Kasimir

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Aftermath: A Desolation Called Peace NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES. NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES. BLOOD FEEDS BLOOD. BLOOD CALLS BLOOD. BLOOD IS, AND BLOOD WAS, AND BLOOD SHALL EVER BE. NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES. —words written in blood on the walls of an inn in the abandoned village of Helgen Locke led, and Wyden followed. It felt good. It felt good to be doing something again, as though he was pushing back, however weakly, against years of forcing himself to keep breathing, years of keeping himself alive, years of guilt at how he’d broken, how he’d survived when the garrison died, when the Trollocs put entire villages to the sword. It felt a little like redemption. If there was even such a thing, for one such as he. Locke ran, and Wyden ran after him, willing both of them to be just a little faster, praying to the Light that they would make it in time, before Lin Mindrigurin did anything, before the mayor did anything to the survivors. They had not acted overtly so far, Wyden thought. His scars itched. Surely this would continue? There was a shadow in the street. Locke drew to a halt. Blood dripping from his sword, still screaming, Edler attacked. More from instinct than anything, Wyden’s sword slipped free from its sheath in Unfolding the Fan, and Reaping the Barley beat aside the onrushing Stones Falling from the Cliff. “Edler!” Wyden shouted. But the Warder had gone battle-mad, and Wyden saw no recognition in his eyes, only a grim focus. Parting the Silk nearly tore into Wyden’s side, and Water Flows Downhill split open his cheek in a welter of blood. Dimly, he remembered Gaidin’s lessons at the garrison. A Warder who lost their Aes Sedai could go battle-mad, Gaidin explained, curtly. Distantly. They lashed out in an attempt to avenge their Aes Sedai. The saner ones knew friend from foe; simply sought to take down as many enemies as they could. Some of them lost the will to live, and became shadows of themselves and eventually wasted away and died. Edler had gone battle-mad. It wasn’t just Warders who broke, Wyden thought. Sometimes, men on the Blightborder did. Sometimes, the world did terrible things to you, or the Shadow did. Sometimes, you broke, and then you could never quite put yourself together again. He met Wind and Rain with the Oak Shakes Its Branches. He didn’t want to hurt Edler. He liked Edler. But Edler was doing his best to kill him, and possibly to kill Locke as well. “Go!” Wyden shouted. “Will you be alright?” Locke asked, and then seemed to realise the folly of his question. “I’ll stop him. Light shelter you, Wyden.” As Locke ran, Wyden turned aside Lightning of Three Prongs with Lizard in the Thornbush. He narrowed his eyes. “Edler,” he tried again. “I don’t want to hurt you.” He threw himself back in time, as Plucking the Low-Hanging Apple grazed his throat, and drew blood. Thank the Light it hadn’t been worse. He saw bodies on the street. Ordinary people, villagers he’d known. Bodies strewn about like fallen leaves. Wyden closed his eyes and sought the flame and the void. But the oneness lay just frustratingly out of his reach. “Apologies,” gasped Locke, as he closed the door of the meeting room behind him. He paused a moment to catch his breath. “I was held up.” Mayor Wilsa glanced at him. “Where were you?” “Gathering evidence,” Locke said. “Asking questions.” He glanced at everyone in the room: Lin Mindrigurin, sitting comfortably in his chair, sword balanced across his knees, Rambler who was glaring daggers at Jóhannsson, and Jóhannsson, who was scowling at Lin. Three people left, thought Locke. He had been so very nearly disastrously late. “Lin’s of the Shadow,” Jóhannsson stated, flatly. “Locke, you have to see this. You were missing for so long, I was looking for you—” “Sorry I’m late,” Locke said. “Really, truly wish I’d been around.” He set his ledger down on the table. “Lin Mindrigurin,” he said. “You hid well. But I know you for what you are, Darkfriend.” Edler and Wyden clashed. Wyden retreated, gave ground. He did not want to do this. He did not want to fight. He did not want to kill Edler. The Warder had been kind to him, when Wyden needed it. Surely that was reason enough for mercy. But Edler kept on pressuring him, flowing from form to form with a lethal grace that Wyden recognised