Kasimir

Nope, and my bad - you went Weasel, Dingo, Rhino, with Rhino and Ross being your two biggest suspects. True, I'll blame Wyrm for this too 'Cause I was massively paranoid and focused on getting the lynch right rather than blocking a hammer? You were right though, and I knew the hammer block mattered more that late. Thank goodness I swapped back... Technically untrue but also, why would you curse me like this. Oh right. Obligatory "what were the codes even." So - the dirty secret. I used an OTP system, meaning that while my base message would likely be lost (I didn't use the most secure OTP available) an Elim could have constructed a plausible cipher probably and just made up whatever. I'm not the best with codes so I tend to rely on misdirection rather than actual foolproof security. OTP system = plaintext + key = ciphertext using a mod 26 system. You convert both plaintext and key using a simple alphabetical substitution cipher, mod 26 it, and then reconvert it back into letters. To reverse, ciphertext - key using a mod 26 system. The trick I did - which tied in to 'Atticus dreams of past lives' RP - was to plant the key for the following Turn's cipher in my RP each Turn. Mat noticed I'd seeded a white L at points. The L/M/Q denotes if the line in question came from RP done in a MR, LG, QF. Sometimes it'd be embedded in a paragraph, like so: In this case, the RP line was cribbed from MR1, so it was the first line in the paragraph. I had one that was from LG5, so there was a whitetext L, and it was on the fifth paragraph of my RP. The substitution cipher used depended on which game it was from - LGX/MRX/QFX, with A = X. (This was functionally the same system I used for my Tineye cipher, with T=1, T=2, T=3 in ascending order with each following write-up. Tineye messages were themed. N2 Cipher - the Sator square was purely thematic and meant to throw people off into thinking it had to do with how everything was neatly segmented and enciphered. Really it was just that same OTP system using T=1. The centrality of TENET in the Sator square does hint at what the key is though - a line from Tenet. The ciphertext deciphers to a line from Tenet I won't spoil The centralised letters always were from a YouTube video - inserted into a YouTube URL, this one gives Posterity from the Tenet OST. The strange alphabet are dragon runes from Skyrim, and it's a translation of some lines from the Skyrim theme: N3 Cipher - Norse/Valhalla themed. Hint is from the words in the centre and the rune - yeah, it's from Wardruna. I later threw in a line from the Vikings just to make up space. The song this time is Wardruna's Helvegen and the centre words and first enciphered message is in fact from Helvegen. The dragon runes capture another line from the Skyrim theme: N4 Cipher - LotR/Shadow of Mordor themed. The symbol in the centre is from Shadow of War so that was a hint. The lines on the left are Sindarin, which I borked a bit as there's one line before that I forgot to include, but it's the lettering from Talion's sword, Urfael. As the hint suggests, the ciphered text are the lines from Talion's dagger, Acharn: The video is actually Dragostea din tei with no relation at all, just that I insisted on getting one troll/meme video in And the dragon runes once again come from the Skyrim theme: There we go And after that I resigned to grabbing workform or being bait for Vulture so I did not vandalise the write-up further.

