Kasimir
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Everything posted by Kasimir
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FYI I'm not gonna count any votes until the cycle closes. No. Just no. I'm not that kayana. It will only be logged in the spreadsheet after that holy chull what is this volatility.
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RIP, apologies. This is what I get for being absolutely dead locked on two goddamned players and missing out 80% of the game -.- Edited: I made a grim joke in my IM DM that if I were a Dakhor with a two-shot kill I wouldn't shoot Devo and Bort, I'd shoot myself twice >> El is just shaking her head at me but whatever, she's the IM, she signed up to put up with my nonsense (sorry El, ilu too )
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To be clear, the sigh is because apart from Shadow (whose views I am now clear on), have not been able to get a consensus so my hands are rather tied in this area. I will say I have light cause for concern on another doc mate, who would be consistent with Mat in leaning against revealing the members of Malkier. I should probably spend my energy rethinking them instead. Is there a particular reason you are focusing on the Archer train rather than the Thaid train? Do you believe the Thaid train was pure apart from Archer?
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For @Elbereth's sake as she's still cackling in my DMs: Mouse was me. Gorilla was Orlok. Edited to add: Oh yeah, there was Falcon. My one thing: why did you trust a rando Mistborn Lurch claim holy chull why. So I am aware it happens but that does not help me decide whether I am in one or not and doing the one thing or not.
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Slight alarms going off in my head as the paranoid part of me thinks you know Devo's flip and want to try to get a free drive-by ML off it :| Given how hard I've been gunning for Devo, to the point of actively calling for an airstrike on myself or being okay with a lynch on myself if this will convince people to flip Devo on the basis that my Village flip should give people concrete data on what a Village response to Exp looks like, are you still pushing this narrative? Here's the issue. My issue with Bort comes from something he did that he also did in LG12 (Evil), LG83 (Evil), and I've specifically pointed out that he adopted this method of an opening game in LG83 (Evil), not in QF59 (Village), and in MR57 (Evil). Now, where I could be tunnelling is that I read his responses as being fundamentally disingenuous rather than being amused, or whatever tone you and Araris get off him, and I see that same disingenuousness at work in his MR57 C3 defense. Perhaps this is how Bort defends; I genuinely don't know. I keep mentioning I might be tunnelling because if you don't remember, that's what I did in LG15b. I picked that one thing (Creccio wanting discussion but not brokering it) and went ham on the Creccio ML. To be fair, you and STINK joined me, but nevertheless, that happened. In LG12, I nearly did that to Orlok, only the one thing was Orlok wanting to focus on the third party conversion faction, or at least discuss them. In AG7, I focused on - I don't remember what, but I know it was a one thing that got me tunnelling so hard on Orlok I had to take a few stunned moments to process and get a drink to deal with the fact he had credibly claimed to me to be a neutral D2. I know I have gotten better at avoiding that one thing but if you ask me right now if I can swear to Adonalsium that I am not in fact doing the one thing again, then no, I'm not that confident. In light of that, while I rationally accept I could be frustrated and locked into a tunnel, and I respect that you and Araris have tonal reads on him, I disagree strongly. The fact that I'm this set on Evil Bort to the point of not asking whether Mat's willingness to vote Bort (if Mat is Evil) is indicative likely points to the fact I'm so damned frustrated I'm just no longer able to think rationally on this issue. I accept there's no appetite for this push; I will reserve the storming right to yell "I told you so goddamnit" if I'm right because otherwise there's no point in being right. I low key hope to get NKed before you because then at least I can throw up my hands in the dead doc without having to deal with any of this or think about it for the rest of the game. I'm not doing a grouping. I'm sorry but also not actually sorry - my headspace is currently very colonised and I don't feel like doing one. I also don't really think I can evaluate the odds of Mat being an Elim by the opposite stance of Archer because that's not how my grouping system works. I don't look for these things specifically - I generate the groupings then look for anomalies. It's fine bro. I'm just done, but I have every faith in the Village that everyone else can carry on, do the analysis, and we'll be fine without me <3 Sigh.