in some of the best swordsmen. He’d only ever wanted a way to be good again, Wyden thought. He’d spent so much of his life running, fleeing what the Shadow had done to him. For some reason, it felt good to be taking a stand, even if that meant fighting Edler here and now. Even if that meant stopping Edler. The streets of Helgen were eerily empty, soaked in blood, and the fog was creeping in again, lending everything an air of unreality. It had been years since he’d picked up the sword, and he was rusty but the muscle memory never truly faded, and the practice bout with Edler that day had helped, if only a little. Still, it was all Wyden could do to keep Edler from killing him. “Edler,” he tried again. He knew what it was like to be on the brink, to have lost everything that mattered, for the Light to have fled from the world. He knew what it was like to be damned. “Edler, snap out of it, man!” Black Pebbles on Snow, angled differently, nearly took out his eye. Blood gushed from the cut above his eye, and Wyden swore, backing off. It was going to be hard, fighting Edler with that obscuring his vision. He only hoped that he’d bought Locke the time he needed. Rambler, Locke, and Jóhannsson. Perhaps they could take Lin or Mayor Wilsa by surprise. He wasn’t sure. And that meant they needed him. “I’m sorry,” Wyden whispered. He didn’t know who he was apologising to. Perhaps it was Edler. Perhaps it was to the bodies in the streets. Perhaps it was to the garrison, or the villages the Trollocs had put to the sword; had massacred and then set ablaze. “I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.” He was weeping, even as he fended off Cat on Hot Sand with The Falling Leaf. Edler, in his own way, had given Wyden back his own soul again. But Helgen was Wyden’s home now, and if he weighed Edler against Helgen, it wasn’t even a damned contest at all. Perhaps the man Wyden had once been could have stopped Edler easily. He doubted it. Edler was a good swordsman, and there was always a risk when you weren’t trying to kill the other man, even as he tried very hard to kill you. Light forgive him. The numbness swept back in. It wasn’t the oneness, but it would have to be good enough. Wyden let it. He let it wash over him. The numbness, perhaps, was the way the soul defended itself. The way you dealt with the fact that terrible, terrible things had been done to you, and the fact that you had gone on to do the unforgivable. The way you dealt with the fact that somehow, mysteriously, inexplicably, you had been left to keep breathing. Those years in Helgen, Wyden had lost the oneness, had lost the flame and the void. Had lost the single-minded focus and dedication that was crucial, that elevated the best swordsmen into blademasters. Before the numbness, before that old friend, even that faded away, paled into insignificance. There was only Edler, and what Wyden had to do. Wyden glided forward. Wyden attacked. “Lin,” Rambler scowled. “Don’t know how you talked me into damning Lorum. This ends here.” “I’ve told you,” Jóhannsson snapped. “He’s been trying to turn us on each other all along. That is how he works.” “Jóhannsson is unfortunately correct,” said Locke. “That is how Lin has been operating. I’ve traced his associates, and been asking questions about his movements over the past days.” He frowned. “It wasn’t particularly easy. But a pattern emerged. Just as anyone begins to ask questions about Lin, they disappear. Or he turns them into his allies and has them accuse others for him.” Rambler flushed. “I dug in the meeting records,” continued Locke. “And I found a very curious slip from Lin. He suggested that he’d found Buffy suspicious.” “Buffy was suspicious,” Jóhannsson said. “Yes,” Locke nodded. “Or so you went on record as saying. But—Lin said previously that he believes those instrumental in discovering Stern were of the Light. He also believed that you were no Darkfriend.” “Can a man not change his views, Locke?” Lin drawled. “Perhaps,” Locke said. “But your views change so suddenly, Lin Mindrigurin. One might wonder if they were sincerely held—or adopted whenever convenient, in order to shift opinion the way you wanted it shifted.” The numbness enfolded him. He was only a shadow of what he’d once been. It would have to be good enough. Wyden advanced. Every form was a step, an attempt to reach Edler, an attempt to end the fight. The longer things dragged out, the more