Thanks for running this game Steel, and for uh, dealing with my thousand and one rule clarification questions Oh man I was quietly rooting for you to add it to your collection Thoughts I guess: Quiet RPful game when - okay, this one was Eiwlil's fault. I felt really bad about unintentionally lynching her - I'd actually not been paying too much attention C1 other than to clock Swan and Eiwlil and so adopted standard Eiwlil tactics. I intended to remove my vote for her and put it elsewhere later on. Devo called me on this D2 when she PMed me and pointed out I hadn't even realised there were three trains at that time, including a Dingo train I somehow didn't track. And then I went off to play Hades - thanks Wyrm! - it was supposed to be a quick round and by the time I beat the final boss, it was...past rollover. Big whoops and I felt guilty so I decided to make it up by actually trying to play the game properly rather than engaging chill RP troll mode, as had been my plan. I actually had an elaborate plan to be a lazy anti-RP chill troll with really bad RP that progressively got better across the game to the point I was obviously faking it, and then have a Spartacus Spartakas pun moment a second before getting lynched. IDK as you can see I was just planning to chill intensely. Being described as a melded mind of Burnt and Illwei has got to be the best thing anyone said about me this game Artform is fun. I'll never get tired of getting to vandalise write-ups. The last time I was a Tineye was in QF6. That's forever ago. Is this the first game Village Eiwlil hasn't voted an Elim D1? 'Cause she went on Rhino, Ross, and Weasel, or Mat, Stick, and Mist. Can't really say I dislike analysis that much, and doing it is soothing/interesting, I like puzzle-solving, and it was a nice distraction from life stuff, less cool when it was siphoning up my long weekend of leave, even less cool when I was somehow in two lylos simultaneously and wondering how this happened >> I don't think I lied about anything that I can recall this game apart from trying to soft Mediationform, so I guess the Elim doc going "Is Lion lying???" was actually kinda funny. (Also ironic given my lying spree in the MR...) Elan saying in the Elim doc that Vulture wouldn't give up warform felt like vindication Part of this was circumstance - Mouse had given Vulture the Mediationform gem and we weren't going to lose tempo playing 'pass the gem.' The other part was that it had the appeal of being really neat: exactly - who would give up an extra passive life for a double vote? Except that the public knowledge that Vulture was warform made him a pretty good candidate, since I doubted the Elims wanted to waste a kill - and thus tempo - on him. Which meant my job (and pretty much everyone in the Slog PM and Mouse, so Rhino, Dragonfly as well) was to soft mediationform and confuse the targets. I'm gratified to see that Heron picked up on how obvious I was being Well I guess I technically Aes Sedai-ed the Mediationform thing when Elan tried to phish whether it was Mouse from me, but well >> Good play from the Elims - managing to stay off the lynch and the radar for this long was pretty impressive, and I think no overt plays on the Tuatara tie D1 really served you all well. I'm amazed by how much hammer planning went on there Good job to the Village for not allowing a hammer through. I'm not terribly shocked but still rather !!! at the knowledge that Mat was right to keep yelling about consolidation D5 when deviation from the Heron train nearly allowed the Elim team to hammer, possibly to devastating effect. I feel like so much of the Elim doc is them checking if they can hammer, but Village participation and steadfastness blocked that. Special shoutout to @Jondesu and @Mist for stepping up especially in endgame. I don't ever want to hear anyone talking smack about Burnt's RNG method again since I used it to RNG (admittedly biased but) up a pure Village PM N1

@DrakeMarshall - given the way the Oops Incidents in this game panned out, I don't feel right taking your firemark You keep that one!

Tagging @Fifth Scholar and any other players who, like me, have experienced the recent devastation of the post editor eating up your posts: This appears to be (I could be wrong!) a result of leaving the session too long. Those posts of mine that got eaten, the window stayed upon on the computer for hours as I had other stuff to do in between, and then when I recovered it, maybe a third of the post had been auto-saved. The one thing that works (when I do remember to do it) is to ctrl+A / select all (if on mobile) and copy/cut. Reload the window, clear the editor, paste, and reformat (if you have justification issues), and post again. It should go through without fail. Making a habit of copying a longpost prior to posting saves you much suffering and why as well. Cheers, -The Guy Who Recently Got Screwed Over Repeatedly By The Hungry Post Editor

What can I say, my cards bring all the scans to my yard... Hang on a second - if Drake used Two of Pens, and Archer One of Pens, don't we get a double lynch? Archer voted Drake, so peeling off one vote should leave us Archer:Drake 2:2.