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At this juncture, would all of you feel psychologically reassured if I proactively clarified there are still Elims in the game and I haven't actually made a mistake and left the game to run without thinking? Edited to add: Specifically, that there is at least one Elim still in the game, existing.
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I can assure you, hand on heart, that not only am I not entertained, but the cries of suffering players in GM PMs has made me: A. Regret running this game B. Regret my inability to do more for them C. Regret my life decisions and choices D. Just regret I'm not that much of a sadist, sir >>
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And I do the one thing I should never do which is return to the Shard while still angry and suggest this: I'm happy to do this. We lynch me tomorrow, or the Dakhor shoots me tonight. When I flip Village, then I want at least one player to at least entertain the thought that your response is an anomaly that doesn't make sense. I want at least one player to entertain the thought that the set up was fundamentally flawed from the goddamn get go and at least one player to consider the possibility that the analysis posted on it is off. I am happy to open up voting on myself if that is what it takes. Just consider an E!Devo world. Just consider an E!Bort world. Literally so much of my EoD has been about this. If dying is what it takes for my goddamned voice to be heard even a little, so be it. A small price to pay for my salvation.
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For a reason I can't talk about, regular GMing services will be suspended for the next two hours. I'm not going to be reachable on 17S for any rule clarifications, though I think you guys shouldn't require anything that urgent in that period. If there is something that absolutely requires my immediate attention, please DM me on Discord. Thank you.
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Would that I could feel this way, but I'm aggravated enough by that last post I'm going to step out and talk to El. Since El has told me I was being unclear: I'm done. You all do whatever the chulls you want to. I'm tapping out for the night because I am going to keep on getting triggered by what seems to be intensely obvious but no one else believes it or wants to engage with it. I'm done getting repeatedly ignored, which maybe isn't fair to my doc mates or to the thread since Archer was the big deal in the end of cycle, but whatever. I'm fine being wrong, I'm fine with having tunnelled, I am absolutely not okay with being told there are three lights when it is as clear to me as the hand before my face right now that there are four. I'll be back in the Day to help out if I want to, or not if I don't want to. I wanted a nice, quiet, chill RPful game, so I guess I should just make sure I get it.
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It's true - I basically took the standard win con, I'm afraid. Further comments on that after the game. Bro, your vote is not showing, can you relog this for my benefit please? Edited to add: Okay, nevermind @Amanuensis I see it now, you're good.
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My point is that simply put, to condense everything I have said in late D1 in this game and would like even one goddamn player to please bloody read it and tell me if I'm trippin' because I'm this freakin' done being ignored yelling about my suspicions goddamnit! into a single sentence: it was a tainted set up, and you're overselling it's utility and looking the wrong way at the analysis. Or I might be tunneling...nice Vietcong grade tunnel here, of the sort I unleashed on Orlok in AG7. Anyway, commented on Baker in my doc, so: Possibly, but there's a very interesting vote movement from Baker that I logged in my Empire doc because it's apparently become my raw thought dumping ground despite the lack of engagement there. Check out the state of the votes: And then, Devo votes for Exp, creating a four-way tie: Splinter train tactics or dilution? I don’t have an assessment I feel confident about just yet. Could be Devo just trying to project V!Devo, whether from pure motives, or Evil motives. But then two minutes after Devo does that: The Baker breaks the tie by going onto Thaid. Why? It’s very close to Devo’s movement, and I think if they were E/E, no need for Devo to go splinter-train or dilution if Baker was going onto Thaid anyway. Probably also not at the point in the cycle where they'd feel pressure to do it. Lack of baseline from Baker doesn't help.
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Thing is, if I'm Evil, am I lying about my assumption in a way that would make me seem more Village? Because just to be clear, QF59 Evil Kas absolutely bussed Striker last minute and then cooked up an audacious lie about having planned to do that all along. It's absolutely within me to lie about that, at the very least, though I feel I don't get much credit for it either way...eh, whatever, only so many self-paranoia rabbit holes I can do tonight. So it fundamentally doesn't really help, which is the point I'm really making and am aware of, because you only have my word for it. Anyway, my relative lack of attention to the votes beyond 'kill Archer pls' is signalled by the fact I've just realised I'm asking in my Empire doc why Archer didn't self-pres on Devo (how embarrassing...) because in retrospect, that doesn't really work once my vote went off Devo, making the Thaid train the only viable CW, though that was very last minute. Me: Here's a list of reasons why this was poorly done, and Exp's analysis of this doesn't make sense. Exp: Nothing happened here.