he feared for Locke, Rambler, and Jóhannsson. The Grapevine Twines met Dandelion in the Wind. Two Hares Leaping met the Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose. Tower of Morning flowed into Single Stone Standing, and parried The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback. He was a shadow of what he’d once been, and Edler made him pay for it in blood as Wyden advanced. But floating in the numbness, it did not matter. Wyden did not fear death. He’d died a long time ago. Kissing the Adder rammed into his side; Wyden twisted just slightly but the sword slid home, and something tore. Falling Embers scythed through Edler, and Wyden felt the resistance as sword met flesh and parted it without stopping. Edler fell, blood gushing from the large slash that Wyden’s blade had rent open. Wyden held on the numbness. The wound was not too bad, he thought. He could still function. There was pain, from where the sword had torn free. It did not matter. He was numb, now. “I’m sorry,” he said aloud, once more. He flicked the blood from his sword, and knelt down to close Edler’s staring eyes. He could hurt, once he was done. “The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.” But he still had one last fight to face. And perhaps then, he would have peace. Rambler stood up, drawing his knife. “Enough,” he spat. “He’s a Darkfriend. He mocks us with his presence. We should take him, now.” “I’m not the one you should be worried about, Rambler,” Lin Mindrigurin said, calmly. Sword still balanced on his knee, still smiling serenely. As though he was too damnably clever. As though he knew something that Rambler did not. “What do you mean?” Rambler demanded, warily. There was a gurgle. Rambler turned. Jóhannsson toppled to the ground like a sack of grain at the harvest, blood pouring from his throat. Locke stood there, a dagger gleaming wet with blood in his hand. “A Darkfriend?” Locke asked. “I think you’ve misplaced one in your count.” “Why?” Rambler wanted to know. He glanced about him, searching for a way out. Lin’s sword flashed free of its scabbard, and then he was on his knees, blood spilling out from his stomach. Locke shrugged. “Because the Great Lord demanded it,” he said. As though it was reason enough. “Light damn you,” Rambler spat. “Light damn you all, I trusted you, Light…Light…” But there was no Light here in Helgen, not now, not in this room. Instead, there was only Shadow. Kaim was there. Wyden staggered through the streets. He was losing blood at an alarming rate. And he was so very tired. Kaim regarded him, frowning. The fog, as it had on that first meeting, seemed to curl about him, seemed to embrace him. Kaim was wrong. Always had been. Maybe Wyden was wrong too. Maybe… He realised he was on the ground, bloodied fingers reaching out. “Why?” Wyden asked. It seemed to take a great effort. “Because the past never escapes us,” Kaim said, hunkering down. His eyes met Wyden’s. “Because no matter how you run, the wrongs you do…you have to pay up one day, to balance the scales.” “Did…Did I?” Was it enough, Wyden wanted to ask. Did I do enough? Would he ever be clean? “I think,” Kaim said, not unkindly, “All you have to do is want the Light, Wyden. And even if you can’t see the Light, all you have to do is to remember it was there, and that it will be there again one day.” “Can’t…remember…” “I told you I was here hunting a fugitive,” Kaim said. “Someone who had deserted, and betrayed an entire garrison.” Wyden managed a nod. “Go in peace, Wyden,” Kaim said. “As far as I’m concerned, that man is not the man before me right now.” He wanted that to be true. Wanted that so badly. He was in his room in the Tree again, looking out of the window, the morning sunlight on his face. He opened the shutters, and leaned out, reaching for it. Wanting it. The Light was there, then, and it was always and ever only Light. TJ/Jóhannsson was executed! He was a Village Elder! Matrim's Dice/Rambler was killed! He was a Villager! The Darkfriends have won! Congratulations to @Araris Valerian, @Bort, @Amanuensis, and @Orlok Tsubodai! (Araris seems to have insane luck with RNGesus, FYI. The Sacred Coin went his way without me needing to do a second cointoss for the 1v1.) All write-ups have been posted/edited in. I now may die in peace. Praise the Light. Docs, mastersheet, and player list to follow in second post. Please do not post until I have reserved it. Thank you.

