Stormfather-in-Law

I'm a big PG fan, but...no. I can't align what that song is about with what Odium's eyes are saying.

I'm pretty sure that's the low end guess of where Rysn is headed.

Since when have we seen Nale in fear of his life? Even when drawing his blade, he's always been using it to pick on those weaker then him.

It's simple. They have to spawn in different places otherwise they'd have to worry about campers.

I agree that something about this topic is definitely being held back. Even in my first read through of OB, I found myself anticipating the scene where Dalinar bonds with Gallant, but of course it it did not show up. Surely this was an important enough event in Dalinar's life? The fact that it was glazed over does let loose a few anticpationspren about what it might mean. All we've seen is a hint of the process with regard to Adolin.

I looked at the math and not only does it fail the gut test (my gut tells me it's wrong), the math is correct but the initial assumptions are wrong. First few lines: Wrong given. Density of granite is 2691 kg/m^3. Someone can check my math but think about it: water is 1 kg/liter, or 1000 kg/m^3. Rock is denser. So that calc is off by a factor of 100. There would be a big boom.

You're right - going straight to fire should have enveloped several blocks at least for the weight of a human. I think things like this get fudged essentially so they aren't ridiculously overpowered. Even mass-to-mass conversion is highly iffy - transmuting stone to smoke in a closed tunnel should kill everyone in it from the sudden pressure shockwave.

Well, as long as this is revived, my thought was that the Shin to this day are harboring a bunch of super weaponized martial arts masters armed with honorblades and maybe a boatload of shardblades to boot. I think there was some earlier discussion about this that put the thought into my head, but that's buried deep where this thread belonged. But think on this: 1. No outsiders are allowed into Shinovar. Even trusted traders only get to see the very fringes. Nobody (including the readers!) knows what's in there, but everybody believes they are as peaceful as can be. Perfect for hiding an army behind the guise of a reclusive, pacifist culture. 2. Szeth was taught Kammar - a hand-to-hand martial art. This hints at a warrior subculture passed down through generations. 3. There are hundreds (thousands?) of missing shardblades. We know the Shin have the majority of honorblades and train some segment of their population with them. 4. That past invasion out of Shinovar was quite successful, but apparently did get beaten back in the end. 5. Szeth himself was, before he became truthless, in some sort of position of honor. He knew things nobody else on Roshar knows. He was somehow part of the ruling structure, despite having clearly picked up a weapon. So there you have it. The Shin don't know everything (or they wouldn't have made Szeth truthless), but they have a store of knowledge and weapons that would surprise anyone on Roshar. We don't know enough beyond hints to say for sure, but all those hints point towards secrets and power. I'd be surprised if the Shin's supposed peacefulness isn't a front that hides a formidable foe.

Gavilar's visions started well before "8 months ago." I know we haven't seen the content of those visions directly on screen, but if Honor were still alive at the time I think better info would have been passed along.

Jasnah is powerful (in many ways), knowledgeable, and queen. She's also wise, in some ways, but arrogant about that wisdom - she believes she is rarely if ever wrong. Combine that with some of her hinted-at psychological issues, and I think it likely that she will end up going too far and becoming a tyrant. Consider the queen-of-the-warlike-kingdom equivalent to soulcasting petty thieves, and that's pretty much the picture I have in mind. Determination to do what's 'necessary' whatever the price can cause some fairly interesting side effects, the road to Braize being paved with good intentions and all.

Hrm. So why doesn't Kaladin 'remember' more of Syl's past in return?

Don't disagree with your desire for those other pieces, but I was quite serious. I loved that chapter. Course, it doesn't have to ring your bell like it did mine - that ends up being the point of many of these threads, after all.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Touch Lunamor's POV chapter over my dead body. Even then, I will come back as a shadow and stop you. That chapter is funny, beautiful, meaningful, and intriguing all at the same time. Ranks among the best chapters in all three books for me.

Pink Crystal is probably an Aether.

