Pathfinder

She used the oathgate with her shardblade on multiple occasions, so she definitely has one. True regarding Skybreakers but as i said, that was when nale said to hold off because he would prefer to train szeth in it before its use. Now it could be said for all we know malata got training from someone off screen before we met her, but personally i dont think thats the case. Could be. Though we know oathgates work with spren so could be they also fly around to accomplish the same thing. Nothing certain yet. Could be. That is how she described the pull. Though the difficulty could also be stormlight accessibility. It is commented on a bunch of times how precious of a resource it is in the cognitive realm. She does ask ivory if the storm light she had left was enough to go back and he said no. So it could be stormlight heavy

If I recall correctly, when stabbed, the pursuer was able to still teleport away, without taking the blade with him. But if it was a hemalurgic spike stapled to his spirit web, I could see that traveling with him because it would be seen as “part” of him. I don’t think the feruchemical would count though

True, but she has a shardblade right? I know it was a bit iffy for a bit, but is it generally accepted you get your shardblade at roughly oath 3? I can't remember how the consensus ultimately resolved, but if so, then we can assume she is at least of the third oath. So purely spitballing on my part, but when we see Jasnah return to the physical realm and run into Wit, it is described as: "A streak of light spun about the ring, forming a wall five or six feet high. It faded immediately - really, it was just an afterimage, as if something glowing had spun in the circle very quickly" I got the sense that this was Ivory spinning around Jasnah to form the "portal" for her to transfer. So if Ivory refused to "spin", then Jasnah couldn't accomplish fully utilizing the surge. Though to my knowledge off the top of my head, I don't believe we have ever seen a surge require the actual direct participation of the spren in order to utilize it. I recall Shallan attaching an illusion to Pattern, but not that Pattern was needed to create an illusion. Wait! I just had a thought as I wrote this! When Renarin sees the future, Glys transforms into the panes of glass doesn't he? I am going to check and update my post momentarily. edit: Nevermind, remembered incorrectly. The panes of glass just appeared. It didn't sprout from Glys.

for myself at least it’s not lesser or greater. Its level of proficiency. We know lightweavers could get ranged soulcasting if they especially trained with it but elsecallers tend to be able to. Nale even made that clear to szeth, saying he had access to division but to hold off on training in that one. Meanwhile we see taravangians dustbringer using it casually. Which would still be one more use than Venli. If we term peering into the cognitive as counting for its use, then I guess my question would be how would we tell which jasnah used which time to peek into the cognitive. She has both after all and there is no discernible difference in peeking in using one over the other. So for all we know jasnah either only used transformation to peek, or only transportation, or switched between the two every single time for funsies. edit: technically jasnah having two uses more than venli if we count each transition as one (1. entering the cognitive while on the ship 2. Exiting the cognitive and running into wit) edit 2: also if we take Jasnah's deleted scene as canon, then she has been trying to convince Ivory to let her go. She needed him to be able to full transition. Up until that moment he has been refusing. So it wasn't that she couldn't, or lacked the ability to. He was preventing her because of concerns regarding spren (both his people, and the native fauna). Just like how Jasnah told Shallan not to practice with soulcasting because it is dangerous. Just like Dalinar not using his adhesion powers (regarding people) fully for a bit because again, as per the Stormfather, it is especially dangerous. Lift needed extra instruction with progression. Renarin had trouble with illumination (though we know other reasons for that). Kaladin needed to see Szeth use gravitation before he really began to employ it.

Ah, then if it’s just for peeking into the cognitive, I disagree about her using it more than Jasnah. Now, building on that, personally although both transportation and transformation allow to peer into the cognitive, I term true use of the surge as in soul casting the object or transitioning between realms. So based on two WoB the trend is counter-clockwise though it is not ironclad for meta reasons. Basically Brandon was asked if each radiant starts with a specific surge. He said yes sorta. That he has done that because he wants to introduce the magic gradually. There ends up being exceptions for narrative purposes. So the break down is as below: elsecaller transformation lightweaver illumination truthwatcher progression edgedancer abrasion dustbringer division skybreaker gravitation windrunner adhesion bondsmith tension Stoneward cohesion Willshaper transportation Overlord Jebus So I've noticed a pattern in the way that the Radiants learn their surges. They seem to learn their anti-clockwise surge before their clockwise surge? Brandon Sanderson They do. Overlord Jebus Excellent, everyone thought I was a crazy person! Brandon Sanderson They do tend to-- Now, I'm gonna give you some behind the sausage stuff on that. That is partially for writing expediency reasons. Overlord Jebus How do you mean? Brandon Sanderson I designed that partially because I didn't want to overwhelm people with too many magic systems at once so I came up with a little bit of a pattern so that I could have a little bit of an in-world reason why we were slowing that down. It's not a hard fast rule, it's something that I've kept to in order to not overwhelm readers so it's more of form following function than the other way around. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

