little wilson

Oh, people can totally not be interested in you and ask friends if you're interested in them. It's what one of my guy friends did in both junior high and high school (I apparently didn't learn my lesson in 8th grade so he taught it to me again in 12th grade. Good times).

I had the end of Bands of Mourning spoiled for me months before it came out. I spent 3 months wondering about the spoiler, and by the time Bands came out, I'd learned to deal with the curiosity that it wasn't a driving factor for me by then. Despite going to the release party and buying Bands there, it took me over a month to finish it. And when I did, I didn't jump straight into Secret History. Well, I did. I started it the next day, but I'd stayed up so late the night before that I fell asleep reading SH, and I just didn't really have that driving motivation to complete it. I was in a funk by then and was having a really hard time bringing myself to read anything. The only reason I completed Bands when I did was because a challenge was issued for me to beat another person to the end and that other person was 100 pages ahead of me (I lost, but I only lost by 45 minutes, so I didn't do too shabby). I didn't finish SH until September/October. That's how long it took me to read it. And once again, it was because of other people. For a lot of people--even those who don't complain about spoilers--knowing major spoilers ruins the experience for them. There are the anomalies that prefer to know spoilers, but generally, most people who are reading/watching something for the first time probably don't want spoilers. If someone is reading/watching/interested in something, that doesn't give you permission to shout out major plot spoilers if you're familiar with what they're consuming. That permission comes when they ask you. Honestly, if I was that girl, I wouldn't want to get to know the person who spoiled a book for me just because they'd read it before I had. That person clearly values their own personal gratification above others, and that tells me that they're not someone I want to befriend. Who knows what else they'd spoil?

And that is definitively worded. So yeah. I'm back to calling bull for that item.

Well, Aonar, I'm actually not entirely certain. The rules don't actually say that the item to slay the House can't be found until the first Traitor is dead. It says the method of slaying the house can't be found until the first Traitor is dead. And DA is saying that he couldn't decipher what he's got until the first Traitor died. So it's possible that he's telling the truth and that his item can kill the House. It's just that the way to use it in a way that kills the House couldn't be found until after the first Traitor died, which is technically within the wording of the rules. I'm still skeptical, but I will admit that it's possible this is true.

For some reason, I rather doubt that Wyrm would make such a critical mistake like that. Miscount a lynch vote, sure. Forget to roll on what exact item a person finds in the night, sure. But that's a pretty important part of the rules. I highly doubt Wyrm messed that up. If you really do have an item that you think can kill the house, I would suggest confirming that with Wyrm, because right now, it sounds more like a desperate attempt to make yourself important so people don't try to kill you after all you did to try to throw the lynch off Hael during the day.

The first Traitor just died and you're saying that you've already found a way of killing the House when, per the rules, that is impossible? I call lie.

I'm fairly certain I lost that card when I was freaking out about the possibility of having to kill myself. Just saying.

You weren't the only one, though I wasn't worried about trusting myself. Hael's last post had me terrified I was being duped and would have to kill myself tonight. I spent the 50 minutes from rollover to writeup having a panic attack and pestering Wyrm. Which, now that I think about it, probably only slowed him down on writing and made it worse for me. Hm. Oops.

That's...not what I said. If Hael is innocent, someone is trying to deceive me. The only people who knew I was scanning Hael were you, Aonar, and Seonid. El knew I had Tin, but not that I was using it tonight, but she knew I suspected Hael. Orlok also knew I suspected Hael, but he did not know I had Tin. If Hael is innocent, I'd look at Aonar, Seonid and Doc (well, I won't, because I'll be killing myself, but I'd suggest everyone else to). I don't care to trawl through the game, but I wasn't talking about a rioting effect anyway. I was talking about a soothing-type effect. I noticed a vote on JUQ (I think it was) removed a couple cycles ago. Maybe it was mistake, maybe it wasn't. I don't know and I didn't care to check, because I generally take vote counts as truth. Regardless, as Aonar already said, there is vote manipulation in the game. Probably best to not let the vote get in a spot where it can do some damage.