Wasn't the third book supposed to be Szeth's (at the time Brandon indicated it would be obvious by then)? If so, we may need to wait for his book to get more clarity.

She also knew the painting of her was in Mraize's room before entering. Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuun!

Why did I read this and hear "Mwuahahahahahahahah!!!" in my head? Must be me.

Hmm. Rheology. Solid and liquid are ideals, but not spoken ones . Most substances we think of as either solid or liquid really have characteristics of both. And yep, glass is the classic example, as it is actually partly a liquid that flows very verrrrrry slowly. Just check out old stained glass windows or even just old plate glass. It's thicker at the bottom than at the top. The best example is snot, of course. Our bodies can manipulate its characteristics to be more liquid or solid on demand. ...I have no idea what this thread is about.

I was speaking about Kaladin's squires (not Windrunners, but those who can fly only when Kaladin was near). So, nothing of oaths or the structure of the order itself. Because some of Kaladin's squires later achieved a Nahel bond, the line is sometimes confusing. I think for the squires, a relationship matters in some way - all of Bridge 13 goes up as squires to Teft (who trained them) at the end of OB.

I agree Syl dying would be a tragedy, and I don't think Brandon would do that. Though I think I read somewhere that he admired George R.R. Martin's method of killing off important characters, I don't think he'll do that. However, as several people pointed out, Syl dying is only one speculative way this could come to pass. I think passing the bond would be more likely. This rings true to me, but at the same time, Kaladin's personal struggles have a strong effect on magic through his bond with Syl. Not just in the way his adherence to oaths affects her and affects his personal power. The whole squire concept means that people in that Kaladin consider "Us" gain magical abilities. I don't think you can separate them that easily. The whole episode with Kaladin's squires was really the genesis of my post. That members of Bridge Four, who shared in Kaladin's personal struggle through great hardship together, would become his squires makes total sense. But when people started getting added to the mix that never experienced any of that, I started wondering where the limits were. Does Kaladin identifying with them make them his squires, or does their feeling of inclusion in Kaladin's group make it happen? I really don't know; probably both. But I did start paying more attention to Kal's relationship with Bridge Four and their collective sense of identity.

When you listen to NPR in the car, and every day they do their spiel about sponsors and "brought to you by" and you listen with just half an ear because who really pays attention to that sort of thing. And then they always finish with "And the Listeners..." and instead of thinking of the nice people calling in to donate you picture marbled skin and stringy hair. Every. Single. Time. Seriously, no matter how many times I hear that, for some reason I'm never expecting it. I end up speculating and musing about Voidbringers and their motives for supporting NPR.

I was thinking along those lines. I actually had that quote but removed it from the original post as it didn't seem to fit with the flow, possibly because it points at a conclusion that is bad for Dalinar (and Syl), and I didn't want to go too far down the prediction road. It was: The WoB you added certainly adds spice to it. Foreshadowing? One of those things we look back on later and say "Aha! It was here all along!"?

