Mckeedee123

Well, yeah, but the other thread is more of a disorganized discussion than anything. Someone brings up a new topic, it gets a few responses, then people move on. The idea here is/was to add onto it so that people don't have to look through the entire thread to get anything. My opinions are just placeholders for when/if people want to add their theories.

Wouldn't someone have noticed her shadow going the wrong way? Or her shadow not going the wrong way anymore once she was replaced?

--Comprehensive analysis of death rattles-- This is going to be a very long post. Thought I might as well give it a special title and all. So, uhh... death rattles, right? Brandon Sanderson has stated that basically the entire climax of the Stormlight Archives is contained within the epigraphs of "The Way of Kings", though we've seen a couple of rattles come true already. I've seen various posts dedicated to the interpretation of death rattles, but here I want to provide a "comprehensive analysis" of them instead of just a disorganized discussion. So first off, what in the name of the Stormfather are they? Obviously, Moelach gives them to people when they're about to die, but what are these people seeing? or... channeling? or... whatever. Well, let's check on some of the ones we think we understand already. “Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew.” “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.” The first is (Spoilers, by the way. Did I mention this post contains spoilers?) presumably Kaladin jumping over the chasm to engage the Parshendi during the climax of "The Way of Kings". The second is Kaladin and Shallan emerging from the chasm with the gemheart in "Words of Radiance". Okay first off, we know that while a lot of the details seem like metaphors... they're not. Death rattles are structured to look vague when you don't know what they're about, but precisely accurate when you do. When analyzing these things, the details and exact wording can be more important than the impression you get upon reading them. If you see any metaphors, imagine them in a literal sort of way. Beware of metaphors. Metaphors are things of the voidbringers (well, technically, so are death rattles, but whatever). The second, and perhaps most important, thing to establish is perspective. It's unclear just who's talking in death rattles. Is the subject describing a scene he/she sees in the future, or is he/she channeling another character? I think the consensus in the community is that some rattle are visions, while others are channeling. Keep in mind, though, that it might be all channeling. In fact, it's quite possible that all rattles are from the perspective of viewpoint characters (Both of the above could be taken from Kaladin and Dalinar's perspective, respectively). Also, note that death rattles are of future events. Moelach is described as an instigator for "precognition", not just any visions. That's important. How is this laid out? I've gone and categorized the rattles in the rough order they were given in (not in the order they appeared). Note that it's a good idea to read and reread the quote several times before and after you read the analysis for it, for comprehension. You might also want to try going and reading the quotes in the "connections?" section. My strategy for comprehension is to reread each individual "thought" in the rattle several times until I feel as if I understand its possible ramifications. Anything else... Ah yes, word of warning: I stayed up pretty late writing these and the line between "creativity" and "dementia" gets fuzzy at some points. So aaaaanyway... let's get to to actual analysis. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 So what DOES lie in Roshar's future? -Death, misery, chouta etc. I mean, I know it's not profound or nothin', but these are the things all of the rattles point to (and chouta eases the pain). -Unmade we know of: -Moelach/Title unkown/Precognition (note that people associate seeing the future with voidbringers) -Re-Shepir/Midnight Mother/"Gives birth to abominations" -Dai-gonarthis/Black Fisher/Destroys dreams? -Sja-Anat/Title unkown/Corrupts spren -Yelig-nar/Blightwind/Consumes people or souls (Nohadon mentions all his scribes were slaughtered when Yelignar broke into his "chancery" during a desolation) -Nergaoul/Title unknown/brings the thrill -For some odd reason, we see two kinds of destruction here in these rattles. One is flames and armies, the other is rain and darkness. Those two don't really mix. The dichotomy probably means there's a difference between what I call the "True Desolation" and the "Night of Sorrows" *Got bored of writing this section* So, yeah. The real reason I posted this wasn't to see if I could figure the future out myself. I hope people discuss this and suggest things to add on to it. Most of the interpretations I made are downright lazy (though I'm proud of quite a few). I'll be prowling this thread like a chasmfiend looking for other interpretations that people bring up so that I can add to them to this (and then put their names next to the addition, of course). EDIT: Whoa, Great! I edited some stuff, and the spoiler things randomly started working! That makes it more readable, I'm sure

Is it possible that some orders were led by Cultivation, not Honor? Does she have her own form of "binding"?

Which brings up all kinds of Cosmere questions. How did Odium come into contact with the Byzantine empire? And how will this affect naval battles between the humans and the voidbringers?

Yeah. that's why I think the speaker is actually channeling someone in the future. Perhaps even Renarin. And I don't necessarily think it's the most important rattle (The one with the suckling child and Valam's seem more relevant to the climax), it would just be fitting for a basic outline of the series to be contained in the first epigraph. Presumably, the first "step to the ice" is the Everstorm. The next part is the True Desolation (probably the voidbringer rampage and the "flames" mentioned in other rattles). The Night of Sorrows is what Dalinar sees in his last vision in the Way if Kings. How else can the dichotomy of burning and cold/raining in these rattles be reconciled?