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If it helps any (which it doesn't), I wasn't paying attention to the votes beyond Ash's count here. Was aware that Devo's vote pushed the Archer train up top but felt that the potential presence of a Forger and potential self-pres from Archer meant I should make a serious decision about whether I preferred to kill Devo or Archer. Eventually I just settled on Archer (shout out to Shadow here, even if she might be Evil!) and just YOLO voted. Bro. I need help. The tunnel is too dark and too deep because part of me is low key willing to buy this, and part of me just really wants to pressure Bort because my reasons have not changed with regard to Bort :|
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Noted, thanks for the context! In that case - I'm okay with a provisional light Village read on her but will keep in mind as long as I'm alive that I should be revising that read. Wary respect from me, but as you said, that's the curse of good play No? LG83 had no Elim D1. As far as I can recall, QF59 was the first, then MR57, then this one. Unless there's a game I'm forgetting about. Agreed. Mid-cycle ties are okay, but end-cycle just allows them free kills. If they do have a Forger, I assume the Forger didn't decide to play their hand today, because Archer could have been saved with one, IMO. That point ironically pushes me a bit off Devo, yeah. I'm still wary of Bort, but given Archer's non-reaction to Exp, I am more inclined to suspect non-reaction here. But I should probably relook at the whole situation. My views on Devo's response being an anomaly still stand, but I'm just glad I looked past getting tilted by it and onto everything else. What I will say is this: Evil being aware something is bait definitely doesn't change the fact their reactions are off. You were the prime example in Meerkat - you knew it was bait, and you therefore deliberately voted for Meerkat without hesitation or question. That knowledge and your alignment TMI produced that result, but it didn't change the fact that it was inherently suspicious that a player of your calibre would unquestioningly vote Meerkat without asking anything at all about the impossible circumstances of the gambit. (Again, acknowledge Orlok did that too, but Orlok had the advantage of having more or less earned Meerkat's trust from a couple of PMs And Orlok's PM behaviour regarding that Meerkat gambit was still less suspicious on the whole as compared to your complete disinterest.) The short of it is that I feel if there were Evil responses, our projections might be off, but I expect them to still be anomalies. That's partly why despite thinking the test was so tainted, I have been :| about Devo's response in particular. Again, accept it may be a tunnel. That's why I talked it out with Shadow, and hope to get more inputs. I'm a pure vote analyst bro, you know this :/ So I dislike it, and I feel that I dislike how close it comes to Archer's self-pres, wondering if there's any coordination there since they both went on the same train and it takes Devo out of contention. Mat switching to Thaid suddenly in a naked vote doesn't make me any happier though :|
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See you in the dead doc, Village bro The issue for me with Shadow bus is she didn't just vote on Archer, she did talk my thoughts through with me and was the last straw that convinced me to shift to Archer. That, and Archer trying to sus you and Exp and theorising a you-Exp team which I just didn't see at that point. Sure, maybe Shadow puts a vote of her own, but that itself wouldn't kill Archer. I am willing to accept she might have pocketed me because the in doc mindmeld early on honestly has me screaming in internal fear/paranoia, but at the same time - does E!Shadow not just present the third vote on Archer but also talk me onto Archer? Her view was that Devo's vote is ? but the Archer train was good. I eventually agreed after thinking things through doc wall screaming about having under an hour to decide who I distrusted more.
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Would be surprising to me if Shadow did, FWIW. Leave that to your read as you have prior play history with her which I lacked but since she returned, I was going through my thoughts on Archer v Devo in the Empire doc, and she was the factor that tipped me into just gunning for Archer.
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Oh no :joy: Uh, what happens now?