Can confirm. I am in a hell of my own making. One and a half write-ups done. One and a half more to go. Then I can find out what just happened and what's going on here. And then I can catch up. And then I will have peace. Praise the Light.

Sir, the cycle has been closed. Go back and sit in your Evil doc with your bro and reflect on your actions >:(

...........Someone just @ me if you badly need me to move my vote and have good reason to do it. I have three write-ups owed and a rollover to manage and I just don't have the bandwidth to look at this EoC until done >>

Are you proposing a swing to Bort? Edited to add: For Striker, would that be his vote, or his current play? More bearish on Tani at the moment as this is consistent with her playstyle - but I accept I could be overly-blinded by that knowledge.

[The cycle has ended. As a heads-up, the Aftermath will take longer, owing to the insane number of coins I have to flip, and the three write-ups I owe. Please relax and in the meanwhile, know that I am very proud of all of you.] NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES. NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES. BLOOD FEEDS BLOOD. BLOOD CALLS BLOOD. BLOOD IS, AND BLOOD WAS, AND BLOOD SHALL EVER BE. NOW THE GREAT LORD COMES.

Two? But...but I only...But...LG20 was in 2016 bro, that doesn't count...

Sir, #1. I know your Evil doctrine. #2. I will clear you as I damned well please and live with the consequences Cold shower, you say? :thinking:

Now you've done it. Striker's going to have to lurk at EoD to ensure no one tries to break the tie!

I would agree with this; just a bit 'why' that this is even happening in the first place For now >>

This is the part where you need to remember that Illwei and Aman are promiscuous unlike us one-forum bois and understand that they will do their best to import their MU terminology here and get us using it :eyes: I suggest we maintain linguistic hegemony :eyes: But the point stands, my joke aside. You're talking past each other.

This is one of the reasons I didn't go gung-ho on Devo. Because she did make that Mat catch. Felt like a moot point to me, since my immediate determination was to have enough padding in the immediate hours to rollover to avoid ties (I still like mid-cycle ties as they're great decision points) and I will side-eye anyone who last minute ties and MLs Villagers, even if that person is Striker who infamously has a mania for ties. I don't really give a damn if you love ties or if you think it's a great strategy if you end up actively hurting the Village that way, I am going for you. If it's discussed, sure, maybe. Since we'd pretty much see the Elims having to take a hand in that discussion, which means that contact will leave a trace. Or to put it another way: if I'm a Coinshot and I see that you are hurting the Village, I'm filing reckless endangerment charges against you and shooting you without giving a damn either. (This is where everyone reminds me Coinshots only exist in Tyrian, and the Dakhor gets one shot and that's it.) But I play more conservatively where risk is concerned than Orlok, so that's more or less where I'm at. Current state of my thoughts: Devo: Not sure I see her Village tell; have seen it in operation both in MR42 and QF59, has been absent in a few of her Evil games. (-) Counterpoint: Devo spent QF59 doing RP in order to throw some sand on her Elim tell where she's more invested in RP. I don't believe or expect Devo to not make some attempt to mask that tell, even if I am surprised it has lasted that long. Rejoinder: It's a Village tell though. Feels like masking would be E!Devo learning to produce it? Reaction was anomalous; not sure I buy Devo's response on that being necessary to elicit Village or revealing reactions from others. (-) Counterpoint: An anomaly doesn't mean Evil. Illwei and TJ had an anomalous response to Meerkat, but that didn't entail they were Evil. There is often a spread of responses, so this could be an insufficient data problem - perhaps with more data points, this would be another Village response type. Rejoinder: What know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean. We can't do anything about the lack of further data, but the issue does remain that I find it odd that the set-up reeked of bait and gave me pause but not Devo. And that response is so textbook I almost find it implausible given the implausibility of the set-up itself. Voted on Archer though, even in self-pres. (+) Counterpoint: If Devo has a role that's valuable to her team, E!Devo would likely need to self-pres on Archer anyway. (Or was Thaid a live option? Surely E!Devo would know that she could go on Thaid? Unless Devo was not expecting the Mat vote...which brings me back to the not E/E problem.) Still like that Mat point. (+) Archer potentially shielding her by suggesting the Elim responses were compromised via foreknowledge. (-/+) Counterpoint: I don't know though. I feel that sort of compromise is more likely to result in Devo immediately voting Exp to generate the textbook response. Which could mean that Archer was setting Devo up for a ML. Which is the point at which my brain just wants to identify the best place to collapse the superposition and then LAFO. Mat: More disengaged from the game than I've seen him - not interested in making pushes, only in defending players (-) Counterpoint: E!Mat doesn't play like that either, though. And he's explained he's short on time IRL. Rejoinder: I still find it odd. Strange time to develop a conscience about voting, while he did put in the effort to defend or at least do some amount of re-reading. Dgaf about voting - feels like E!Mat could have easily just dropped a few suspicions and a vote in order to try to placate (+) Counterpoint: Didn't want to seem too eager-to-please? IDK, doesn't feel right. Sudden late Thaid switch (-) Specificity of bait response - claiming that it was developed in the Teo doc. (-) Counterpoint: Given that Elim TMI was on his mind - odd/ironic slip to make? Rejoinder: Odd/ironic but slips happen anyway. Just ask LG20!Kas... Feels like he's trying to set me up for a ML if V!Devo dies if V!Devo (?!) Counterpoint: Kas, Gamma would be proud of your paranoia... Agree that Mat and Devo don't seem E/E which is why I'm being thrown quite a bit by having to decide which of them is more likely to be Evil. My gut currently prefers Mat to Devo, which is wild given how badly I wanted Devo to die last Turn. I'm sure I won't hold my breath about whether I'd change my mind again. As T.S. Eliot says: So how should I presume?

