Kasimir

Current placeholder on Sart. I'm back to the tell where Sart's usually Evil when we both vibe. My instinct is to just exe in <Drake, Stick> but I am hesitating on whether that's a constructive instinct. It might need more time to wargame. In theory, there's probably a slight possibility here someone has a line of play to kami no itte this. But it won't be me with CNY. I am not sure how I feel about JNV and am considering if MR67 and CNY have destroyed my ability to read them. Edited to add: Can someone post I might wanna unvote Sart because I have reread again and he just made one post that seems crazy enough to me I'm reconsidering.

wtaf did i sleep through

Alright. Probably last for the day from me as there's more Dragon Year crap and a memorial. -Not fond of Aeo's entrance into the game. Feel Aeo is a good place for pressure. -Neil getting off aggressively is good and I like the attitude but I also feel Neil is simultaneously overcredencing and overdismissive, and dislike insistence on playing this like a regular game - it isn't one, and the wincons reflect this. Am concerned this is an Elim perspective. Potentially willing to sheep depending on grounds of Stick's read - bracket for now. (There's a side-note about potentially ascribing Neil a better read on the basis of Alv confusion, similar for Aeo, but I don't feel this is convincing to me due to lack of overall presence and the fact Neil has derped as an Elim before, cf. MR67.) -Do not like Aman's disappearance. Aware Aman has work but believe we both spent a decent chunk of time lurking and feel Aman has easier entry-points into the thread given low thread volume and little substantial discussion. In light of this, concerned about: A. lack of WiM, and B. Aman bandwidth being drawn into doc. -Dislike Raven's entry point, and am concerned about Stick as Stick has often stated she despises purity reads (more later on.) Agree this hasn't backfired so far but Raven's opening felt very much like it was trying to overchannel normalcy, and I typically am mildly concerned about those things - similar to Jain, less so as I don't strongly feel Raven was overplaying this. -Dislike Royal's sole concern with perception. Curious about a Royal/Stick connection due to slight 'notice me noona' vibes from Royal's most recent post. -Noted Drake's lack of presence. Similar concerns to Aman, probably watered down a bit as Drake is less plagued by the WiM issue than Aman as a tell. -No strong feel on Stick. Dislike derpclearing Stick on principle for stated reasons + Stick is absolutely capable of doing that. Slightly like Stick's defense of Neil as it doesn't feel E/E, but that's more a point in Neil's favour than Stick's. For now, provisional V lean on the basis of liking Stick's dgaf about perception but IMO if Stick keeps it up into C3, she deserves pressure - she knows better than this. Purity read issue a question that haunts me. -Someone will be able to read Alv. It won't be me. If he's Village, we struck the jackpot, if he isn't, good luck to us I guess. -Faerie can fit the same profile IMO due to loitering and solo vote on Alv. Lack of Presence: -Sart -JNV I'm more willing to excuse JNV's absence compared to Sart as I believe we both celebrate the Dragon Year, so they might be just as overwhelmed. Sart I think is readable but I can't form a read in absentia. Probably washes out to something like: Stick (???? - very asterisked.) Neil (? - if sheep; see if Stick can give a more robust basis for comfort) - Aeo??? Alv - Raven??? Faerie, Drake Royal Aman Now cracks a noble heart. Good-night, sweet prince And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

Any possibility of further articulation to help me out here?