So I finished a re-read of the series after finishing Oathbringer. Hadn't planned to do that, as I did a re-read before starting Oathbringer, but it felt like so many ? moments from the earlier books have now become ! moments, I had to go back. Something I saw this time through is a trend with Kaladin over the arc of the books so far that I had not seen before. What I noticed reminded me of this worthy (non-WoB) quote: What I think: Kaladin has a tendency to shake the "them" box, and then take those that fall out and put them into the "us" box. The origin of this tendency is his father, Lirin. And I think this will become significant in the future. Of course, Kaladin does not start this way. As a slave, Kaladin has been broken down to the point of having an "us" box consisting of one person: himself. And he has been trained like this: Emphasis mine. The quote is from near the end of WoK. Those that have finished Oathbringer will note the contrast between that and what happens later in Kholinar. Bridge Four As we know, Kaladin stops caring just about himself and begins to strongly identify with Bridge Four. Over the course of WoK, they become his "us" people. But what really is Bridge Four? It starts as a set of individuals, but morphs into only an idea, a concept. Even before WoK ends, Bridge Four starts expanding to become Bridge Four Plus, as members from other bridge crews get added to the group. Here's where Kaladin begins helping wounded members of other bridge crews: So, no longer is Bridge Four limited to the original members. Other bridgemen stop being "them" and start getting added to Kaladin's group of "us." And it doesn't stop there: Bridge Four expands further to include, of all things, a Parsh. I think it meaningful for the future of the series that Kaladin brought a parshman into his 'us' group here. After his later return to Bridge Four, Rlain has a tough time, but Bridge Four only continues to grow as a concept and as a group. To include various random Herdazians. And women. And lighteyes. From Rlain's viewpoint: I'm no voidbringer, but if I had to predict the future I would bet Rlain gets over his difficulty and takes to the sky himself. Lighteyes Kaladin's attitude towards lighteyes throughout the books also slowly changes. I doubt I need to point out that lighteyes are strongly in his "them" box at the beginning of the series. But near the end of WoK, we see a small shift: In the interest of not making this fifteen pages longer, I won't trace in detail through all of Kaladin's shifts in attitude about lighteyes, but I will point out that it is masterfully done over the course of several books: his assumption of guard and leadership duties befitting a lighteyes, his ability to fit in with either lighteyes or darkeyes by shifting his own eye color, his realization that lower dahns of lighteyes in the wall guard feel towards the upper just like darkeyes feel towards lighteyes in general, not to mention just about everything with Renarin and Adolin...all these things slowly shift his concept of the lighteyes being "them" to "us." But my main point doesn't apply to Bridge Four or lighteyes. There's another "them" that looms larger: The Parsh Again, emphasis mine. Think back on the scene that WoM* references: immediately behind Kaladin was Bridge Four. You could easily interpret this to say that friends before him were Dalinar and his troops. But what was immediately in front of Kaladin in the actual scene? Who held the stormlight in gemstones in their beards? It's the Parshendi. Wait, so they are the friends now? The actual referenced scene doesn't happen too long after Kaladin labels them "the enemy." *Word of Moelach, of course. And it doesn't stop there, though this tendency does take a break in WoR. In Oathbringer, the trend goes front and center: Along these lines, I particularly like the conversations between Kaladin and Syl, regarding the shifting perspectives of right and wrong, and by inference who is right and wrong, who is "us" or "them." and All this culminates in his inability to keep the Parshmen in his "them" box: and of course in his crisis and inability to continue the fight at a critical juncture, due to these changing perspectives: There we have it. Too many people in the box marked "Us." Kaladin frozen as a result. But could this tendency of his have a different effect in the end? Might he end up putting all of Roshar into the "Us" box, and in doing so ending up being the force that unites? I think there's sufficient foreshadowing going on to point that way. Of course, there are lots of pointers heading in other directions as well, and we all know to be wary of anyone who claims to be able to see the future. So this isn't really a theory. More like it's just an observation I think will become significant. I'm not going to make any real predictions about what this may mean for Kaladin (or Dalinar), as I'd rather let Brandon tell the tale. On the other hand, Kaladin does seem rather well suited to Unite Them should Dalinar...err well, follow Honor's Path.

This is pertinent to the discussion at hand, and always struck me as very odd. While everyone is discussing whether Gavilar or Dalinar are worthy of a bond with the Stormfather, keep the above in mind. In between them, we have a Karbranthian potter. Not just a potter, but one who had so little friends / family / power that the Silent Gatherers were able to grab him. They only take those who won't be missed by society. So how does that fit between two very flawed highprince/king types? The other piece of this is that the Stormfather only sought this bond because he was commanded to by Honor. He did this only reluctantly and with outright hostility towards mankind in general. Even after forming the bond with Dalinar he acts petulant at best. Could it be he was purposely choosing bondsmiths he thought would fail?

I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this, but my working assumption is that Odium is beaten in book 5, and that Cultivation ends up being the "my God Beyond, what have we unleashed?" in book 6.