That's why I kept theorising the Elim team had a Clever. I initially thought Drake was Evil - that the reason I was being left alive was to soak suspicion, but then I started to think it was because someone saw my cards C1, realised I had One of Guard, and decided it wasn't a IKYK they wanted to roll for. ...As it turned out, everyone and their chull saw my cards C1 Yeah, that's what I did. But there wasn't any point in admitting it Edited to add: Drake, while I did think you were Evil C2, it wasn't really a strong suspicion. I pushed back very aggressively because I was hoping to incite you to keep your vote on me, maybe attract one or two more votes. My thought was that the Elims wouldn't waste a NK on me, allowing me to save my One of Guard for when it was really needed, as long as it seemed there was a decent chance I'd get caught in a tie and lose the extra life that way. Edited to add 2: It's a logic puzzle involving truth conditions. I was more likely to get sense out of that than the voting patterns, and as a trained philosopher, how could I not want to engage with it

Thanks for GMing this to Lotus and Eiwlil. I had fun, though it was also stressful because being one of the last Villagers standing at lylo usually is, not to mention, you know. The thing a number of us can't talk about. Quiet RPful game when As is obvious, I blatantly lied about the One of Guard, figuring at best I might deter a NK, or figure out if someone was a role they shouldn't be if they seemed to know I'd used it up. I used it C3 because Archer gave me a bad feeling I might die. I considered a late hammer on Archer with my Two of Pens but decided that was too chancy. Ultimately, I used my One of Spears during the xino round, praying for a One of Guard or Shardblade, just in case we had to go another round. Thankfully, Drake made a clutch save. And then I pulled a Soulcaster and a Two of Guard, which was not the card I wanted during lylo, but I figured I'd just use it to change my Two of Guard to One of Guard just in case we went another round. I didn't have a One of Guard anyway/anymore so the game plan was: if it ended this round, too bad; otherwise, I'd bluff about having run out of protects from laast round, try to sell the 'gg Village' and try to lure the Elim into going for a NK on me so I could get us lynched together and self-protect. I did have bad gut about Archer, and I'd kind of worked out why (but I can't talk about it - again!) But I also did flip the Singaporean 50 cent coin because there was only so much bandwidth I had - again, the thing we can't talk about. C3 it said to kill Araris, C4 Archer (I didn't listen), C5 Archer (this time I listened.) Majulah Singapura! Guess trusting you was the right decision, Drake Even if it took us at least four cycles to actually work together. Ash clutch kill. Imma say this again.

I get that, but as the roleblock doesn't stop a NK, it does seem to require you inferred or otherwise assumed he was going to do something roleblockable. I'm also surprised you didn't just go for a late hammer on Drake as you have a Two of Pens and only you and I were on that late. This would have led to a Village win no matter what, as far as Village Archer was concerned. That's exactly what I meant. That you clearly expect players - under a specific set of conditions - to be able to tell if they were roleblocked. So why is there a dispute now about whether players are told if they are roleblocked or not? I think the point I mean is that these tend to be stylistic rather than restricting content. They don't punish the player for lying, merely require them to add in a stylistic marker. They also tend to be less blatant, e.g. no requiring a post to be in size 48 font. A post length restriction is possible, but undercuts content more than an RP tell or requiring you to use strikethrough text at some point in your post, or requiring you to quote. In Fabien's case, the point is moot as we had no record for him. I'm honestly unsure if I even think you are Honest. An Elim team with two Honest players seems a bit too strange - you'd know a decent chunk of roles, which can be informationally neat, while being hobbled by the Honest limitation. You could argue this indicates you are more likely to be Village, but the opposite inference is also possible: that if you are not Village, you picked a harmless role to claim. At the same time, if Drake isn't lying, an Elim team with two Cheaters definitely seems way too stacked, considering that a three man team already seems a bit too strong for these. And the truth is, Drake could be a different role, cribbing off TUO's understanding of the Cheater mechanics. The way I see it, both of you have incentive to claim your respective roles because that's prima facie reason to think that you are not in fact Elim. Archer could have derived his understanding from Araris, whereas Drake could have derived his understanding from TUO. But it's a good point, and I should go back and dig through your posts because I recall being a bit confused about your tell. So you aren't standing by your statement that Elim!Drake would have lost in a 1v1? Lotus mentioned it'd be a tie. Why? Hold up a second. You claimed previously that you obtained a Two of Guards off cheating - C1 Cheat action led to collecting a Two of Guards in C2, which you used to protect Archer. Where did this further Two of Guards come from, then? Thanks, but cold comfort to the Village I imagine