So speaking of metaphors, there is a very obvious one in the epigraph of the prologue: “The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.” How "metaphorical" is the metaphor in this one? Could it have a slightly literal meaning too? We have several death rattles (and Dalinar's last WoK vision) talking about the sun going cold. Could that be what the "ice" is? If so, I'd guess the "three steps" also have a meaning. Oddly specific number don't you think? Hmm, there's an epigraph later in the book that goes like this... “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” Could these three phrases be referring to the three steps mentioned in the prologue's death rattle? We see them popping up several times in Dalinar's visions. Presumably, they're the same thing (the Everstorm), but in the Recreance vision, they're stated like this: “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” Now, normally I wouldn't presume that the rattle means something so abstract, but the reason I'm suggesting this is because the "the love of men" one is the epigraph for the prologue. In Mistborn, Brandon hinted that the first epigraph we saw had the most important meaning. Wouldn't it be fitting if the entire series was outlined in the very first epigraph? The Everstorm, the True Desolation, the Night of Sorrows. The first two books are a lead-in for the Everstorm. Now we're in the True Desolation phase.

I was ok with the series for the first 2 books. It really went downhill by the 3rd one. By the last two I was actually laughing myself to tears because of all of the ridiculous drama, especially the scene with Nico and Cupid/Eros.

Mek joins the War, a defector from highprince Yenev's army. Mek sat at the campfire, his new squad gathered around him. This, he thought, is what Alethkar deserves to be. Everything was so neat. Soldiers walked by in clean pressed uniforms. The smell of hearty stew wafted through the temporary warcamp. Such a contrast to Yenev's disorganized barracks. Mek felt no loyalty to the cremling. Not anymore. He used to be a minor craftsman living near Dalilak. That was before he was gang-pressed into the military by Yenev's cronies. We need more men to protect us from the Kholin threat, they said. You will be released from your obligations once the war is over. Yenev's army was now strong. His cause was still weak. And Mek had known it. He had trained with reluctance, never able to believe Yenev's excuses and justifications. What have we to fear from a united Alethkar? How could our princedoms possibly be worse off if they were one nation, like Alethela of old? He prayed to the Almighty that he would never actually have to fight Kholin's army. If he killed even one of their heroic soldiers just to defend his highprince's greed, he would never have been able to live with himself. As soon as he got through basic training, he deserted. Deserted and came here. The Kholin army recruitment officer had barely batted an eye. Defections were common, apparently. Now he could fight for something real. Fight for a world where Alethi soldiers wouldn't have to die for their rulers' ambition. Long live The Blackthorn! Long live Gavilar! LONG LIVE ALETHKAR!

Technically, all of the worldhoppers we've seen or heard about are really just easter eggs for 30 years from now when their books have come out and we know who they are.

Exactly. Iyatil is too active in the Ghostbloods. She was sent to assassinate Amaram. Iyatil is a trusted member who has obviously done lots of work for the Ghostbloods. She interferes too much with events to be a spy for a third party. What we're really looking for is a minor minor character. WalDo is probably a scribe for one of the highprinces. In this respect, I really like Danlan. She courted Adolin for a few weeks to get a position among Dalinar's scribes, then dumped him. She happened to possess the voice/features that Adolin likes which allowed her to do that. A few days/weeks later, she joins a branch of the Ghostbloods, but they think she can't perform missions so she doesn't actually do anything there... I'd say she's in a perfect position for gathering information without having to interfere with what's going on.

“Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?” This death rattle seems very relevant. It sounds as if one of the modern KR has lost his/her Nahel Bond.

In Shallan's sketch of the chasmfiend, she comments that the same type of spren that follow the chasmfiend around were also tailing skyeels back in Kharbranth. I think the spren almost definitely help it defy gravity. I'm sure that if you cut a skyeel open, you would find a very tiny gemheart.

Rick Riordan (Heroes of Olympus) writes the stormlight archives. Well, the first five books would be goofy and funny with just enough action and characterization to make you care. Then the second five would go like this: First off, all of the mythology the series uses as a back story would be used up, and it would be replaced with bad drama. They would gather up a team of 7 teenage radiants based solely on their diversity of racial, regional, and ideological backgrounds. The characters would then rebuild the Wandersail, giving it the ability to fly and automatic cannons that shoot a near-infinite supply of giant exploding shardblades, but the ship would always break down for various reasons at just the right times for them not to be able to use it. The characters would have 30 days to travel from Shinovar to New Natanatan. It would take them half a book to fly as far as the shattered plains, then the other 4 and a half would be spent with them traveling along at snail's pace and figuring out how all of the love triangles worked. Whenever the characters needed to fight something outside the ship, they would send one or two guys to do it while the rest stood around looking anxious. Characters would randomly develop irrational hatreds for each other which would be solved after a few half-hearted comments. The entire series would talk about how infallible Odium was, then at the end of the series when he comes back they'd arbitrarily shoot an exploding shardblade at him which kills him somehow and solves all of their problems ... Anything I missed?

