Stark

Just really noticing how appropriate the Chapter title is for Dalinar. Men of Blood and Sorrow. What a pair of monsters we have there. The Blackthorn and the Kind Doctor. Which is the worse monster? The one who did not care, then learned responsibility and works to atone, or at least be better? Or the one who knows exactly the price of their actions, and does it anyway in secret to make people love him with lies? Dalinar is bringing a viper to his inner circle, thinking it a golden retriever. Not terribly bright, but with sad knowing eyes. Also neat to know that they know something happened, but figured he had a stroke, or something, not sought out a boon. Shows how taboo the Nightwatcher is that they don't even suspect, they just feel sorry for the poor, feeble figurehead. That reveal will be huge.

A lot of those memories come from him at the height of his reputation as the Blackthorn, when he was most bitter about Navani. When he was the most dangerous force Gavilar could unleash. A lot of those memories coming back could fill in some holes that bring the Blackthorn out of retirement. You know, the one who killed children to get swords? And ate off of assassin's blades? That is all dangerous stuff to have come back to you, especially remembering how effective it was, if shortsighted, when he was far less powerful than he is now...

Okay... A lot to unpack this week. Lets start with the preface. I'm almost thinking the preface sounds like Adolin, filtered through the scribe writing it. Kind of like Gavilar's account of the first encounter with the listeners. Speaking of listeners, Mraize referred to them as listeners! Not parshendi. Listeners. Also, Mraize appears to be either a pirate, or is continuing to show off a worldhopper collection be having an aviar on his shoulder. So what gift does this aviar give that benefits him? Heleran. Boo. Reveal that it was Kaladin, not Amaram, and further work to divide the protagonists. Boo-urns. For Kaladin, something is going to go wrong in the barracks. The Lighteyes will get curious or something. Also, our curiously intelligent yellow spren who knows way to much and is being very coy, but also likely has guessed that Kal may be bound to a honorspren. I don't think she buys the crem he is shoveling. So the whole hiding as a slave among them is going to come to a head a lot sooner than expected. That will probably happen in this part. I hope that goes well. But am worried. Mr T. arrived with a Dustbringer. I am so curious about the other orders I almost care nothing for the rest of the chapter, and want more info on this new woman. Mr. T subtly feeling out whether Dalinar is taking the path of the Warlord or the path of the diplomat. damnation. We knew it was coming, but it was so damnation sneaky that if we did not know of his ulterior motives, I would have missed it. It is really neat to watch the interactions with his minders from an outsider's perspective who is not in the know. Ialai and Adolin. That went better than anticipated. I'm proud of Adolin for not being violent, but also for cutting through the double speak to get right to the core. Not Dalinar. But her counter stroke was magnificent, and exactingly correct. One of Dalinar's soldiers trying to do him a favor outside of orders. damnation, this is going to get fun. Additional thoughts after reading the comments that appeared while I typed this: A sense of dread developed when the Stormfather confirmed he is not the healer. Which mean both the Boon and curse are still functional, making them conditionals? That is terrifying. What is the condition. What is the new thing to disappear. And Urithiru is haunted. That's nice. Leave a sleeping agent of evil. Not an unmade, but one of the creations to screw with the next rounds heros while they learn. That seems hateful enough to make sense. And Mraize wants neither side to come out on top, he wants balance for nefarious purposes! That is scary.

Dustbringer smiling creepy smiles! BRING THE DUST!

I wonder if it creates interesting strata in the rocks when they Soulcast it to stone...

I'm thinking tomorrow we get a follow up with Dalinar, post memory rush, and a Shallan follow up chapter first in line. For the third chapter, I think we are going to see a break from Kaladin until that Highstorm shows up. So the third chapter will go either to Dalinar or Shallan, giving us two of one of them in sequence. I think tomorrow we get Shallan follow up, Dalinar memory results, Dalinar politics/highstorm communications with Stormfather. Having two Shallan chapters is possible, but I don't think as likely. But in that case it would go Shallan-Dalinar-Shallan, but the second Shallan chapter would likely involve Dalinar, Navani and Renarin as well as Adolin and Shallan, as they discuss surrendering Adolin's plate, Shallan and Adolin's investigation and Dalinar's memories.