While I wait on the results of the rule clarification from our GMs, here's the vote pattern analysis: Voting Patterns: Araris's Tell: While I continue to wait for our esteemable GMs to respond to both Drake's question and my questions asked in the thread, here is my existing analysis of Araris's tell. Because this will change depending on the response to our questions, this should be marked with an asterisk until Lotus or Eiwlil get around to us. Further question for @Lotus / @Illwei actually: Suppose Wyrm is an Honest Voidbringer. He is asked, "Are you a Voidbringer?" Unfortunately, the player misspells it and says 'Voidbinger.' Do you consider it against your rule on the spirit of the question if Wyrm answers that he is a Voidbinger? (Specifically, I want to know if you'd require Wyrm to perform his tell under those circumstances.) In summation, RIP Village, if your fate rests on my player reading skills because that's not my strength >> This game right now, to me: Anyway. This post is my last best effort. I'm open to arguments until rollover, and I'll try to rethink if I have the time. I'm also waiting on Lotus and Illwei to get back, and will adjust my credences accordingly. Until then, I'm with the Singaporean 50 cents coin. Happy birthday Singapore, and Archer. Majulah Singapura. Edited to add: The C3 point doesn't make sense to me. C3 you were away for half of it. You had no way of knowing if there would be a tie so burning your vote manip would be pointless. Araris did in fact burn his Two of Pens to try to force a tie. C2 makes less sense too - vote manip doesn't work in that context.

For no particular reason: @Lotus / @Illwei - I have a further Honest clarification. I asked last cycle about the conditions under which you would consider a player to be lying. Now, I have a hypothetical for you. Suppose Wyrm is Honest. He says that he is "pretty sure there will be double deaths from the vote today." I'd like to check how you would establish this. Suppose further: A. Wyrm actually has a teammate, Gamma. Wyrm knows that Gamma is using the One of Pens, which would cancel out Wyrm's Two of Pens, ensuring only one player is removed. Would you rule that Wyrm is lying and require him to perform his tell? B. Suppose that all of A is true, but Wyrm also thinks that there is a decent chance someone will whip out a vote manip card. Would you rule that Wyrm is lying and require him to perform his tell? C. How would you establish if Wyrm thinks there is a decent chance someone will whip out a vote manip card? Edited to add: D. Suppose that Wyrm knows there is no other vote manipulation that could ensure a tie, and thus double deaths. Otherwise, the same as A. Would you rule that Wyrm is lying and require him to perform his tell? Edited to add 2: Fair warning, currently suffering from insomnia due to a cold, so all you get is incoherent Kas complaints about being tired while reviewing the thread. Edited to add 3: @Lotus/ @Illwei, tagging because I have a further question. Are the Honest tells reliable? That is to say, if a player is lying, they have been required to unfailingly include the tell?

I'll be honest. I'm too tired to think right now but I did in fact flip a coin for whether to vote Drake or Araris D3 as I was fairly torn between two sets of arguments. Yesterday, the coin wanted Archer dead. Today, it still wants Archer dead. My gut says something is wrong with Archer. I think I know what but I also need to refine that nagging sense and think about it more. I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.

Understood. Hmmm. Archer claims to have roleblocked Drake. Drake claims to have blocked the kill. One of you is lying. Archer claims he is Honest and his tell is RP. Which could be true. Drake could be an Elim who pulled his understanding of Cheating from TUO. To me, it seems like the Elim would not fancy their chances on a 1 v 1 if I play the self protect card. If so, we go into a tie and they get exed. The ideal endgame for them would be a Drake — Archer 1 v 1 either way. I'm going to need to do my own backreading. My vote is staying where it is for the moment. Majulah Singapura. Edited to add: Players should be told if they're roleblocked. Archer, you specifically expected Ash to be able to tell you if he noticed being roleblocked. I can also confirm this as I have previously checked with Lotus about whether my card action successfully went through. Edited to add 2: Interested in what your plans are for this round, gentlemen. I'm very tempted to hit One of Guards at this rate >>

@Archer You fell into the same trap I did. Drake is applying his reverse style to his reads. Striker and I are top suspects. You can see this from the fact Drake Elim reads himself. @DrakeMarshall Yeah, I don't need a rule break either, just a direct answer to make sure I am understanding. Were you roleblocked? Y/N. What happened to the card then?