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Striker I know we can't vote at night, but I'm making my current stance very clear :eyes:
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It pains me to say this, but neither has Orlok, if you're tracking. Unless I missed something. I'm interested in how you get this conclusion. Increasing my V!Aman credences here. Also, thank the gods I sat down and thought it through... holy chull like sure, Devo/Archer could be E/E still I guess (? - Don't know if I'd put high probability on that) but holy chull that feels so close o_O Instant sus on Striker for that late vote on Thaid, coming so quickly after Archer's seeming self-pres.
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I'm worried that whether I go for Devo or Archer, it's a 'wth' vote either way. I still think Devo's vote is an anomaly, and one I can't make sense of except from a rigid E!Devo case, given the poor set-up of Exp's bait, and the tainted state of the meta. I can't for the life of me see how V!Devo doesn't smell something odd when I did, and Mat did, and when Exp was radiating FAFO energy. Ultimately, I think if it comes down to it, the one thing that might convince me to go for Archer is this one point: I understand nulling Thaid, because that's kind of my reaction. I note that there is a difference, but I don't know if this is motivated by being Evil (he fits the player profile for someone who might do that as a first time Elim) or complaints about Thaid's play, which I have received as the GM of MR57, though I don't know if those complaints were forwarded to the IM, nor if the IM spoke to Thaid on it. Anyway, point is that it is plausible to me that this could be either, so I'm not sure I'm sold that this itself is a problem. The doc issue and Exp's confirmation of the interaction is more worrisome for me because as a player who likes bait and Grand Plans and who did in fact set Thaid out as bait, why is Archer sussing Aman for doing exactly the same thing? I would think this should lead to Archer being more willing to understand Aman's position here, rather than sussing Aman for it, since that's exactly what Archer claims to be doing too. There's a playstyle overlap here. I don't see why this is leading to grounds for suspicion, and that doesn't make sense to me. You know what? Archer without hesitation. This is the best I can do, right here and right now. Lesgo.
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So...I have that much time to decide if I'm tunnelling on Devo or not? >> Edited to add: @Ashbringer, @Elbereth, can I get a post here so I can longpost and vote without doubleposting and making you grumpy?
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I'm really more concerned about Wyrm and Orlok here - all I had to do after the AI murdered me within millimetres of my life was to (literally) hide behind Wyrm and send out raiding warbands of Huzsars to ML as many Villagers as I could to help my bros out and screw the AI's economy over Anyway I have slept on it and have returned to the thread with a fresher mind I feel that if you're 100% sold on E!Archer (or E anyone, let's be honest) without a scan from a confirmed Good Seeker, you're doing this game wrong, especially D1. Which may be a point that is a bit too nitpicky, but it ties in with what I'm going to say to Mat later, and is just a statement of my philosophy towards this game - and Wilson's. (I don't think it's anything but a choice of phrase here, I just mention it because it's on my mind thanks to what I will say to Mat in a bit.) When I say V!Archer says/does weird things at times, the incidents I have in mind are V!Archer tunnelling on me because I got triggered by Striker being taken to be me in LG79 (which was a AN.) I'll be fair and say that this has issues to do with the fact I worry players who do impersonate me end up abusing or leaning unduly hard on the relationships I have built with other players over years. But that's a side-issue. Point is that V!Archer in that game started tunnelling harder on me because I was insisting I was Kas! Which really should not be particularly alignment-linked. Meanwhile, in AG8, he also noted in the dead doc that he'd be triggered by me insisting I was kel and sus me for it. So I don't know if throwing that out isn't necessarily just Archer Archering. That itself I don't take as a point against Archer. ...Is this gonna be a longpost. Dear God it's gonna be a longpost isn't it. Quiet, chill, RPful game when >> I'll be honest that I feel it's misplaced respect, as I feel that I can't Evil for nuts, but at the same time, I think residual wariness or willingness to revise is the most healthy attitude for a good Villager, so I'm in the odd position where I approve but am also :| about the description With regard to Devo/Bort, I am planning to just lay my thoughts out in the thread because I'm more concerned with wanting to get people's takes. Would still appreciate if you're able to give me some of your thoughts. My take right now is that it's frustrating that I'm not