I got the mixed metal vial last night when El passed it to me. Wonko passed it to her the night before last. And I'm not appealing to sympathy or anything like that. I'm confident enough in Hael's guilt that if he is not evil, I'm clearly hurting the village more than helping it, so my death is necessary if the village wants to win. If Hael is good, all I'm doing is leading the village astray. So I kill myself so you don't have to take the time to lynch me. If I'm evil, I won't kill myself, obviously, and then you lynch me during the day. Done. When I said I was throwing all my eggs in one basket, I meant it. There's vote manipulation that's been used in previous lynches. We cannot afford to let the lynch get close. Right now, Hael is trying to persuade the villagers to lynch me. He's trying to get the vote close enough so his team can manipulate it and either cause a tie or kill me. I'm trying to stop that from happening by saying that if he's good, you don't have to worry about killing me because I will do it myself.

I have a vial of mixed metals right now. If I'm wrong about Hael, I'll use the steel tonight to kill myself. How's that for putting all my eggs in one basket?

Khaos glanced at Billy. "Sheon's right. The evidence against Yiferian was circumstantial. There's actual evidence against Professor Hae." While a number of people had known she'd thought Hae was a Traitor, only three had known she was planning on following him last night. Sheon, Aon, and the person who had given her the Tin. She knew nothing of Feruchemical bracers and nothing that would confuse her as to what she had seen. In fact, she knew for a fact that it was Hae that she had seen (the result of action said that I saw Haelbarde kill someone, as opposed to just seeing a killing action with no mention of who did it). Even if there was some way for a person to make her think she saw something that didn't happen, the only way it would work is if the person had also followed Hae. Which would mean that they'd either have to have known that she was following him burning Tin or that they'd just guessed that she would. The odds of either of those being the case was slim, because those who knew she was following him knew that he was her top suspect of being a Traitor. They'd have no reason to frame him because even if she hadn't seen him kill someone, she still would've thought he was a Traitor. And as Hae had already mentioned, who would've guessed that she'd follow him of all the possibilities? No, it was far more likely that he was indeed a Traitor and he had indeed killed Quintus. Khaos had accused Hae, and while he'd been around (Hael was on Discord for a good few hours before he'd responded, and I'm near-certain I'd seen him on the site within 2 hours of my post accusing him), he hadn't said anything for hours. Six, to be exact. That's a long time to wait, if you're innocent. The day before, when Khaos had accused Yiferian, Yiferian had also been around, and she had immediately replied, though her response hadn't assuaged Khaos' suspicion of her. In Hae's case, it looked more like he was trying to compose a good cover story to explain away his action. But if he was truly framed, one would think he'd know that Khaos herself wasn't to blame for the framing, but that she herself had been deceived in it. That the framing was meant to make her think he was a Traitor. One would think he would state what his action last night had really been, if not killing Quintus (and while he said he found a Medical Fabrial, he also said he found a bracer, and he couldn't have found both last night. I don't think he found either last night because I don't think he was exploring. I think he was killing Quintus and is throwing out the Medical Fabrial and bracer as a way to say "Oh hey look at these useful things I found; I can't have killed Quintus because look how helpful I could be!"). But he hadn't. He'd implied that she, Khaos, was framing him and knew that he was innocent. --- While I could see Dani not mentioning certain things right off the bat--like that someone had told her that I was the Mistborn before she contacted me--Hael's been around for longer and he's seen many, many different gambits. He's seen many villagers deceived, numerous mislynches, and plenty of accusations. He would know that there are a few possible reasons that I could've been claiming that result. One is that he had really killed Jon. The second is that someone was intentionally confusing me to make me think that he killed someone (which would mean that I am not a Traitor, since they're trying to deceive me/the person making the accusation). The third is that I am complicit in the deception and am framing him. This last one is the least likely for me to do, and villager!Hael knows this. Even when I'm evil, I'm as honest as I can be. When I'm evil, I don't do insane gambits like....oh, I don't know...claiming that someone killed someone they didn't kill while knowing that they're innocent, in an attempt to get them lynched, knowing that when they're shown to be innocent, I will look guilty, right after I've been recently attacked and gotten another villager lynched for that attack. No, Villager!Hael would guess that it was second option, since he would know that he didn't actually kill Jon, and he would throw out the idea of obfuscating/shielding actions/items like (potentially) Feruchemy (since we don't actually know what it does right now--I didn't even know Feruchemical items were in the game until Jon's death) right off the bat, rather than trying to cast suspicion on me, which the second option doesn't work with. Eliminator!Hael wants me dead, though. Obviously. He had me attacked two nights ago, and I already have a pretty good idea of exactly how he guessed that I was the Mistborn (I don't think he knew for certain, but I think he knew there was a very good chance that I was, and he couldn't risk a possible VillageMistborn!Wilson running around so he tried to have me killed, even though he hadn't wanted to kill me since I have a habit of dying often and early). Eliminator!Hael wouldn't want other villagers to think that I was being deceived by the Traitors--since that would mean they could trust me and a Wilson who holds a lot of information gives Eliminator!Hael nightmares of LG14--so he would open with the most damning option, hoping that it would get people wondering and thinking. Kind of like how he mentioned the mindgaming and people being wary and suspicious of me during the last day cycle. I'm me. I expect people to be wary of me. The reputation that I hate causes people to be naturally wary of me. And that's fine. In a game of manipulation, lying and deception, it's good to be wary of players. But when someone emphasizes that wariness, about something that I know I'm not lying about--particularly when it's someone who has a good idea of the way I play--it makes me wonder what their motive is. I already mentioned that, and I hold to it. Hael's been saying very subtly suspicious things for a while now and my suspicion of him has been building. If this were past!Wilson, I'd go through the game pulling up all of his posts and analyze each and every one of them, writing an essay detailing exactly what suspicious things he's said and why they are suspicious, and even throwing out ideas of what he could be trying to get us to think with those things and do. How he's trying to manipulate us. But this is a Wilson how doesn't wish to spend that much time on the game, so I shan't be doing that. I'd much rather get back to my sappy Christmas romance movies anyway (I swear I'm turning into my mother and my sister >> ). So there are my thoughts. Take them for what you will.