Honestly, for reasons I am not allowed to talk about, which Archer has alluded to, I am very tired of analysis and the idea of relying on the 50 cent coin that doomed Araris is becoming very tempting. I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did because I am tired >> But alright, sigh. Let's do this. Issue for me is voting patterns for Archer are actually a bit worse than yours. Just for me to confirm: you were not roleblocked? (Sorry man it's late and tired. I respect your playstyle and it's fun, but if you can start the sentence with a Yes/No (I know how to read that), I'd appreciate it, help me out a bit here )

The kill can't be roleblocked. It takes up the card action slot, but the fact that neither of you are claiming protection (well, Drake is) indicates that either the kill was blocked by a protect, or not put in.

Can I clarify: do you still have the card? And were you roleblocked? Am I the only player in this game who actually roleblocked xino >> Anyway, it's interesting. Either way you run this, both of you are claiming to not have put in a kill, and I certainly didn't. A roleblock shouldn't have stopped a kill, and Drake claims he was told he was roleblocked, so this is consistent. It's not going to be resolved like a logic puzzle. Clearly I'm going to have to rely on the power of the single Singaporean 50 cents coin I consulted when trying to decide if Araris died or Drake died >>

Sometimes, I analyse because it is my duty and the prospect of rest and it being Not My Problem Anymore gives me great joy I'm interested in your thoughts about Araris's bussing tendencies. You mentioned it last cycle, and that logic would flag you as well, since Araris was trying to draw votes to you. Edited to add: Alas, we are subjected to another turn of Eiwlil's vote counts. Sadge tbh :eyes:

Mrw I discover I'm damned to yet another cycle of squatting: Edit: Sigh. Interesting we're on yet another round. What cards did you play, lads? I'm going to go with Archer for the moment.

Forgot about that - was thinking of Two of Pens but that just gives them two votes, fair point. >> This should be interesting, since that's the same dilemma with you, technically. Edited to add: Works for me. Edited to add 2: @Archer, curious why you still have e!Drake credences. Two Cheaters (admittedly that's his claim) and being the CW point to very likely Village.

How to tell Team Village has dropped the ball tbh Can we disrespect Ash like this though :eyes: Edited to add: Possible to clarify what effect this has on last orders? I'd hate to get hammered by an Elim or something because there's no clear understanding of when the cycle is considered closed.

Smh Eiwlil is this foreigner racism I sense tbh

Ninja-ed by Eiwlil >:( Well yeah I suppose strictly-speaking we should model it like this: Let p1 be the base probability of getting 1 card, and p2 be the base probability of getting 2 cards (we exclude One of Spears cases): Probability of getting a Shardblade = P(Draw One Card and Shardblade) + P(Draw Two Cards and One Shardblade) + P(Draw Two Cards and Shardblades Both Also You Should Buy A Lottery Ticket I guess) =p1 x 1/18 + p2 x 1/18 + p2 x 1/18 x 1/18 Could be worse than the Cheater odds actually. Huh. Does exclude the case where the player starts with a Shardblade, though. This was brought to you by Kas realising you technically can't neglect the base rate Edited to add: Literally Ash this game - "Never tell me the odds."

It's good though, then we can rule out that possibility. I think it's more probable to get a Shardblade (1/18) than it is to get caught twice (1/10 x 1/10) but I did want to formally close it off for my peace of mind

@Lotus or @Illwei I have a question. If a Cheater gets unlucky and does get exed while using their ability... Is it written as being pushed off the table or voted off? I just had a really crack thought.

On mobile so quoting is jank right now. 1. Yeah. Volatility due to unblockable Shardblade kills could be a factor for in determining Elim team composition in a game this small, so agreed. 2. TUO was on at some point. The last I checked was maybe 4 hours after rollover and his status indicated he was last on the Shard 22 hours ago. Possible to put in kill, just wouldn't be able to handle last minute changes. Likely for Ash, yeah. Clutch though Don't forget your orders, guys. @Archer, be nice if you could Two of Pens this