don't have a lot of time in the game using the Seon even minimally would be helpful to both the villagers team and you(If you're a villager).