For me, I don't really buy that Evi is Vivenna, mostly because I would find it extremely disappointing that she was gone. But also, Vivena's control of her hair colour was not fantastic the last we saw her, and she likely would have had a significant wealth of breath. So Evi seems like a poor fit. On of the things I have learnt about people going under assumed names is that they will take names from their comfort zone, from their country, fitting a pattern, and mostly because their ethnicity will not necessarily match a name to drastically different from their home. Given that Brandon used a double consonant sound at the beginning of most non-returned names in Warbreaker (Vivenna, T'telir, Dedelin, Llarimar, D'denir) for both Hallandren and Idris, I will personally be on the lookout for some foreigner with an unplaceable accent, weird colour based idioms, a name starting with a double consonant rather than a palindromic structure, inconsistent hair, odd colours, and an inexplicable ability to annoy Zahel more than most. Or, you know, any combination of two or three of those points. But especially seeing as we have seen Vasher still dressing in scruffy clothes, belted with a simple, likely awakened, rope, still using Nalthian phrasing, I see Vivena having similar patterns. Yes, she was in a state of self-image transition when last we saw her, but she also has far less experience with World-hopping than Vasher, and she was never good at blending in. So I am looking for someone with a Nalthian name, Breath, Royal Locks, off colour speech patterns and accent, and familiarity with our other Nalthian. Evi fits none of those, though we have not seen her interact with Zahel. In any case, her name feels more Selish to me than Nalthian or Rosharan. Which kind of fits that the Iriali, which could conceivably be the palindromic form of the Ire, are theroized to be Worldhoppers travelling the Cosmere, generation to generation, trying to be Adonalsium experiencing itself...

If Lift was given a full, unkeyed Bendalloy metalmind (stores calories), would she be able to tap it for awesomeness?

Just in case you were on the fence, trying to figure out if Mraize was really a bad guy, or just simply misunderstood. I mean, I get the confusion, he did try to kill Amaram, right? And then you see him with Ialai, and remember how psychopathic he is. Definitely a villain. But far more interesting question becomes: Is Ialai a Ghostblood? If so, where does she fall in the hierarchy? If not, is she aware that Mraize is? If she is, does she know about Mraize's new protege, Veil, and the showy display at the alehouse? The next Shallan chapter better happen next week, because it will be intense. And, you know, cause these boards to explode. Again.

No really big comments this week. Some worldbuilding work with Sebarial. The Flashback chapter as anticipated. It is interesting to note that Evi and Toh apparently did steal the plate from their homeland, and Dalinar essentially purchased said stolen goods as a dowry. So.. he is in possession of stolen goods. That will be interesting. I'm glad Shallan did have to deal with her hangover. I think it is good learning experience for Veil. Plus consequences and adulthood, ect, ect. Also, near miss on discovering Adolin killed Sadeas. I think he would have told her if she pressed. But now she wants to have a mystery to unravel with him. Its not as if they weren't spoiled for things to keep them occupied, or that this is super relevant to everything. Hi Mraize. Umm.. Glad that the listeners are starting to feel their Rhythms. And they don't like the yellow Spren either. I think this will culminate in Kaladin needing to tell some Alethi to back off and go away, revealing his radiant nature. This continues to be my favorite thread. I shudder at eating from the knife. Granted, the wine likely sterilized it. But still. That was just in someone. Dalinar to servants "Who do I have to kill to get proper service in here? And a decent knife? If you think I'm kidding, just ask the assassin at the last holding. I will literally stab you to death with your own knife, and then use it to feed myself if no one gets me STORMING USEFUL UTENSILS." More Gender dynamics! The Easterners are unfamiliar with safepouches, and Navani is snide! Palona barely conceals hers for massage, open air with guests too! Shallan explains that not everything should be blamed on periods, common immature/misogynist male mistake encountered and defeated. No substance this week, really. More build up chapters. That's about everything. Until I read the other comments on this thread and you all point out something I missed that I want to have an opinion on. Happy Tuesday everyone!

It doesn't necessarily have to be Eshonai's own ambition that caused her trouble. Yes she was ambitious in her desire to explore and map the world. But the ambition that most recently caused her issue was Venli's, with Stormform. The line says that the traitor was broken by ambition, not broken by her own ambition. One could even argue that Gavilar's ambitious goal of bringing the Listener Gods back is what initially broke her entire people and locked them into a conflict they could not win. There are tons of ways, given the phrasing provided, that ambition could have broken the traitor.

Ordered and done. Whew. Now just for the interminable waiting. Do I give in and buy the kindle version while I wait for delivery to Canada?

So far Kaladin's Oaths have involved protection. I will portect those that cannot protect themselves (Which he will likely do with the newly freed listeners). I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right. So I think his next oath will be along the lines of "I will teach others how to protect themselves in my absence" I also understand that we will here an oath from another Windrunner this book. I am curious to see how it will differ from Kaladin's, and how it will echo his.

