hoidhunter

Yeah...I knew I was reaching a bit with that one... What do you think of the sandlings are grown up lichen bit?

I just finished a re-read...but maybe my memory is not as fresh as I thought it was. But...by my recollection; White sand = can be mastered (has lichen on outside, is dry) Black sand = cannot be mastered (has lichen on outside, was recently wet or mastered) Brown sand = cannot be mastered (was recently eaten then excreted by a sandling) Baon comments that it looks just like darkside sand...but it's actually Tonk poop. I would guess that over time, the lichen reproduces to once again re coat the digested sand, making it white again. Just like if you scrub of a section of mold on a really moldy area, the remaining mold around it will eventually spread back into the cleaned area. This has to be the case, otherwise there would be a lot more brown, lichenless, sand lying around the desert. An is it that far fetched to assume that the reason that black sand turn white when left in the sun, it that it simply drys out? For instance, if you poured some water on some sand, turning it black, then kept it out of the sun, but in a dry warm place, it would eventually turn white again? I mean...I know that Kenton talks about how only the sun can turn black sand white again...but he also has lived his entire life in a place where the sun shines all the time, and people have an irrational fear of the dark. It seems that (some) sandlings survive by eating the lichen that grows on the outside of sand. They consume the sand itself, then excrete it with the lichen stripped off. Other sandlings survive by consuming other sandlings. Baon also notes that when looking at black sand through a microscope, it resembles sandling carapace. What if sandlings are just a grown up, or more evolved, version of the same type of organism that grows on the outside of sand?

What I find interesting is that it's discussed that sand mastery is something that is learned. Granted, some people obviously have an inherent natural ability to be a more powerful sand master...but it's sort of implied that anyone could be taught to some degree. We really don't have enough info to even assume that the inherent ability is tied to genetics. The natural ability to be a powerful sand master (once taught) could have to do with something else entirely. For instance, Kenton's father and Drile, two of the most powerful sand masters we see, are both very arrogant people. While I'm not positing this as my actual belief, just a possibility, maybe raw power with sand mastery is tied to an inherently egotistic personality.

I've done some pondering on this very idea...alas...I don't think we have any in world references for WoB to give us a positive answers. But...the fun is in the theorizing right? Since storing strength actually reduces your muscle mass, I would think that you might end up with some weirdly lopsided muscle mass. I.E. You start storing strength, 50% of your muscle mass goes away, you get a wicked pump, your remaining muscle mass strains and tears, you stop storing strength, you original muscle mass returns. The result is that ONLY the muscles that remained while storing actually got a work out, the muscles that returned when you stopped filling your pewtermind have not been worked out. You now have some muscles that have been exercised, and some that have not. To take the idea in a different direction...instead of hitting the gym to lift weights, could a skimmer or full feruchemist just tap some weight while going about their business to put added strain on their muscles, causing an increase in strength and endurance once you recover...or would the relative increase in density that occurs when tapping weight prevent such a thing from being effective? OR...some fitness minded persons use masks that restrict the amount of oxygen they are getting while exercising. It's basically a way of simulating high altitude training. The idea is that your body gets used to having less oxygen as fuel while enduring physical stress. Later, when you are in an oxygen rich environment, it seems much much easier to endure prolonged physical activity without suffering from exhaustion. Could a Gasper use their powers to produce a similar effect? Meaning, you store a small amount of breath (say 5 - 10%) all the time as you go about your day. Over time, you body gets used to operating with less oxygen, later when you really need to run a marathon like distance as fast as you can...just not storing breath makes it much easier to push your endurance...plus, you have a TON of breath stored up to use as needed...and you generally need less of it. The one with lots of question marks around it is speed. Let's say that I, a steelrunner, go for a jog capped off with a sprint every morning as I start my day. I do this while storing 25% of my speed. The result is that my jog is more like a brisk walk, and my sprint is more like a jog. Do I store more speed than I would while sitting still? Does my body suffer more strain despite the fact that I not moving very fast at all? Would I become conditioned to operate more efficiently with the restriction on my speed, so that when I'm not storing speed, I can run much faster than a person who has been following the same fitness routine without storing speed?

Never seen it. But thanks for helping.