Frame him? Is he serious? Khaos had better things to do than frame people. She knew what she'd seen with her Tin (detect the action of target player), and that had been Professor Hae killing someone (namely Quintus, since Quintus was the only person to...you know....be attacked). Not that she'd really expected to see him kill someone. Sure, she'd thought he was a Traitor--his comments pushing people to be more suspicious and wary of her mindgaming were definitely something that seemed like he had an ulterior motive--but he had 5 other Traitors he was working with. What were the odds that he would actually be the one killing? Still, she'd decided to trail him, with Tin flared all night last night. And that was what she'd seen. The Professor could try to cast doubt on it, making her question her own eyes, but she wasn't that crazy. He'd killed Quintus. And he'd been caught doing it. There was no other explanation. And really, wasn't the Professor one of the last people to cause the death of poor Nightspud a few days ago? He'd been acting suspicious for days. It was really only a matter of time before someone called him out on it.

Khaos hid in a room. She'd seen him. She'd seen the Professor sneak up to Quintus and kill him. And then, in her shock at watching a man be murdered right in front of her eyes, she missed Professor Hae hide the body away. What had he done with it? What had he done with all the bodies? And how long had he been going around murdering people? She'd known there was something off about the man. He'd probably been the reason she'd been attacked the night before. The only question was if he'd actually been the one to do the attacking. Not the Khaos cared about that. She was a little more preoccupied with the fact that she was shaking. Literally quivering in her boots. She lifted her hand in front of her eyes, and it shook uncontrollably. She took a breath. People had been dying, this wasn't like it was anything new. She just hadn't expected to see it. Breathe. When she finally got herself under control, she went to find the other explorers. The Professor couldn't be allowed to live through the day.

I do trust that person, and there are at least three others who know their identity.

First of, LG 22 was a rerun by Gamma of another game Gamma had run so I'm not sure it's the best example. Almost every first run game (and even most reruns) since LG 18 have been complex games. Yes, it's ideal for the games to be more like LG6/22, which is a standard game with a little added flavor, but a person who's built a game with all the things might not be interested in GMing if they're told they need to cut 5 of those things and drop all the secrets. Or GM/co-GM simpler games before their big game (waiting through the list 2-4 times just to get to the game they really want to run). We try to be as accommodating as we can to GM's, even if it might make more sense to just put mass rules in place to limit what GM's can do. And Hael, there's one very big problem with that solution: you're asking three volunteers who are busy with school, full time jobs and other real life things to take even more time out of their schedules than the forum already entails to do something just because the players refuse to. I'm not your personal slave and I have other things I need to be doing. I cannot be on SE every hour of every day making sure that everyone is following a rule that is implemented, and that's what implementing a ton of rules would force for the moderating team. Would that be easiest for the players? Absolutely! But you don't pay me and my job that does wants me working while I'm there. Let's find something that doesn't require a ton of rules. EDIT: I want to be clear that I fully expect some rules to need implementation. But every rule that goes into effect for this ongoing problem is going to require more time from us to enforce them and dole out punishments for them. Which takes more time. If there are 10-15+ rules, that a lot of time. I would prefer a solution that takes everyone's help--moderators, GM's and players--to change the forum. Because in the end, that's what's going to have the most effect: something that everyone contributes to. Not just the moderating team forcing everyone to follow.