To perhaps sharpen the point- IMO this is the comparator. We (Korathi, thread-level Village) expected the Jeskeri to send the exe among themselves, but of course they didn't. To some extent, I've tiptoed around trying to guess how the Elims will behave this game because it combines enough elements to be unpredictable that I think it's just more fruitful to wait and see. I think, however, at base level, some expectations are fairly reasonable: upper limit of 4 Elims, more likely 3 at 12 players, 4 with one Insider is risky if they detect the Insider early and potentially allow for some form of synch. Possible TJ doesn't expect vote synch since the Informant can't convey the Insider's name (yes, this is one scenario we wargamed.) A. The Elims can win by outnumbering and then controlling vote dominance. However, this is actually a pretty indirect way to win, since they'd be brute-forcing outside the doc and turning inside the doc. B. They really just need the Contact and Informant dead and they immediately win regardless of how many Villagers are still alive. This means they'd be certifiably insane not to feel each other out inside the doc, even if they spend time putting up a united front outside the doc. Because they are guaranteed one hit within the 3-4 players in the doc, which is actually really good odds, only counterbalanced by the fact the Informant flips red so they don't know when the Informant is dead. (Hence it being strategically important for the Informant and Contact to fool them for as long as possible.) C. They are voting to place the kill and votes cannot be altered once cast. This also means they have pretty high incentive to actually discuss in the doc - that's why I say it's a Village-within-a-Village format of sorts. Under all those circumstances, I expect most Elims and especially the Informant to be playing two 'Village' games at once, which should tell on itself in terms of thread behaviour and potentially link analysis (QF46 considerations applied.) I don't see the point in ignoring that the Elims have to be conditioned by their wincon and actually consider dismissing it to be mildly questionable, if not suspicious. Curious about your Neil read. I don't fully share it and am considering if he's overcredencing.

I regard Raven as a more natural LHF than her. Aeo fights MLs tooth and nail (I don't follow MU), so is not a natural Elim ML target. The game has just started and we're on p2. I don't see why that's not a valid place or presumption to do a starting vote. The Elims win by killing the Informant and the Contact. They can win by going for brute outnumbering, but gambling they'll be spicy enough to kill among themselves to try to out the Informant feels like wishing the Elims would misplay to me. I do think compromised Elim docs, by design, are riskier places and they're placing votes for the kill, meaning it's more a nested Village (cf. that infamous Village-within-Village game) mech in effect than one. I think it's reasonable to look for where the cracks can show. Edited to add: Btw just let me know if I'm too aggressive. Not in the mental state to assess tone rn.

Does she? After the last two Aeo MLs, I explicitly took the position in MR67 and the QF that I wanted to be careful about her because I'm aware that her chaosplay tends to trigger my 'this is Evil!' instincts. In my view, she's very good at appearing Village given pressure, so there is no reason not to elicit more from her by testing her pressure response. Aeo's very clearly hanging back this game and had a muted entrance which is unusual - I'm not going to cut her slack for it and I'm concerned the hanging back is best explained by the fact the Elim doc is dealing with shuffle squats trying to figure out what they wanna do about the Informant.

I'm not confident the Elims would've picked it up, because simply put, I keep missing things about this game and again, I helped TJ build it and approve it. As much as two days ago, I was grilling him on scenarios that involved some factor of the rules (especially the flips element) that just slipped both our minds. So I'm not really sure I feel super convinced this is a V!slip - I can see that, but from my experience, it's also really absurdly easy to overlook. I will state this once and for the record, then: I have stated prior to this game beginning that: I've been dealing with squalling kids all day and this will be my life for the next three to four days, I absolutely hate kids, every parent thinks their spawn is absurdly adorable which is not my position on this, and I haven't remotely been able to get personal space to even grieve the death of the one guy who gave a damn about me back when my form teacher herself was bullying me, as I alluded to in my first post. I'm sure there are layers on which we can talk about whether this is an rational emotion but this is the Dragon Year, everyone's expecting me to be happy and chipper. This is the one place I'm not gonna mask the fact I'm bummed out and actually just either emotionally flatlined or barely functional right now. You wanna vote me for it, don't let it stop you, have fun. Edited to add: Should I have pulled out? Maybe, but TJ needed every player he can get, and a depressed, flatlined Kas is still a Kas who can meet a two post minimum and do the basic job. I don't really care to do more, and if you feel you need to vote me, you do you.