When? I was really hoping to see her use it so we could finally put to rest whether or not transportation the surge provided instantaneous transfer between two locations in the physical realm, but I don’t recall seeing it. She used a whole lot of cohesion. Is that the surge you are referring to? Because if I missed it please tell me where so I can check it out! Lol

Rhythm of War confirmed for me that Adolin is purely a foil. I do not think that is a bad thing. I just think that is all he is. Any view point, big moment or plot of his is either to serve a main character's arc, or is another main character's arc that was stretched to include him. I have included what I believe to be all the arcs below: 1. Dalinar questioning his sanity. We have confirmation via WoB that Adolin was used to make this inner conflict external 2. The Tower. Kaladin and Dalinar's moment. Adolin was the means to connect the two 3. The four shardbearer duel. The lead up was to serve Dalinar's plot of uniting the highprinces and place suspicion on Amaram. The fight itself was to give Kaladin a moment to challenge Amaram and further his plot to nearly break his oath with Syl when he was locked away as result. 4. Relationship with Shallan served to develop Shallan further, give her access to the Kholins (since if Jasnah was there as originally intended, Brandon felt would suffocate Shallan's character and prevent her from growing), and provide her a vehicle (literally and figuratively) to Urithiru. 5. Killing Sadeas. The inciting moment served Dalinar's (facing now the world threat), and Shallan's (Ghostbloods) arc. 6. Revelation about the Rift and Evi, totally and absolutely about Dalinar and his arc. Adolin was just to make it external like the insanity in WoK. 7. Infiltration of Kholinar. Kaladin's arc about his conflict with seeing enemies as people, and freezing up. Shallan's arc about facing her deeper secrets. Adolin was an excuse for them to be there. (oh yeah almost forgot, and Elhokar bonding a radiant spren and getting killed) 8. Travel through shadesmar, Kaladin's arc about working towards his fourth oath, and Shallan coming to terms with what happened in Kholinar. Adolin was there to drive them forward And now we reach Rhythm of War which for me proved all of the above. All of the plots regarding Adolin, save one, were a rehash of all the plot moments he was apart of in the first three books 1. Adolin's issues with Dalinar is a plot rehash of Adolin's issues with Dalinar in Way of Kings with insanity. 2. Travel through Shadesmar is a rehash of the travel through Shadesmar during Oathbringer. 3. Adolin's fight is a rehash of the four shardbearer duel during Words of Radiance 4. The time in Lasting Integrity is a rehash of the infiltration of Kholinar during Oathbringer Here is the big one. Maya! The deadeye plot was originally only Shallan's. Testament was seeded since Way of Kings. That was the original deadeye plot. Maya and Adolin were never originally a thing, because in the original format, Adolin was already dead. So Adolin and Maya were to make the hints more obvious, and give him something to do along side Shallan. But Testament proves this was originally only Shallan's story all along. edit: Oh I forgot! There is also the WoB where Brandon was originally going to have Lift go on the trip with Shallan. So Lift would have been the individual exhibiting Edgedancerness remembering those who were forgotten, and might have been originally meant to be the one to argue in the trial. So as I said, my unpopular opinion is that Adolin is a foil character period, and for myself Rhythm of War proved it. Not here to argue over Adolin. Just stating that is my personal understanding of the character.

Possible? Totally. They could even start soulcasting from the cognitive realm, to make a basic chamber in the rock for them to cross over to, and then begin everything you mentioned. Personally I do not think they did because it would not only be resource heavy to initiate, but also resource heavy to maintain. Urithiru is great because in theory it continually gets refreshed from highstorms. There would have to be a way to transfer stormlight to the moonbase, whether wirelessly, or physically bringing a regular shipment of charged stones. The logistics are not overly problematic because I would imagine they could set up an oathgate for instant transfer, but again, that requires a whole lot of resources that could be used directly towards the war effort. But I wish you luck with your theory! Just doesn't work for me, that's all.

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am going on recollection and it has been awhile. Didn't Aethers grow and bud off? So couldn't there be like a central mass that is "the" AETHER, that then buds off parts of itself, that people then are given. So then they use "their" aether. So the central AETHER would be the individuals that Brandon is referring to that is close to Hoid's power? (used caps to denote the aether source versus aether spawn)