This is one sentiment I'm echoing. The trap I fell to in LG83 was getting concerned and proactively stepping forward to drive Village discussion when I really wanted a quiet, RPful chill game. If I don't learn to say no to those feelings or to any sense of obligation to the Village in a game when I get to chill and banter and talk AoE2 with Orlok and Shadow and hang out in the F.R.I.E.N.D.S doc (I may have redecorated it extensively...) with memes, song parodies, and some light solving—when will I? Then I get what I did which was a damned year and four months of Village anchor even when I don't want to be doing that. When I opened the doc to discover I was with Shadow, Orlok, and TJ, it felt like a sign from the SE gods. Chill, some solving/discussion/as much as I feel like doing, and keep my bros happy, healthy, and sane. You count too, ThreadPMBro, even if you have a bad choice of empire F.R.I.E.N.D.S clearly superior

Not even for the fun of both of us going head to head in a threadbrawl? :eyes: I admit it's more paranoia than anything - but as I said, I'm really being badly thrown off, and would probably ask after the game or after one of us is dead Not sweating it; more confused than anything but determined to stick to my plan of chilling with my bros Tbh, I'm not sure that's true. Given the current meta, I think it's quite likely players would try not to N1 V!Aman (sorry >>) from the desire to give you some time to enjoy the game, which has less to do with the amount of scaring you're doing. I think it's a good/healthy meta shift, but RIP Exp :/ (Though huh. That's interesting, seeing as I've been used to seeing N1 low info kills from Team Evil. Someone's switching up...)

Let's clarify this one because I know we both had a conversation about it in private after the BT, but: For the past year, I've been unthinkingly adopting what seems to have become an informal (if widespread) policy - if you edit votes in, please @ the GM so they know. I notice the rules prefer a double post to editing in votes, even with the @. Both for this game and going forwards, is it possible to secure some sense of what to do? Thanks

Hey JNV - to be clear, the confusion in our Empire doc actually looks good for TJ, in my view, not the other way around. It's the Thaid vote I've been side-eying him for. And thanks for doing that reads list, I enjoy your bullet formatting! Edited to add: Tbh that's me @ TJ and Orlok this game too. I'm committed to make sure my bros are having fun, and sometimes my bros give me kas for concern. We really need to talk about this after the game, or when one of us is dead, because boy is your reaction throwing me hard. I'm in the position now where I'm really wondering if you're Evil and I'm a convenient set-up for eventually, or if for some reason, I've given you more cause for paranoia than Shadow has, which is deeply confusing to me and my worldview Seriously, have thought I've been pretty good about telegraphing my alignment this time, but what do I know I'm aware we both work with emotion but unlike you and Shadow, I can't method act - I stick more with choosing to show things or concealing them.

Theoretically it's this, just with myself and Aman on Devo. Whom I'm now unvoting because looking at the thread, want to put pressure here. May go back to Devo later. @Matrim's Dice — I feel like when I look at the thread, you're being really passive. It's rich coming from me but: Mat, who do you suspect most right now? You've been noncommittal and more focused on defending players this Turn.

