Stark

I just saw that as well. Independently, both are pretty neat. Taken together, it becomes 1+1

So, I was wrong. However, in terms of this: This feels extremely deliberate:

I mean, I do not have a super hard time coming to terms with the idea that 16 people who decided to kill god, take his powers for their own and rule in his place are entirely altruistic. Maybe their reasons were justified. Maybe they had good intentions. But immediately after, many of them broke their oaths of non-interference to each other and ignored the rules they put in place. They have squabbled and killed each other. Finding out that every one of the original 16 was at best a self interested neutral party, at worst an egotistical maniac who thought they could do better than god? That would not surprise me. In the letters between Hoid and Frost, Rayse was listed as the worst of the 16. No one mentioned whether the best of them was actually any good. And so far, what we have seen of the others is not super encouraging. Heck, Cultivation and Honor abandoned the singers in favor of humans, for a reason we don't know yet. Still, don't trust Hoid. And it would not surprise me if he decided to be the Scar to Dalinar's Mufasa at the end of this book. Tears in his eyes or no.

I think they are off waiting for their own book before taking the stage. Their display of self mastery in not stealing the show from the other orders is commendable.

We have been theorizing how this book will end, and if Sanderson will stick the landing. A lot of us have theorized that the good guys will not win. Not necessarily lose, but not win. Pulling a victory against a godling, even a nascent one dealing with it's predecessors bad ideas, in only ten days is a tall order. It also sets up the next five books, and potentially some cosmere wide conflicts in later eras, once the planets start to mingle. So how do the heroes fail to secure a win? Or achieve a tie? Quick interlude: I hate spoilers. Especially implied spoilers before a book has even been released. I think the key to this is the contract Hoid created to bind Odium. He wrote that contract quickly, with the input of dragon friends and Jasnah, but it was still Hoid who wrote it. And Hoid who could have slipped a detail or two in that Jasnah might have missed, and Dalinar definitely did, as I don't recall Dalinar having time to read the contract. The problem here is that Hoid is not playing for the same stakes as the Rosharans, and his objective may be parallel to theirs, but it is not the same. Hoid even stipulated that the win condition maintains Odium as a Rosharan problem, rather than a Cosmere problem. From Words of Radiance I don't think Hoid is the villain, but I think he is playing chess while the Rosharan's fight for their lives. He is about to sacrifice a rook (Tower -> Kholin analog) to trap a king. I think they Rosharans are aware that they should not trust Hoid, but have to because of his knowledge, and as a result they are trusting him too much. I think Hoid set this up to sacrifice them. And that will be the twist that has us screaming. Because saving Roshar does not accomplish Hoid's goal of keeping Odium contained.

Something, something, Discretion is the greater part of Valor? Feels like it needed saying.

Doesn't this mean that we are all Dwight? We are all of us Dwight. We are Dwight.

Its again. Stormlight is about to release. There will be no more sample chapters on Mondays. What am I to do with those Mondays? What will I look forward to? How did I handle this three years ago?

Isn't Hoid's name, as known to the Heralds, Midius?

Punctuation issue. Or too fast to reply. Not all of the villains in the series have 'M' names. Those were examples of villains who did. Definitely categorize those three as villains.

For sure. Its just fun. You see it in Wheel of time as well: Moridin, Moghedien, Mazrim Taim. Not all villains, but a larger percentage.

Just musing on a trend I have noticed. Not omnipresent, as Torol Sadeas is an obvious exception, but there does seem to be a fair number of villains/antagonists whose names start with the letter 'M'. Meridas Amaram Mraize Moash Even Ba-Ado-Mishram is often shortened to simply Mishram. Malata and Mrall get (dis)honorable mentions. Again, its not omnipresent, nor exclusive. But Amaram and Moash are major villains for Kaladin through the entire series. Amaram for the first half, Moash for the second half. Mraize for Shallan. Mishram is integral now, seemingly, and is also key to Shallan's arc. So what leads people with 'M' names to villainy?

We'll have to agree to disagree. Intense hatred of something does not necessarily lead to planning, or intent to take action on that hatred. Your definition refers to the feeling of odium, but does not speak to action. That said, there are plenty of interesting suggestions here for Cultivation+Odium. I am not set on Vengeance being the actual result. Vengeance can be an odious act. But Malignance also works really well. Points also for Batman. Best example I could give for real life cultivated hatred would be Feud. As in the generational conflict between two families that has gone on so long that they don't remember the inciting event, just that the other party must be destroyed. Vendetta would describe the action taken from the intent of Vengeance, but not describe the intent itself. (I do like the idea of the shard of Vengeance having a Vendetta, or V for Vendetta if you will) Someone asked the same question 7 years ago on an ESL site, and it lines up nicely with our discussion. Wonder if the questioner was a Shard member: Link

One could argue that Taravangian swore to serve Odium, not Rayse. And in taking up the shard of Odium, he now serves it better, and more ably than his predecessor. Oath intact.

I mean, we might get nine batches of interludes, nine being the number of Odium, which would be subtle structural change to indicate Odium wins. Sorry, Odium Reigns.

I hope you are right if only so that we can see Rock again.

I will say that I don't think Shallan and Renarin are in the Spiritual Realm. They were outside the perpendicularity when it was collapsed and it exploded. I think they are still in the CR, just in a lot of pain, and possibly no longer in possession of Mraize and Iyatil. Worst case, they've been inversed and captured by Mraize and Iyatil. I think it's only Dalinar and Navani in the Spiritual Realm. But I like your theory. Navani can almost literally be considered the Tower now. Dalinar is the Crown. I like this a lot. I hope for poor Kaladin's sake that you are wrong, but yeah, the Tower, Crown and Spear are now absent. Someone might have to step up.

Definitely well done!

As of today? Yes.

For me, I'm just worried how the Sibling and Stormfather will react to their Bondsmiths being lost in the Spiritual realm...

I lean more to He Who Quiets. It makes his punishment more cruel, having his Rhythms stripped away, leaving him quieted. That level of cruelty fits Rayse.

I just finished re-reading the series. When El appeared, it was indicated that he (they?) had been stripped of their title and rhythms. The Defeated One tried to commiserate with El over how El's title had been given to another. Given the Defeated One's current grievances, the only person he would complain about having a new title would be everyone's favorite traitor, He Who Quiets. I am pretty certain that El's original title was He Who Quiets.

One thing I have noted with Ash, she will refer to herself as sane. She thinks Ishar is the most Sane, other than her. Ishar also thought he was sane. Nale though Ishar was keeping him sane. They all seem to have a hard time gauging their madness levels.

Could it be in part that Ash recognizes that people's perception of her has a measurable impact on her? Which has led to her madness forcing her to destroy any iconagraphy of herself? Does she think that is she destroys enough of people's representations of her, that her madness will retreat allowing her a measure of sanity?

Yeah, @robardin's spoiler text was what I was going to respond. It makes sense in terms of mechanics, but it makes me sad that the likelihood of a secret hidden stash of thousands of sets of blade and plate hidden somewhere in the world is pretty much 0. I really liked my theory, thank you to @Treamayne for linking it here. But I think its dead.