getting the discussion that I was hoping for in my doc, and to rehash briefly, I've always treated PMs as the place to refine your raw thought processes and to take out the obvious non-starters and bad logic, and to incorporate new perspectives before feeding your thoughts to the thread in a more refined state, for discussion. I'm going to say frankly right now that after hours of empty rambling into my Empire doc and getting ignored, I no longer trust myself on Devo and Bort and yet find myself unable to move on from them. My hopes of dumping this in the thread are not to push a train at this point but to get some sanity check. I am no longer able to tell if I'm tunnelling, or doing the Kas thing where I get tilted by someone's argumentative move (cf. Orlok in LG12, Creccio in LG15b) and go ham on them and refuse to stop until they are dead. As I have said in past games, I am better at controlling it these days, but it does happen. If Devo is really Village and I'm tunnelling hard, this is most relevant to me as I believe she's a lead train and my vote is currently on her. Again - I agree with that attitude, ThreadPMBro And if I am Evil, do know that I will welcome my lynch as a release from suffering, so you won't need to feel any guilt whatsoever about going hard on me should you eventually decide you think I'm Evil! And if you are Evil... Know that I'm coming for you, ThreadPMBro, as straight as an arrow >> Well, I mean I have to actually figure out that you're Evil first but Know that I will set you free of your suffering. Bros don't let bros suffer. Thanks, Exp! I appreciate your confirming this chain of events. In light of: What are your views on Archer now? What motivates this shift? As I've said in my doc during a very long paragraph ranting on the Araris-Bort clash, a good Villager should always be revising your credences in accordance with incoming evidence. This is my fundamental SE philosophy and I will stand by this and die by this. If I am prone to over-revision, as I am aware of, so be it. It should be a given that you are prepared to revise your beliefs! Otherwise, Beagles bite your face off >> (Orlok, don't @ me about normative/descriptive. I get it.) Kas Thoughts, Just Kind of Thrown Here: The Aman-Archer clash is worth a separate long(?)post in and of itself. I'm going to cut this one short and will get back to it the moment someone else posts.
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MR56 C3 Kas approves. Summon Orlok! is an interesting tactic when Aman is concerned but it's my favourite! I just don't trust myself ;-; Brooooooooooo The hell you smoking, my bro???? >:( Edited to add: You have slightly over twenty-three and a half hours left in this cycle!
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I mean, we are at 20 pages. Cannot confirm nor deny how much of that is due to me repeatedly asking the same questions. Sorry for the late reply, just got back off a two hour AoE2 session with Orlok and Wyrm, with Wyrm hardcarrying. (Sorry guys .___. ) My brain is officially dead from the stress. Either would seem possible; or alternative he could be trying to connect me and Shadow and suggest that I must have that info from elsewhere. But IDK as it's not a very strong E shade - the simplest explanation would be that she's in my Empire. I am aware that V!Archer sometimes asks weird things. That is to say, right now, I don't know either. My immediate thoughts: I would like @Experience, as the other publicly known member of your Empire, to talk about his take on your in doc events. Like...I don't think you'd lie about it that obviously and I have light reason (potentially bordering on gut) to think you're Village (I said as much in my doc) on the basis of OOG conversations we've had about our playstyles going forwards. But all the same, I think that your take carries with it a certain perspective, and I'd like a cross-check. To me, the statement doing the heavy lifting is Archer's in doc behaviour, because that to me is more or less the one point that concerns me the most: Anything else needs me to take a nap first. That game was a two hour intense slogfest, Orlok nearly died, I nearly died, and I can't make an evaluation at this point but will do so when I get back. Honestly I'm still too tilted by Devo and Bort to make sense of Archer right now and I think I'm tunnelling (and have asked my doc if I'm tunnelling.) I need to take a break and then re-engage. I'm aware of Exp's argument that her reaction is too pure, I just really don't buy it and I don't know if I'm just tilted and tunnelling, or... Edited to add: @Amanuensis- To be clear, it's defeasible reason. I know better than to be too confident in my ability to read you, and I think that E!Aman would know we had those conversations, and deliberately skew his approach to not be immediately detectable. I've made this caveat in my Empire doc as well. But I'm fine with being wrong about you as long as I revise, and for the moment, I'm cool with my knowledge of your playstyle thoughts/desires as weak evidential basis for V!Aman.