If he's Evil, I have a sacred duty to execute him swiftly. Bros don't let bros suffer being Evil. If he's Village though :sob: I'm legit at the point where I will/have happily throw(n) out all my TJ thoughts into the thread for discussion/insight but I can't bear to vote him out :sob: Sorry Devo I'm not saying I don't like you or I like you less than I like TJ You're awesome and best IM I just My heart has irrationally attached itself to the idea of chilling with TJ and I don't know if I can stand MLing him :/ At this current point I don't think I want to help anyone kill him. I guess I could be persuaded to if the circumstances change. Or if I rethink this yet again and go back to paranoiding hard on him I guess. Like. I get it. But. That's not how I want to play this game I legit signed up because my bros were gonna be in there. If not why am I putting myself through this again. Can any of Baker's doc mates confirm if that Thaid vote was a 'wth' vote? Am aware V!Devo has a tell and that it was operative from MR42 through QF59, not sure if I still see it now, but Devo also made an effort to mask one Evil tell she had, so at this point I'm just going to shrug and reiterate that I know nothing apparently.

D1, likely prior to his thread post but I can't 100% confirm this due to the timestamp issue. Let me try to summarise the conversation - I know we can't c/p, but I can do that at least. TJ: "Hi Kas, gonna read the thread now." Kas: "Yo bro, k you do you" TJ: "I'm just gonna put my reads here like a commentary while I go through the thread" Kas: "Yeah ok you let me know if you need me to create another appendix section for your thoughts too" TJ: "Aman, Striker, JNV look Village from end of page 2." Kas: "Why V for Striker? He's Null+ for me but recognise I could be suppressing the read strength because it's broadly the same half of the axis for us." TJ: "Purely gut because Striker only had one page 2 post, but also he feels Village in page 3." TJ: "JNV's run-on sentences make them difficult to understand but I like their point on Empire connections feeling similar to Evil connections, and that's Village." Kas: "Agreed." TJ: "Thaid seems more concerned than usual about votes on him, as compared to when he got MLed as Village." Kas: "Not sure if Evil Thaid or a mod spoke to him. Because I received complaints about Thaid's playstyle in my MR." TJ: "Oh ok." Kas: "I'll probably mention it in the thread carefully [so as not to cross the streams with a game I'm currently running.]" TJ: "That Devo vote feels weird. And where did Exp even claim Evil?" Kas: "In RP. He RP claimed as a Disruptor. As I mentioned earlier in the doc, I think this is bait or Exp being spicy. Honestly it's just gut but that's what inner Meerkat says. The whole thing is just weird and you shouldn't take these claims at face value." TJ: "Uncharacteristic for E!Devo to jump on it." Kas: "My theory is that E!Devo thinks it's a reaction test and feels the most Village thing to do is to jump right on it. Devo is a cunning player, and the fact that no one else bit is alarming and flags her response as anomalous. If I can sense something is wrong, so should Devo." TJ: "Just read to the part where Exp says he has reasons." TJ: "Smh I didn't even realise the Elims were called Disruptors. Just thought he was against a plan." Kas: "ffs bro why are you trying to make me derpclear you" TJ: "lol legit bro I read 'Emissary of the Disruptors' and thought he disagreed with his doc mates on something." Kas: "Bro, I know you love deepwolfing but you don't need to commit this hard. My heart wants you to be Village so you don't need to try to make me derpclear you." TJ: "looool for real man, I even derped about something else." Kas: "Do I even want to know." TJ: "While reading my GM PM-" Kas: "Bro, please don't say anything. This is not a secure doc, or at least we cannot assume it is one. Cooperation is one thing, roleclaiming another." TJ: "Eh I was planning to roleclaim anyway." Kas: "BRO WHY" TJ: "If there is a leak, we know it's from here." Kas: "Judging you so hard right now." TJ: "If there are Elims here they'll want to prove there's no leak and not kill me." Kas: "Your kill wouldn't scream for explanation. And if Shadow or Orlok are E and you are V, they know I want them to be V and might hesitate, even though I've committed to activating vengeance mode if you or Orlok get killed." Kas: "Look, if you want to do this, don't let me stop you. But I'm required to point out I don't think this is a good idea. You know my views on opsec." He references his GM PM text a bit more than I'm comfortable with in the following conversation so I'm going to step lightly around it. In short, in the following discussion, he expresses that his derp was thinking that Diplomat was a role rather than an alignment. Checked in with El to make sure I'm walking the tightrope fine.