I don't think that Brandon Sanderson consciously based the stories on LDS doctrine, with Kwaan's plate or anything. I especially don't think that the concept of shards is based off of the LDS apotheosis doctrine. The whole thing does feel very... LDS to me though, somehow. I read Mistborn and The Way of Kings and got more and more suspicious until I finally looked it up online and sure enough, he was LDS. I guess living in the church gives you a distinctive philosophy on life and human nature. I... I can't even describe it. Everything in his writing just clicks with me. I guess that for one, there's the belief in free will, and that humans have a near-infinite capacity for moral and intellectual growth. Raoden's idea that given a simple choice between good and evil, they will choose good... It's all there. Only the philosophy though. I just don't see anything based deliberately on doctrine. Regarding Jasnah, though, and her realisticness, it's really not all that hard to sympathize with her. I've never been to an atheist forum in my life, but everything Jasnah said was something I'd already mulled over in my mind. I agreed with her, really. (though it doesn't hurt that vorinism isn't actually true)

Epigraph for chapter 68: “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.” This actually sounds like Dalinar to me, because he's actually bonded to the storm. He's had quite a few people who killed his promises. And yes, by the way, the death rattles we've interpreted are not metaphorical in any sense. Every single detail actually happened, and there's actually a possibility that they're all spoken from the perspective of viewpoint characters

Well, yes, but one of those frames is such a perfectly exact match that it is almost certainly the source of the world's shape

From the book, it seems that it took some prodding from Restares to get him to do it, too. Don't forget that Amaram isn't working independently. He's taking orders from some sort of creepy super-ardent who Gavilar apparently believed would be willing to assassinate him.

No. It's definitely not Zahel. For one, the community already knows who Zahel secretly is, and he's, well... not a kandra. He has life sense, which you can tell by how he felt Kaladin and Syl outside his door when Kal came by to ask Zahel to teach him. On a related note, I'm actually sure that most of the kandra survived, not just TenSoon and MeLaan (All Saze had to do was put their spikes back in)

Reading the thread "Hidden things in the map of roshar", Roshar looks to be based on a frame in the 3-d animation of the Julia Set (look it up on Wikipedia)

Actually, I don't think that the Sons of Honor are as dismissable as you say. Sure, the first time I read WoR, I immediately wrote them off as foolish zealots too, but their goals do make sense, in a way. They think that by bringing the Heralds back, they can restore the power of the church, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many religious figures in the book (eg. Kabsal, Pai, Kadash) have shown frustration at their own impotence. The way the devotary system works, ardents can never really offend their owners by chastising them for their wrongdoings. Many Vorin rulers are lauded by their ardents for their wisdom and virtue when the truth is the exact opposite (Exhibit A: Aesudan). The Sons of honor, like most modern ardents, probably don't want to return to the days of the hierochracy, it's likely they just want to reunite the church, end the requirement that ardents be slaves, etc.

I never really understood why Shallan was so convinced that Jasnah's actions were wrong. Cold-blooded murderers, especially thieves, just don't deserve pity. Unjustified murder as part of a crime is the worst form of arrogance, as it implies that the aggressor's desires are more important than the life of the victim. Despite some arguments I've heard, The Broken Window Theory does not mean that criminals are just products of their society. All human beings are free agents, and we have the ability to choose what we do. These 4 men consciously chose to commit murder. They killed innocent people who were on their way to that theater, and in doing so, they rebelled from morality. There is simply no way to justify murder-robbery, and for as long as these criminals remained unrepentant they didn't even deserve a discussion as to whether their deaths were right or wrong.

Breakthrough theory on that image in the upper-right: Just like how the guy in the upper-left is doing a "last clap", the guy in the upper right is performing a "last-juke". The technique involves jumping into the air and doing random yoga poses to surprise your enemies. Do you see the look on that guy's face? Classic.

I think that the 17th shard sees Hoid as a loose cannon, which is why they're hunting him. If he wrote the first letter, and the second letter is a response to that, then what he's doing right now has to do with "pursuing his grudge against Rayse and Bavadin." The 17th shard wants the cosmere to stay like it always has (which means nonintervention in the Rosharian apocalypse). Hoid wants to do something about the situation on Roshar and wherever Bavadin is.

Danlan is my candidate. Would she really be thinking about replacing Elhokar with Dalinar after just a few weeks as a Kholin scribe? She's nonviolent (as far as we know), has a shady background, and has an "in" with both the Kholin house and the ghostbloods (a perfect position for information-gathering)