Very true. But at the same time, Stormfather did not actually see what Dalinar saw. Dalinar went beyond the programmed limits of the holodeck and saw something new, that Stormfather could not. Dalinar had to describe the champion, the red eyes, the golden light and the nine shadows. The fact of the matter is that there are nine unmade. And the possibility that all nine would bind the champion into some super dark radiant, with access to all the surges, does exist. But that does not mean that is what Dalinar saw and described to the Stormfather. That was just the Stormfather extrapolating the second hand data Dalinar provided. Most likely, accurately, but with room for error. Except the idea that the champion would bind all nine unmade and become a Fullborn-esque Radiant. That was me extrapolating to a worst case scenario. The possibility does still exist that Shallan's persona's could become the shadows, especially seeing as I don't think Shallan has given an official name for these personalities. And @Toaster Retribution's idea that the persona's could attract the unmade to Shallan, to bind her and kill or incapacitate Pattern through subtle villainy, is pretty cool too. It melds both concepts into a conceivable plot path. To me at least.

I think I'll wait til October 17th, one month before release. Then I'll order somewhere else. I can't attend the signing, I'm up in Montreal. Weller's is my only currently affordable option for a signed book. Thanks for the twitter tip @Pagerunner

Hi guys, Weller books is usually my only way to get access to signed copies of Brandon's books, and even though the shipping tends to be extremely prohibitive, it is usually worth it. But I saw that there was some issue with their site mentioned on Brandon's last blog. Does anyone have any news? Otherwise, we are getting to the point where I may just have to order the book somewhere else. Which I don't want to do, because I really do want to have the chance to own a numbered copy and ask a question.

And the last time we saw someone who had problems with Shadows of their Self, Paalm went nuts. Just saying. I realize this may be unlikely, she only has two personas/shadows currently. As long as Oathbringer may be, getting up to a full complement of nine would be difficult by books end, unless each additional shadow is easier to create. And they do unsettle Pattern.

I was discussing my pet theory that Shallan would become the champion with a friend offline, and he made an interesting point. On top of the constant talk of who and what she doesn't hate, and Odium's history of influencing her family, Shallan creates personas to hide behind because her basic self can't handle it. She hates herself, so she creates these shadows of different versions of her to hide behind. Currently, she only has two of these shadows. But as her needs grow, how many people would be shocked to find her creating nine such shadows? Pattern has already said that something is wrong with them... Also of note, both of her existing shadows are based on people who influenced her, who she is convinced are dead. Tyn and Jasnah. A bit macabre....

I don't know. "I hate everything and everyone. Therefore I must destroy it all." Seems a little one-note, a little too straightforward and lacking nuance to be the villain of an entire universe. Yes, he does have phenomenal cosmic power, but much like Jafar, he managed to get trapped in a lamp. Only his lamp is a planet, and he has agency beyond some minion making wishes. The fact that he only possesses 1/16th the sum total of the deific being that preceded him would seem to indicate that the Cosmere is capable of generating a cosmic villain level event on an order of magnitude much greater than 1/16th. Especially seeing as we already have a positive force containing 1/8th revealed before we ever heard the title Odium, or the name Rayse, even if that positive force has a great deal of trouble taking action. I just don't buy that Odium is going to be the main villain of the Cosmere. It would be like getting the mastermind villain pulling all the strings revealed early in a tv show, but having to wade through 10 seasons of minions before the heroes can do anything about it, and then finding out he will only be truly defeated in a spin-off. Rayse has just been revealed and made directly relevant far too early in this 20-30 years worth of upcoming book releases to be the Ultimate Force of Destruction and Evil in the Whole Cosmere. But that's just my opinion, and I could well be wrong.

You are right, it is a cheap level up, but that might be acceptable only because she had progressed further as a child before regressing. So easier to get back to a previous level of radiance than a cold start from zero? But it may also be a false positive because she knew about, and thought about using the patternblade. But, she did not summon it that I can think of before re-affirming her 'I am a murderer' truth, so that can go either way. @Mistbornwithakitty I'm glad I didn't openly spoil anything for you. The Thrill contains the first five or six flashback chapters, and as you've pointed out, shows a very, very different Dalinar than we know in the present. Which means on some Tuesdays, some of us get chapters we've already read elsewhere, albeit with some small changes. Most of my blurb was conjecture, but I am hoping that the flashback sequence for Dalinar will culminate with his trip to the Nightmother, or his perspective from the assassination night.