THE INSIDER DOES NOT GET ACCESS TO THE ELIM DOC SIS WHAT ARE YOU EVEN SMOKING god is she village is this just E!Stick doubling down because I cannot even wtf actually

I've mentioned why enough in the thread and find it distasteful to repeat myself or blue things - if you don't think I'm obvtown, maybe ask yourself if you are Village

You're welcome for needing me to inform you about how your role works

I approved this game, sis I also helped TJ build very small bits of it. Thread PM: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL Kas - Drake

@Amanuensis: Thread PM: Kas - Aman @DrakeMarshall Thread PM: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL Kas - Drake Thoughts: -I'd like to see the Stick/Neil interaction play out. -Village's job should be to be as noisy as possible. I don't usually bother with strategising but we have a paucity of discussion and I know SE doesn't tend to play Avalon type rulesets as much, so it's worth saying. Ideally if you are not the Contact or the Informant, your job is to appear to be the Contact or Informant* (lol) to force the Elims to miskill. -Contact needs to be subtle. I'm sorry but what Stick did in Araris's game was not bloody subtle, and we got punished for that with a Village loss If you are correct all the time or your inferences are too sharp, you will be caught. If you are leading the charge too much, you will be caught. -Insider is going to be especially problematic IMO because the Insider flips Village so has an incentive to appear as Villagery as possible. As I pointed out to TJ, the trade-offs for subwoofing in this ruleset are quite different and this Elim is set up for it. -Informant's job is to be strategic about the names handed over (try to give super connected ones so the Contact can work the rest out), and otherwise, ngl my main reaction at this role was to tell TJ "poor bugger." Informant flips Elim so your job is to look as Evil as possible to your teammates while quietly helping the Village - the moment the Elims feel the Elim doc is clean, the Village has lost one hell of an advantage. As much as you can keep them Spiderman pointing at each other and sussing each other, our operating environment is way easier to work in. -Slight Jain off Raven. Don't feel it's a useful reaction either way. -I like Neil's attitude but don't feel I can give a read off it right now. -Dubious of Aeo. Probably most likely to vote Aeo -Aman ??? -Good to see Sarge again @Alvron

In memoriam. RIP sir. Thank you for everything you taught me. I wore black to the funeral. It wasn't rainin'. If it were, I guess the prof woulda approved of it. "Sympathetic background," he called it. But it wasn't the time of year for rain, and real life wasn't minded to be cooperative. Something it had in common with the criminals, I guess. I knew the Boss wouldn't be happy about this, what with the Octet and all that, but the way I figured, it was my leave and if he didn't like it, that was on him. Which was to say, I didn't really give a damn. Maybe some of the kids there looked at me funny. But there were a bunch of people about as old as I was. Some of 'em even had grey in their hair, so I didn't feel too left out. Nice of 'em, really. Maybe you'd say it's odd for me to be so torn up about this. 'Course, those years were some of the best of my life. I dream about 'em sometimes, when I'm not dreamin' about the bad ones: cold cases, cases when I'm too late to make a difference. The way his shoes squeaked against the floor of the lecture hall. The way he seemed to notice the moment anyone at all was talkin' and swivelled and stared at the latest object of his wrath. The unmistakeable scent of aged paper. The whisper of pages turning and the scribbling of pens. We never talked, near the end. I listened to some of the stories there, some of them talkin' about this and that he'd done, and nodded politely, and never said anythin' so no one asked what a copper was doin' at a funeral for a literature professor and all that. You didn't do Lit at the University, and not get taught by him. It was pretty damned impossible. Word of his death felt like lightnin' cleavin' a clear blue sky, with the world split forever after. I was in awe of him, of course. You didn't do Lit, and not be on the receivin' end of that knife-sharp wit, time and again. Made those fancy, obscure things seem clear as day, when he talked you through 'em. Could ask why I picked that class. Most people ain't joinin' the Constabulary through the University, and them as do, you gotta bunch in Criminology, Politics, all them useful stuff. Me though? Guess you could say I was a dreamer, and I drifted through his classes and I liked the way he talked so I went down to the registrar and told 'em to sign me up for more. So that's what I did. I didn't belong here though, in my shabby black suit, as those poets and playwrights talked on and on. But I was here because he taught me, and I guess you could say he was the first person to give a damn about me, and maybe that mattered. Maybe that was why I kept comin' back, 'til he got fed-up and told me to go on and live my life and stop lookin' back. God, look at me now, bein' all maudlin and stuff. Boss would've had cats. Weizel was never one for this sorta thing. Guess he and the prof woulda got on like a house on fire: prof never had any time of day for what he termed 'sentimental instant-vomit.' But I had a job to do, didn't I? So I went to the funeral, and then I left, and maybe I had the funeral in my heart, and imagined the dirt on the coffin, and all those crap we tell ourselves when we let ourselves get attached even when we shouldn't. We'd said goodbye years ago, really, and of all of 'em there, I had the least claim to grief. I was a copper now. Had to keep lookin' forward. Had to get movin' and find the Octet. So I pushed past the gate of the University, and took the long, slow road back to the Eighth Octant, where I could walk and think alone in the quiet.