El was looking for vials for a Mistborn. I was suddenly expressing my suspicions better via RP in the thread. It's not that hard for a group of 6 people who undoubtedly knew El was looking for vials for a Mistborn to consider that there was a fairly decent chance the Mistborn was me, out of all the people who would/could use El as a proxy. Did I explicitly ask them to not give my role to other people? No, I did not, because it's kind of implied not to spread around who exactly is what role, particularly when the role in question is a Mistborn and the holder of it is someone who has died in every game they've played in the last two years (as El already said, that's 14 games in a row). If someone told you my role and identity, please, inform the thread because I would love to know who it was (or who you're claiming it was).

This thread is actually the perfect place for this discussion. Makes it completely public and therefore more likely to be contributed to by more, which isn't the case with docs. Hm. I have some guesses but nothing certain. I know that there was a game where Luckat and Meta had a long discussion (or multiple long discussions) about inactivity, but I can't recall which doc that was. It was either a spec or dead doc and it was a while ago. But I'm not seeing a doc that both Meta and Luckat were in for the docs that are filled out on the spreadsheet. I think there might've been talk about it in the LG22 spec doc. Possibly LG23's spec doc. I'd suggest any dead or spec doc that Luckat shows as being in in the spreadsheet would be a good place to start. The SE moderator team has been discussing this, because we recognize that there's a problem with inactivity and GM's tackling games that are too complex for them to handle at that point in time. And just too many complex games in a row. But it's a hard thing to moderate without being too harsh. For example, we could implement a rule that anyone who goes inactive in a game for a certain amount of time gets a warning. But if we did that, it would mean that normally active players who just had something bad happen (like losing internet access for a week or whatever else) would get warnings as well as the inactives. There's also the problem that some people who might deserve a warning wouldn't get one because they're not completely inactive. They just refuse to contribute in any meaningful way. Most inactivity problems are things that are going to affected best through the metagame. However, we have talked about giving warnings to players who never even contribute to a game at all, from signup to end. No posts, PMs, doc discussion, or actions. Nothing. And then leaving the metagame to catch the other problems. Or inactivity filters implemented by the GMs themselves. Does this sound like something that might help? The complex game problem is also an issue that's hard to solve, though we've discussed that as well. See, no one wants to GM a game they're not interested in. And that's the problem. If we say that people can't GM a complex game until they GM 3 standard/basic games (or even just 1), a person who's interested in GMing might not ever sign up to GM because they don't want to GM that standard/basic game. Or if they do sign up, they don't actually care about it, so they might get lax about turnovers and clarifications and PMs and all of that. Which would create more problems than it would solve (for both the moderators and the players in the game). That said, I do think that people should have experience GMing before tackling a more complex game. Because part of the problem is that not only do you have the complex mechanics to juggle, but if you're a first-time GM, you're also learning about role distribution and game balancing, and juggling PMs, docs, and rule clarifications and all of that can easily get overwhelming in big games. If you've already GMed, then you don't have to learn how to juggle the PMs, docs, and rule clarifications because you've already done that. You have a little bit of experience with role distribution as well, so you don't have to worry quite as much about that. You just have to pay attention to the mechanics and making sure those are balanced. And since you can pay more attention to that, you're more likely to see a potential problem early and then talk to the impartial moderator to implement a fix for that mechanic before it breaks the game (like in MR10 when I realized early in Cycle 2 that there was a massive communication problem for the village, so I worked out the limited PM system with Meta to help mitigate that problem before it blew up completely and broke the game). We as a moderator team haven't been able to decide on a good fix for that, so I think discussing it here and getting more opinions on it is a good idea. Then, hopefully, we can come up with solution that everyone can agree with and causes the least amount of issues for our GMs.