By my count, on Radiant progression, Shallan is at level four. Universal ideals, I am terrified, I am a murderer, I killed my mother are her four truths so far. Which means she has one truth left to admit to herself, right? If that is the case, and we know that she is more advanced than Kaladin who is on his third oath, so it tracks - I think I have an idea for what her final truth will be. Some shorter, more elegant version of: "All of the personalities I create are not lies, they are not separate from me. Shallan, Veil, Radiant. They are all me, and I am all of them." Pattern does seem to be subtly pushing her towards that, as he did with the truth about the sword. As Syl, and far less subtly, Wyndle, have done with their Radiants. She will have to acknowledge that she is all of them, and can be and do what they can all do. That's my thought anyhow. Different topic! @Mistbornwithakitty - The Name of SHSHSHSHSHSH. I don't know if you read the collection of Dalinar flashbacks titled The Thrill that were released as a short story in that collection last year? If not, spoilers below.

I agree completely. Seeing how close things get to the fire, or sometimes how deep into the fire, before they can be pulled back from the brink is part of the appeal. Sometimes watching things slip over the edge mid series helps build to a better end. Very rarely do I read something with the expectation that everything will go wrong, and things end worse than they began by series end. And I feel Brandon is more the author to have things end well overall, if dramatically changed. However, I don't think that Odium is the Cosmere's ultimate bad guy. Roshar's maybe. And he definitely is a Cosmere wide menace. But he was named, and brought to be the face of the Rosharan conflict far too soon to be the ultimate villain. It would begin to feel a bit tired if he were the villain for everything after this point. So I think Odium, such as he is, will cease to be a villain after Stormlight is concluded. We have the hints being dropped of the master manipulator Bavadin, Trell (maybe also Bavadin) and the possibility of something worse still beyond Odium in later books. But Odium was unmasked far too early in the Cosmere as a whole to be the Cosmere's Dark one, and he is far too straightforwardly destructive for me to see him as the ultimate villain. We do know that the shard, Odium, survives this conflict, but that it may change hands. But I also have trouble seeing him as the Thanos, Darkseid, Galactos, Necros, or any other universe level villain you care to compare him to for the Cosmere. Also, woohoo! Post number 300!

In another thread I made the mistake of assuming someone witnessed the second murder. It seems they are identical within 24 hours, leading people to think it is a copy cat. My mistake. However, I do not believe the murderer is an Unmade, listener or human variant. Something or someone that can go anywhere unseen, undetected, while having enough physical form to kill violently, in an identical manner. I feel the copy cat is an Aimian. We know part of their agenda is to keep people away from their island. And that an Oathgate is on their island. It would track that they would have an agent in Urithiru to prevent their gate from being re-opened. How copy cat killings would accomplish this is unknown to me, but we also do not know enough about their motives yet. We saw in Edgedancer that a single Aimian was enough to take down two proto-radiants who had spoken at least their first two ideals. They are capable of violence, and are skilled combatants, who have less to fear in a fight to the death than humans due to their hive nature. I really think an Aimian is a good fit for the killer. I just don't know why. Thoughts?

You're not wrong, if Kaladin does it wrong. But Kaladin is not a hypocritical idiot like Nynaeve often was. Also, his start - surrendering to them, then teaching them fire, is far more nurturing and less aggressive than just yelling at them to stand up for themselves. He is helping, rather than commanding. Directing while submitting rather than seizing and forcing. Man, except for being a dude, Kaladin sounds like he would be far better at channeling Saidar than Nynaeve ever was at the beginning. Maybe because Syl is female, she would give him an in? Male/Female radiant-spren pairings getting auto channeling circle pairs?

@Dreamstorm - These are more my predictions for the end of book 5. Ending two is what honor and the Stormfather were pushing Dalinar towards. As it currently stands, with how complacent the world has become since the 'last' desolation, and how much the rest of the countries doubt the trustworthiness of the Blackthorn... They have a bigger uphill battle that Kelsier's crew did. At least the skaa knew that they were in danger, knew they had a common enemy they could accept or struggle against. Roshar is so full of different secret societies with different agendas, numerous countries in place of an empire, communication breakdowns, lack of trust, and centuries of cultural divide to contend with. Unifying them to face a common enemy, especially a common enemy who is appearing to negotiate rationally with some leaders, while the guy who says their are evil has a reputation for being a berserker warlord from a family with a penchant for world dominance and heretic thought? The struggle they face here is orders of magnitude more difficult that toppling a single authority figure in an empire. And on top of that, the only monarch who appears to be siding with the protagonists is Mr T., who we all know is not necessarily a good ally to have for many reasobs. So yeah, I am not seeing many options for a positive outcome by book five, where the best case scenario is still pretty awful. Heck, previous desolations had a 90% mortality rate, and sent civilization back to the stone ages. And those were victories. So yeah... Is a happy ending possible by book ten? Probably. But I don't see it yet. But I'm also not really looking past book five. But, you are not wrong for calling me out as a pessimist. Struggle and adversity make opportunities for better stories to emerge, and that does require things to get worse before they get better. So I am expecting things to get worse.