So first and foremost, just want to say, I do agree it would increase efficiency. I stated as much in my initial post. I just didn't think it would be strictly necessary. Although I agree it could be seen that way, I am not entirely sure the sand being charged is directly related to the amount of investiture. In WoB, we see him state that the sand responds so drastically to kinetic investiture, but not so much to passive. So theoretically you could have a ton of passive investiture, and the sand charge slowly, versus a brief and small amount of kinetic investiture, charge the sand immediately. Basically I am not sure the speed of the sand charging is directly related to the amount of investiture. I think the speed is related to the type. Carrying a lot of investiture over long distances would more be an issue of storage though, because once they leave the system, they would no longer have access to the sphere. I believe (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) but the purpose of a Dyson Sphere is when a species reaches of point of technology where they need so much power to fuel it so as to require the direct power of a star. That without such a power source, the society would collapse upon itself. Now I believe there are "swarm" versions of Dyson's spheres, but I would be concerned that if a fully encapsulated Dyson Sphere was employed with Taldain, that would prevent investiture from reaching the planet for natural processes (ecology) and destroy the planet. All of this is not to say I think a Dyson Sphere for Taldain is implausible, or shouldn't be done. Just musing on the logistics.

We also know that if a radiant soulcaster knew what plutonium is, and understood it enough to convey that to their spren, they could soulcast it.

Hmm, since mind control came up, and this is a thread about what scares you most. I wonder which form of mind control scares people more (not to make a poll within a poll, just curious) 1. Command style mind control. As in "Punch that guy in the face". You walk over and punch the person in the face. You are still "yourself" but you no longer have physical control over your actions. You are a puppet on strings, and powerless. 2. Influence style mind control. (had trouble coming up with a name for it). As in, the controller takes over the person, making them want to help, or follow the orders. So for instance Loki and Hawkeye in Avengers. After Hawkeye was mind controlled, he voluntarily used his knowledge and skills to benefit Loki. So arguably you have lost your sense of self, and mental autonomy.

This is less efficient, but much more convenient. Just sun bathe on Taldain's dayside.

I think he or she was referring to how Ruin could take over and control anyone with enough spikes. So Ruin was the one he or she was indicating as chaotic evil master.

Lol I was responding to @Nameless comment of a madman having the ability to end the world. Thought an insane general causing a nuclear winter would qualify lol

Wasn't intending to try and convince anyone one way or the other. People find things scary for different reasons (for example the ones I gave regarding Nightblood for those who fear non-existence, or a highly powerful force such as a shard, etc for those that fear feeling powerless). I was just going for the horror movie idea. Like Romero said, if people kept their heads, and were calm, the zombies wouldn't be a threat. But everyone makes a mistake eventually. Also as I said, silver runs out, (that's why the silver circles had to be rotated, and then replaced anytime a shade collided with it) so that lovely armor after a few attacks ends up a death trap making you slow and cumbersome. Personally I think if done well, Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell would make a pretty good horror movie. side note: Watch Dr. Strangelove (How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb) and you would get the experience of Ishar's honorblade lol.

I could see a lot of Sanderson's creatures scaring people for different reasons. Since the jury is still out on whether or not someone killed by Nightblood could still pass on to the "Beyond", that could be scary to those that believe in an afterlife. It could also be scary to those that ascribe to the view that investiture recycles and is a form of reincarnation. Certainly it can be scary to face something greatly more powerful than one's self (shard, fullborn, etc). Or creatures just bent on killing and eating you could be scary (white spines, nigthtmaws, and etc). But for me, if I am going into horror movie territory, I would say shades. You have all the fun of zombies (getting "bit" turns you, your loved ones attacking you) but also have to contend with there is no true way to keep yourself fortified and safe. Silver runs out over time and has to be mined, and over a long enough time line, anyone can slip up or make a mistake. Further its not like you can put on body armor to at least help. A single touch from something that depending on the lighting is invisible, frequently spells your doom. I think that would be high up there in any horror movie.

True it would increase output, but not sure it would be necessary. Basically Taldain has none of the problems regarding solar energy that we have. The sun is always in the sky, so no reduction of solar power at night. It doesn't move across the sky, so any solar panels (or investiture panels?) could be positioned optimally and left that way. No adjustments necessary. It is an arid climate, with water sourced in the ground so minimal to no rain (from my recollection), so no significant or continual cloud cover to block the sun.