So...I already posted this in Misting Jobs...but I had enough fun with the idea that I thought it warranted it's own thread. Basically, Harry Potter has quiddich, Scadrial needs it's own magical sport. I've outlined my idea below...post your own, or make suggestions about mine. Each team is made of 16 players...one of each type of (non-god metal) misting. I'm thinking...very large, expansive field of play with partial, maze-like obstructions separating the two sides in the middle, with a short field of open area at either end, directly in front of each teams' end zone, and six tall, metal, flag poles of varying heights placed at different intervals in the obstacle laden middle ground. Atop each flag pole, is a flag. Each flag has a different point value. (total points 16?) In each end zone is a bolted down iron platform (6x6?). This is the area that someone has to return to with a flag in order to score. On either side of that are two raised pedestals big enough for one person to stand on, the pillars are plated in iron. Imagine neutral flag in halo 4, only with 16 mistings on each team, and 6 flags, and the flags can't be easily reached from the ground...and the only 3 point flag is like 20 ft up. Parts of the field have little jets in the ground the keep large areas obscured in a blanket of mist. There are several smaller iron plates fixed to various places around the arena. Players only get their ordinary fabric uniforms, with minimal padding, no additional metal allowed aside from a pocket for 2 vials (there should be a box of more vials behind the scoring platform on each side), although there are several cantaloupe sized rubber balls scatter throughout the field of play that have 1lb iron weights in the middle. Full contact, although there would have to be some rules regarding conduct so that thugs are not just ripping limbs off of people. Your thug, lurcher and coinshot are your primary movers for getting the flags. Tineye and Seeker work together as on field tactical coordinators. Coppercloud, leecher, nicroburst, slider, pulser, rioter and soother offer a wide range of offensive and defense support roles. Dura-gnat and alum-gnat, as well as your auger better be in great shape, because they're not very useful otherwise. I'm not really sure how to employ your oracle...because I'm not 100% on how that power works...but could possibly be useful if you put your mind to it. ARE YOU READY FOR SOME MISTBALL?!?!?!?

While I understand that Breeze would be ridiculously out of place in the NBA (although, you gotta admit, the guy would be great at trash talking and getting inside the other teams head)...ALL real life professional athletes lack superpowers. Besides, I can definitely use my imagination to conceive of a sport (created around the idea of mistings) where each one could serve a valuable role. I would never look at a scrawny, spectacle wearing British kid and think, "rugby player", but in fictional world where people can apparently fly on broomsticks, he does OK in a sport that revolves around that idea. I'm thinking...very large, expansive field of play with partial, maze-like obstructions separating the two sides in the middle, with a short field of open area at either end, directly in front of each teams end zone, and several tall metal, flag poles of varying heights placed at different intervals in the obstacle laden middle ground. Atop each flag pole, is a flag, each flag has a different point value. (total points 16?) In each end zone is a bolted down iron platform (6x6?). This is the area that someone has to return to with a flag in order to score. Imagine neutral flag in halo 4, only with 16 mistings on each team, and 6 flags, and the flags can't be easily reached from the ground...and the only 3 point flag is like 20 ft up. Parts of the field have little jets in the ground the keep large areas obscured in a blanket of mist. Players only get their ordinary fabric uniforms, with minimal padding, no additional metal allowed aside from a few vials each, although there are several cantaloupe sized rubber balls scatter throughout the field of play that have 1lb iron weights in the middle. Full contact, although there would have to be some rules regarding conduct so that thugs are not just ripping limbs off of people. Your thug, lurcher and coinshot are your primary movers for getting the flags. Tineye and Seeker work together as on field tactical coordinators. Coppercloud, leecher, nicroburst, slider, pulser, rioter and soother offer a wide range of offensive and defense support roles. Dura-gnat and alum-gnat, as well as your auger better be in great shape, because they're not very useful otherwise. I'm not really sure how to employ your oracle...because I'm not 100% on how that power works...but could possibly be useful if you put your mind to it. ARE YOU READY FOR SOME MISTBALL?!?!?!? EDIT: Please don't mistake my grandiose reply as being upset or argumentative...I just started typing...and got a little carried away with the idea...

Well, depending on the nature of the sporting event, the soothers and rioters would try to either manipulate the emotions of the other team in order to get them to make mistakes (make them afraid, eager, impatient, etc) but they could also bolster the emotions of their own team mates, probably to counteract whatever the opposing teams soother/rioter was doing. Augers (what do augers EVER do?) I don't know...be the worst cheer leaders in history...or maybe the weirdest mascot ever. Gnats would just have to be REALLY good at the sport as a normal person, because they are otherwise pretty useless...maybe it could be the gnat's job to intercept the leechers and nicrobursts since they're power doesn't do anything to them, but could still cause the leecher or nicroburst to use up their metal. Connectors are not mistings...

When I was a kid in art class...I always loved mixing paints more than using them...usually ended up brown...

word...

I have to respectfully disagree with our OP. As some of the other posters have pointed out...the 16 intents coexisting in one entity did not necessarily manifest as something that was ultimately neutral. As I began reading the thread...I immediately thought of the quote from "the letter", He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. I feel that the limited ability to take action that we see in Harmony is a result of overspecialization. Sazed can only try to preserve and ruin...whereas...someone (something) with a much broader range of intentions would be able to behave in a more diverse way. If you only have black and white paint...and you have to use both...all you can make are shades of grey. But with a broad spectrum of colors at your disposal...you can create many different shades. We also have to bear in mind that we don't really know what adonalsium was. The shards influence on the holder may be a result of a mortal person's limited ability to handle the power that is working through them...maybe original vessel or consciousness that controlled adonalsium was perfectly suited to handle it.

The Nightwatcher feels that you deserve to be a twinborn...say...a nicrosil compounder... your bane...kissing now makes you nauseous... Have fun! I ask the nightwatcher to move all of my things to my new house in cincinnati for me...I currently live in CA, and moving is going to be hard...