Riven, was it? Hadn't known much of him, but I figured if Riven was lollygaggin' outside, then the Boss probably wanted to see him too. Last I reckoned, Riven was in on Lightsout, so maybe the Boss wanted to take his measure. Dunno. I wasn't bein' paid to speculate on the Boss's state of mind, and it wasn't worth my guts to spill what the Boss'd said—Weizel'd made that pretty damned clear, and he was in one helluva temper on account of the fizzlin' of Lightsout, as like courtesy of the Constable-General himself, so I wasn't about to tempt fate. I shrugged at Riven and went on my not-so-merry-and-very-much-broody way. One way or another, he'd figure it out, if Boss wanted him in on the know. Wasn't my problem, that.

I'm not GMing this I'm allowed to have bros who don't make 777+ message PMs phishing smhhhhh

"Kowalski," the boss rasps. "Analysis." Right on cue. I've been expectin' this. Everyone's been jumpy since Operation Lightsout became...well, the utter clusterfeck that "was a thing", puttin' it politely. Worse words for it, if you were minded to. I've known some of those plannin' that op as'd use harsher words for it. See, the problem in the Eighth Octant is the Octet. Truth to be told, I think the problem in Elendel is the Octet. We've ignored 'em for too long, so lads got too big for their britches. One way or another, any vice, any criminal activity in Elendel can be traced back to a tentacle of the Octet, and I ain't puttin' that lightly. Gold smugglin', drug dealin', kidnappings, murder-for-hire: scratch the surface of anything criminal goin' on in Elendel and you'll find someone affiliated with the Octet involved in it. Money laundered through those spankin' new casinos in Bilming washes the funds clean, snuggles them into the pockets of some crooked coppers and Senators, and that's how couple of decades later, we gotta problem. Which is a nice way of puttin' it agan, of course. By this point, the problem's metastatised, if what we're lookin' at is right. See, Lightsout was s'posed to be the highlight of the Constable-General's career. Put an end to some of the more lucrative money laundering businesses goin' on in the Eighth. Criminals are all the same, Octet or otherwise. "Follow the money," the boss'd always say, back when we was coppers together. (Well, that's not really true. What he'd always say was, "Kowalski, analysis." Ain't saying that bothers me, though. Nice to know some things don't change, even now he's gone respectable and sitting behind a desk rather'n on the streets. But thing is, followin' the money's half the story. What we wanted to be doin' was to be kneecappin' the Octet, and that meant cutting off the cashflow. So that was Lightsout. 'Course, it all went to hell in a handbasket, didn't it? So I tell it to him like it is. "Eighth's crooked, Boss," I say. I don't know if that harsh noise is a laugh or a cough. He quickly clarifies it by glaring at me, eyes narrowed to slits. "Surely you can do better than that. Of course Eighth's crooked. Are you crooked, Kowalski?" I make a show of looking at my patchy coat. Kept me warm on many a beat, though. "Be better paid if I were, Boss." "Then why are you giving me this sort of banal crap?" Boss demands, testily. "I asked for analysis, not the obvious!" I sigh. "Face it, Boss," I say. "The rot goes all the way to the top. This was the Constable-General's peak, his throw of the dice, his major ops. He played it close to hand, carefully picked every single copper as was in on it. Textbook ops planning. But it got royally bollicked, didn't it?" The Boss nods, toying with the letter opener on his desk. Seen him stab a ganger with it, once. It's dull nowadays. I ask myself if he's lost his edge, this long on the desks. I don't say it aloud, though. Wouldn't be respectful. 