I keep rereading the doc conversation where TJ: Thought Diplomat was a role Did not realise that the Elims were Disruptors and thought Exp was arguing against a plan And I don't know. I don't know if I'm so desperate for him to be Village that my standards are floor high and I'm willing to take something like this as being indicative of TJ being Village. Would E!TJ say this to deepwolf pocket me? TJ Devo

Why would it clear me? It's really just disturbing for reasons to do with eight years of SE and some foundational thoughts that inform my approach to the game. Having that challenged is disconcerting and a part of me would almost rather you are E!Aman doing it deliberately rather than have to deal with having a core element of my SE approach challenged. Honestly I don't think I am in a good position to judge TJ because all I can think of is wanting him to be V but also some paranoia/discomfort. If he's V, I really want to know before EoD so I can pull off, because the alternative would be me having paranoided on a bro and gotten him MLed for no good reason. I don't know how it's possible to screw up worse in a SE game if so :/ I know I have lost any squeamishness I had on the lynch and kills years ago but for some reason, this game especially, it's deeply bothering me to push my own bros. Which I guess is another way of saying that if he's V, I don't even think I'd have the heart to fight you and will want death. I'm aware of our exchange in QF59 about ML guilt and I stand by it. I also assess that in my current state, nothing is more likely to drive me back in that hole than if I ML a bro right now, whether I am trying to get rid of it or not :/ Request that if the worst happens, you refrain from drawing alignment inferences from it to me. Is why I am begging @|TJ| to please, please, get back if V bhai because I don't want to have to do this :/ Small part of me wants to selfishly just vote Devo so I don't have to think about it or face this, but the only two things barely holding me back are her point on Mat (though it's weak) and the fact I'm legit worried I've lost all rationality where she's concerned.

ngl this is kind of disturbing

I liked it better as Latvian Hockey Federation My main issue with that is just really that we talked about it when he was reviewing the thread, so theoretically, before he voted. IDK, to me I do find it reason enough to at least give Thaid time, given his displayed behaviour in MR57 (learning; more attempted reasoned participation), and the possibility of player complaints (regarding Thaid's playstyle) escalating to the IM, which might have incentivised more behaviour revision. I mentioned as much to him, and his reaction was non-committal. Sure, it's a lot of mights, but was this really the best train given those factors? Eh.......... I know he specifically thinks he has a MR57-related reason pertaining to Archer and his vote. I've asked him if he has a way to talk about it that doesn't reference MR57 as he forgot that Orlok exists. (Wow, rude, TJ bhai, rude ) Edited to add: Okay, so you aren't down for a TJ train. Who are you down for? What's your current take?

Latvian Ice Hockey Federation? Help pls I actually disagree with this take. He was slow-walking Devo in the doc (prior to his thread post though I can't 100% confirm this due to no timestamp issues) - I was pushing him hard on Devo, whilst asking him if I was tunnelling all that while. He specifically told me he felt E!Devo would not have jumped on Exp, or at least that it was uncharacteristic. He was waffling on Devo, at the very least. Going onto a main train attracts a lot of attention, especially if (okay, y'all can stop laughing now) Devo is actually V, which would put TJ in the position of having made a suspicious late vote movement, implicating him in a ML. And if Devo is in fact E (which is still what I think and I'm not sorry that I'm so hellbent on this I can't think straight anymore), then there's no way in hell he's doing that. Aman was never realistically going to be a C1 starter without something especially damning. Something Orlok once told me comes to mind here. Realistically, he just has the Exp, Bort, and Thaid side-trains if he wants to create potential padding for if Archer continues to be under threat thanks to Aman. Edited to add: I guess you could theorise E!TJ, knowing my insistence Bort was Evil, could choose to slot onto Bort, banking on possibly bringing me with him in doc by giving me one of the trains I wanted. As an argument meant to indicate V!TJ instead. But I don't think E!TJ has reason to do that too much because I'm already on Devo, and the other main guy who'd fished for Bort takers earlier, Araris, was also on Devo. No real reason to expect we'd be induced off since we were already voting for a train we wanted, rather than for consolidation.