Yeah. I just finished a reread of white sands...I've now got a 2 year old, and have another one on the way. Reading White sands again after becoming a Dad...some things really stood out to me. Kenton's transformation from a youth that views the rules put on him as unjust and constricting and needless, as someone who is responsible for the well being of a number of people who depend on him, and realized the reason and necessity of these rules...really spoke to me. I just keep looking back on my time spent in my mother's home...constantly bucking the rules and complaining about the injustice of having to do what someone else tells you to do. NOW...I've come to develop a new found respect for my mother...and the many sacrifices that she had to make in order to care for my brother and I. I see a strong parallel with Kenton being willing to do ANYTHING to protect the diem...even getting himself killed to ensure their well being. To be 100% honest...I originally posted this topic after a night out with some friends...and was a little tipsy...and a little emotional. But...I do feel that there are strong parallels between Kenton's behavior, and what it takes to be a good parent.

The idea that I find most interesting from this discussion so far...what happens in the CR of roshar when a highstorm passes? Side note...in both CR for Scadrial and Roshar, water = solid ground...implications? Is this universal, or coincidental? How might this influence the investiture / anti-investiture nature of (very rare) water on Taldain? Food for thought...scadrial has spren in it's CR but not physical (yet)...what's the spren situation on Taldain?

I'm mobile so I'm keeping it brief for now. I'll probably expand tomorrow. Kenton's journey of responsibility reflects my own journey into true adulthood. If you are a parent, you can most likely intue my meaning. Please post your thoughts.

Yeah...sorry squigy but you have it backwards...feruchemy is the end neutral art...allomancy is the end positive art...and hemalurgy is the end negative art. However...unlike some others...I'm upvoting you for being brave...instead of downvoting you for posting a long explanation about something that is fairly elementary to most members of this forum. Check out the coppermind to check some things before you post.

Yeah...I just found one of the same quotes on theoryland...the one about the whole solar system i hadn't seen. Pretty positive proof. Upvote for doing the leg work.

Yeah...I know I'm grasping at straws here...I'm just trying to reconcile the whole "the shard on Taldain is autonomy" with, "the sand lord wants people to be in total control." I'm going to state the obvious, and say that there is something a lot bigger going on that I'm just not seeing (There's always another secret)

QUESTION Is Bavadin the only shard on Taldain? BRANDON SANDERSON He is the only shard on the planet. While I myself was beginning to think that certain events in white sands were pointing toward two shards...I found this. And just because it came up in conversation, and I found a relevant quote... NASHAN'ELIN Could Honor and Autonomy be considered opposites, like, Autonomy freeing from Honor's oaths? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, you could definitely think of it that way. Those two are more likely to be opposed than some others.

Sweet, thanks! I had a hunch that it may have been Ais...this does do some interesting things to the story though...

I am inclined to think that the shardpool on Taldain is the mysterious underground point of origin for the Big river that surrounds Kezare. I don't really have any specific evidence to back that up, it's just the impression I immediately got when reading the story. That being said, I can definitely see the arguments for deep sand being a possibility. It is certainly a place of deep reverence for the religious, as well as the place where the giant crazy monsters come from... Side note...do we know for CERTAIN (ie, WoB) that there is only one shard on Taldain?

Please excuse my wild, unfounded speculation...but... While reading through White Sands (again) a though occurred to me, and this thread was the perfect place to address the idea: What if, at the time White Sands takes place, the current vessel on the planet is actually holding two separate shards? Autonomy being one, and a second being something that seems to contradict that intent. As other posters have pointed out, duality is a really important part of this story. As was also pointed out by an earlier poster, the philosophic idea that the sand lord is the only place where contradictory natures can exist is very reminiscent of Harmony (preservation and ruin coexisting in one entity). I realize that there are problems with this theory...but I just thought I would put it out there and let the sharders run with it.

Yeah...I'm with Lurky and Weight here. In other books, main characters who hallucinate, talk to themselves, hear voices, etc, have primarily been people who are being influenced by a shard. Considering that the active shard on the world at this point in time is Autonomy...and Eric has a weird obsession with remaining independent and avoiding responsibility...it can't be a coincidence.

Yeah...I'm just finishing a compete re-read of white sands...mostly trying to earn my profile name...and coming up with squat. If anyone can find Ais' reference to Hoid I'll upvote the next two things you post in this thread.

So...one little thing that has always bugged me a, and maybe I'm just reading into it too much, or misunderstanding what is going on... But in the oathgate schene with Shallan..."He screamed a pleading cry, then stood and cracked something against the wall. A rock? Where had he gotten it?" Why would Shallan be so confused about where Renarin got a rock? Again...maybe I'm misunderstanding what is going on...but does Renarin have the ability to create, or grow rock? So far the only two other orders of radiant we have seen with an overlapping surge is Lightweavers and Elsecallers using the surge of Transformation...which seems to do the same basic thing. However, Renarin has Illumination and progression, and can apparently see the future...which I can only imagine is a different way of using illumination. I'm wondering if his surge of progression works differently as well, instead of growing organic matter, if he can grow inorganic matter? Thoughts?