So only commenting on this to give a little peak behind the curtain as how qualitative and quantitative research is done. Finding out is theoretically easy, but time consuming. The thread that sp00ks mentions that is a public poll asking an individual's religious affiliation is not the only way to determine that data. I have listed them below: 1. That is not the only thread that has done so. I believe there are two others that specifically polled regarding religious affiliation 2. There are two or more threads that inquire as to whether an individual went on their mission, what the content of their mission was, and where the mission took place. It is reasonable to conclude that an individual that replies to such a thread, stating that they undertook a mission or intend to do so, would be affiliated with such a religion 3. On threads that have nothing to do with Jasnah (for instance discussing Dalinar and the Rift. There are others), there have been posts where the posters voluntarily chose to state their religious affiliation, that said affiliation informs on their ethics and morality, and then proceed to explain how that affects their view of the scenario. So the reason why I say it is easy, is because no permissions would be required. No issues of privacy. No approval necessary. All metrics were provided voluntarily, in a public forum, at the user's own choosing without any prompting. Now obviously if I were to actually conduct the study, I would feel more comfortable confirming approval with the individuals who run the site, as well as reach out to all participants to check they are ok with being included in the study. This would also be beneficial as some of the metrics may have changed over time, (people changing their religious affiliation one way or the other since the time of posting). So following up and asking would be just good practice. Given the threads that would need to be tracked down, coupled with the variable response time of the participants (some have not posted in some time, could be on a mission, or just not active any longer) is what mainly results in the issue of the study being lengthy. This is just my way of geeking out and explaining. Not meant to prove any point, or endorse any view.

So I do disagree with this and have my reasons to, but as I was asking just for clarity and to better understand, I will leave things there. Thank you for explaining!

Honestly I have no clue. As you said, the earring no longer has contact with blood, and Vin has removed it, and put it back in. So then the question is, is it because it was used on her originally? And that is why it still grants the power? So since the meat or blood was not given the hemalurgic ability to start with, it could not get it just from the spike being within it. Or since my ears are pierced unrelated to hemalurgy, if I were to place her earring in my ear, would I gain the ability? My instinct is to say I would not.

So what I keep running into, is I believe there is a difference in necessity depending on if you are conducting hermalurgy, as in stabbing someone with a spike, versus maintaining hemalurgy, as in keeping a charge fresh in a spike. There is a WoB that you could take a hunk of steak, as in the meat, and drive a spike into it, and that would convince the spike enough that it is in a body so as for the charge not to decay. No blood needed. But then there are WoB that say being in contact with flowing blood is what lets the stealing of an attribute possible, yet stagnant blood is suffice enough to maintain the charge.

Totally respect your reading of it. My question is not to prove anything or offer any commentary. Just to understand better. The implication I got from your earlier post was that Jasnah was "running the numbers" as it were, which you believe is different than most people who examine the situation at hand. Quantitative deals in numbers. 6 out of 10 people chose A over B. Qualitative examines concepts. So for instance interviews and questions to find out why a person chose A over B. I am not trying to imply you don't know the terms. I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying Jasnah makes decisions more towards numerics, or values? and now re-reading it, I may have misread. That it is not that she examines things qualitatively or quantitatively, but that the situation itself is more qualitative rather than quantitative? But then again, I am unsure. Could you elaborate? Just so I can understand better.

So I qualify this by saying I am going on my recollection as I have not located it yet, but your post might help me as you reminded me it had to do with spren. How they don't technically have blood even on the cognitive side but the necessity of having a "body" to pierce that then reached that point? Sorry having trouble recalling the exact wording. Maybe including spren in my search will help locate it. edit: this may be the one I was thinking of, though it does leave kind of vague whether or not spren have "blood" in the cognitive realm. Just that they have more a physical form that can be used on and that there are "ways" to get it out if you know what you are doing. Mr. Suit Can spren - like Syl - be pierced by hemalurgic spike? Will it give some effect? Brandon Sanderson Yes. A spren can be pierced by Invested metal… Oversleep Could it be spiked? Brandon Sanderson Could a spike be used to give abilities to spren? That’s not going to work really well. Oversleep Could you steal from a spren? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you could steal the Investiture of a spren. Any Investiture can be used in a spike if you know what you’re doing. It’s actually not that hard to use one on a spren. Oversleep Because I thought you said Hemalurgy needs moving blood. Brandon Sanderson It needs, uh, yeah… there are places where spren have more physical form, more tangible form. Questioner Roshar? Brandon Sanderson No, no, no, not Roshar. Questioner The Cognitive Realm on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, if you go to the Cognitive Realm on Roshar the spren act differently than they do. Oversleep So you could spike in the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah I’ll leave a RAFO with you on that. That’s your fifth one. So there are ways to get any Investiture into Hemalurgy if you know what you’re doing. But yeah this is not something that would be a common use for Hemalurgy. Let’s just say that. Oversleep We do not concern ourselves with common uses. Brandon Sanderson Yes, I know you don’t. But yeah Hemalurgy, when you’re spiking into somebody you… you’ll see when we get around to it. Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

So I was looking up a WoB that I vaguely remembered that it wasn't blood specifically as what the concept of the blood was. I am explaining it badly, which is why i was looking for it. I have not found it yet, but the reason I am posting is while I was searching for it, I stumbled across this WoB I never saw before, that I think would be of interest to this thread. Questioner (paraphrased) can you manufacture spiritweb patterns, like artifiical hemalurgy Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) yes, they don't know how, but yes Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)