Do you really think that if someone had told Dani that I was the Mistborn that she wouldn't have mentioned who now in her defense of she'd been set up? She "found out" because she and her Traitor teammates worked it out. She PMed me to confirm it. Do you really think that a villager with a protection item who is unlikely be attacked would protect themselves over a Mistborn? Or over passing a protection item that they cannot use to the Mistborn? Dani's claimed action makes utterly no sense if she were village. She's covering for herself in hopes that people will think she's been set up. But she's offering no additional information to back that set up. Because it didn't happen.

Oh, I read the story and was very highly amused by it.

Hm. Awry logic, squirrel acting out of sorts, recent spiking.... Makes me wonder if fRR got a little experimental in the sources of those spikes...

I'm aware that I couldn't have used it last night. If you notice, I already mentioned that fact. Dani tried to make make me seem more suspicious by saying that I wouldn't have even used the Pewter last night had she passed it, and I reminded her that I couldn't have. Perhaps you missed that interaction though. I also referenced it in one of my first posts this cycle, saying something about how if she'd passed the vial and the kill had succeeded, the vial would've been lost to the house. If she'd passed the vial and the kill hadn't succeeded, I would've been able to block any kill the next night. By not passing me the vial, she made it so there was no chance the vial would get lost nor that I would have protection the following night, should I survive. It's been mentioned multiple times that only El, Seonid, Aonar, Dani, and one other person knew my role. At least, those are the only people I told. The anonymous person, as I've already said, I am nearly certain is not a Traitor right now. El, Seonid, or Aonar could be, but even if they were, I don't think they would've tried to kill me last night. They could just as easily use me. Dani is virtually the only truly questionable person who knew my role and would've tried to kill me. Or had her teammates try to kill me. This is exactly why I told Aonar, Seonid, and El the second everything with Dani happened. I wasn't about to possibly die and let that information die with me--which likely something Dani wasn't counting on when she arranged my death. I have no idea who protected me. I had no item that could protect, and to my knowledge, none of my contacts did either. Here's a general question to everyone: If you had a vial of Pewter (self protects from all kill actions regardless of type for a single night, which is not the case with iron, which only protects from metal-based attacks) that you could not use, and you were in contact with a Mistborn, would you pass the Mistborn that Pewter as soon as you could? If you had a protection item and you were in contact with a Mistborn who claimed to not have any vials and therefore could not protect themselves, would you protect that Mistborn? Or would you protect yourself?

There is one other person person who knew I was Mistborn but as I am rather convinced this person is not a Traitor right now, I'm not revealing them to the thread (though they can if they want). Aonar, El, and Seonid know who it is though.

I couldn't use the vial of pewter that night. It needed to get to me first.

I found a Lerasium bead on Night 2 and ingested it Night 3. The night I ingested it, I was talking to El, who had a vial of Iron that she was going to pass to me, but thief stole it from her, which left me with nothing to do last night and no protection for myself. Dani PMed me for the first time a little over an hour before the cycle ended. That entire night, she'd been in contact with El, and El had been telling me what was going on in that PM. With 50 minutes left in the cycle, she asked if I was the Mistborn. I denied it, but admitted that I knew El was looking for vials of metal. She responded at less than 45 minutes left of the cycle that it's a good thing I'm not the Mistborn, because she was going to pass her vial to me. I decided that if it meant I could get a vial of Pewter that night, it was worth revealing myself to her, even though I was suspicious of her. Not all of my suspicions are going to pan out (as we saw with Len last cycle, who I was near-certain was evil, and am rather irritated wasn't). I responded with 34 minutes left in the cycle that I was indeed the Mistborn and would really like her vial of Pewter (she hadn't mentioned what vial she had before this, so it was my way of saying that I was in contact with El and knew about her conversation with El). Dani replied, asking if she could wait a cycle to give me the vial, because she had another action she wanted to do. I agreed, because I don't believe in forcing players to do something they don't wish to do. I ask and if they say no, then that's it. The most I do is take note of any suspiciousness with that refusal (which not all refusals are going to be suspicious. This one was because of the timing of it). I spent the last 30 minutes of the night PMing Aonar, Seonid and El, telling them what had just happened and giving them the details in case I died. I was almost certain I was going to be attacked because it felt to me like she'd baited me to get me to admit to being the Mistborn and then pulled back the bait once she got what she wanted. And really, what did she do? If she used the Medical Fabrial, who'd she protect? It obviously wasn't me, because if it had been, she would've mentioned that in her first post rather than accusing me of a WGG. So Dani, what did you do last night?