'Sides, I'm pretty sure Weizel's as sharp as he's always been. Hard to put one past him. "What I'm sayin'," I say, warmin' to my topic, "Is that I'm pretty sure the Constable-General's probably solid but at least one of the guys he thinks is clean ain't. The Octet's got someone on the inside, someone clean, someone high up." The Boss sighs, relenting. He sets down the letter opener, point-first. He smiles. I've seen wolves with a nicer smile than that. "Why, Kowalski," the boss says. "I was just coming to that conclusion myself." I hesitate. The boss lights up, offers me one. I decline. Ain't much for the stench of smoke myself. Man's gotta have other vices. "This one's top secret," the boss says, dryly. "So naturally I'm telling it to you." "I appreciate the trust, Boss." "...So if I hear word gets out, I'll shoot you myself." There's the boss I know so well. "Sure thing, boss." "We got a man inside the Octet," the boss says. He glares at me when I can barely hide my scoff. "What, you think it's funny?" "Boss, sure we got a man inside the Octet. Sure we been tryin', since everyone knew the Octet meant business. We ain't good at keepin' them inside the Octet, though. Octet roots them out quickly." "Well, believe it," the boss says. I find myself thinkin' about Bilming now. Among others. Never really expected Weizel and I would've become friends, truth be told. I wonder about why they never reassigned Weizel, when they reassigned Vex. Don't feel particularly wise, to me. But I've never been one of those higher-ups now, have I? "So we got a guy on the inside. What's he say?" "Constabulary's infested," the boss says, with relish. As though he's thinking about the size of the problem ahead, unflinching. "And the Octet, they got someone deep. Someone so deep, they paid for that inside guy to go through University and all that." I chew on that. They'd need their insider to be clean, of course. Squeaky clean, with the occasional vice that makes you snort and dismiss 'em. Boring. The sorta guy the Constable-General'd tap for Lightsout, without realising. "All of Lightsout is compromised, then," I say. "Looks like," the boss grunts. "'Course, that includes you, Kowalski." "I'm flattered," I say. "So, how'd we find 'em?" The boss gives me that squinty-eyed glare again. "You're the detective," he says, bitingly. "I'm just the captain. You figure something out. We need the Constabulary clean, or the Octet owns Elendel, Kowalski. No two ways about it." I take my time about it. "Way I see it," I say, slowly, "There's only one gang callin' the shots in Elendel, and that's the blue gang." That smile, again. "I like your attitude, Kowalski. Now get to work."

Menace. Actual menace. #ThreadPMBro Expecting to be more sporadic than usual this game. NAs celebrate Turkey Day, East Asians celebrate Dragon Year (with China and Taiwan doing the full week/ten days short of the actual twenty-three), and it's going to cut into this game, but why let RL stop me from establishing a more healthy relationship with SE

Yeah, sorry to hear. Wingsung nibs are generally alright but in all honesty, Chinese nibs are a Russian roulette and I say that as someone who uses a lot of Chinese pens. Might be an alignment issue, might not be (Chinese pens are not normally feedbacky), but going for the penmanship here is the good move for sure.

Wow that sure is the face of a guilty murderpuppy

You know what you did I think that's easily my favourite and Stick's favourite of all the SE games we've played

I don't trust u around PMs sir u r literally a menace

Were those by any chance Wingsung nibs? Because that really sounds like the primary source of nibs for a Pilot met/78G+.

Don't PM me

Exactly We can all Spiderman point to each other as being Evil and then find out that TKN is Evil again and we are actually all just confused Villagers