Pathfinder

Not trying for the mistborn. trying for the bead associated with the metal in the vial. Copper hides the pulse you make when you burn metals. So if the elsecaller was trying to locate the mistborn based on his or her power usage then yes. But that is not what I proposed. I stated the beads associated with the metals. So then the radiants get fabrials of other surges? We see it in the visions, and Navani planning on making ships with it. Its the next logical innovation. If teleportation involves the spiritual realm as Brandon states he will potentially do, then yes I do not think it matters if you start in the physical or cognitive, you are punching a hole through to the spiritual, and traveling via that, and then returning. The raft we see with Jasnah moves pretty easily to me. Shallan who is not good at soulcasting has to rebuild it each time. That was someone else's idea. My idea was leave some of the terrain real, some of it illusory, and some of it illusions with physicality. So the mistborn would never know if what they stand on is actual ground, an illusion they will fall through, or standing on an illusion that can be dismissed or altered at anytime. syl can fly so terrain would not affect her. Pattern and spren like him are not impeded by the terrain they traverse. They do not get tired traveling up hill for instance. They go up walls and across ceilings with equal ease. Hoid has life sense from breaths as well as white sand. Only one of those times was Shallan concealing herself. The higher in oaths the radiant is, the less leaky they are, and with shardplate, the radiant in the vision did not seem to leak at all. That still does not explain why the mistborn gets time to prepare but not the radiant.

I am not sure how that is relevant to how an atheist would view or treat such phenomena? Jasnah also mentioned she reviewed a myriad of religions and none of them held anything for her. So I would imagine the horneaters, though not brought up by name, would have been included in that.

Because there is a WoB for that. Shown below: Blightsong Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right? Questioner Is a Mistborn Invested? Brandon Sanderson The Mistborn, how they're burning the metal, you're right. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, the yes. Before, no, you're right on that. Blightsong So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder. Questioner Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) There is a debate on this, so being fully upfront, but in Oathbringer, from Renarin's perspective, Jasnah soulcasts three people in succession (soulcasts the first person, pushing them back, that person hits the second person, that soulcasts that person throwing them back, then another person), then she soulcasts a wall to smoke, and then while running soulcasts air to steps that she then shortly after runs up. Then after all that, and only after all that, does Renarin feel the surge of stormlight. So I maintain that Jasnah was capable of all of that prior to Dalinar bringing the realms together. The example I gave would be the elsecaller soulcasting the metals in the vials to smoke. Thereby the mistborn would only have the metals they swallowed left. Once those are burnt off (potentially very quickly considering the ideas to employ duralumin), the mistborn would have no more metals to burn. Then they are a normal person that can be soulcasted as per the WoB I included earlier in this post. WoB for atium misting vs knight radiant below: Questioner Who do you think would win, an atium misting, or Kaladin with Syl? Brandon Sanderson The atium misting, as long as they have enough atium, is probably got an advantage, but Kaladin can fly. So, I would bet on Kaladin, meaning he flies up high, waits 'til they run out of atium, then gets them. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) That still relies on getting close, but lets say I give that to you. A truthwatcher would heal that back immediately like it was nothing. Soulcasters are used to getting through things natural investiture. Then there is the whole fact that Jasnah soulcasted three thugs, one at short range, two at range. WoB that I showed earlier shows Elsecallers as the order are better at ranged soulcasting. Questioner Can you Soulcast an Invested object? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it's much harder. But humans are Invested, and you can soulcast humans. Questioner So, suppose you had a goldmind that was filled. And you tried to Soulcast into iron. What would happen to the Investiture inside it? Brandon Sanderson So, the Investiture would remain in there, but it's keyed to the wrong thing, so you wouldn't be able to get it. It'd be much harder to Soulcast that, by the way. The more Invested, the harder it is. But Soulcasters are used to it, because everything has Investiture, and most of what they're Soulcasting. They deal with this, so it's something they're kind of expert at. So, this is not outside reason, that it could happen. You could give it to your average Soulcaster on Roshar, and they could make it happen. You just wouldn't be able to get the Investiture out of it anymore. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) So now the mistborn is scrambling with a file to find allomantically burnable metals to file and ingest? Remember they require certain percentages in order not to be poisoned. I agree. I do not think it is a good idea to bring up the infinite investiture, backed by shard situation. It has caused a whole lot of arguments and disagreements. So I think it is just better to avoid it. Or at least I will. Continue to do so if you so choose. I agree. Ehhh, theoretically yes, but I think that still discounts what the surges can do preventing that mistborn from touching them. That coupled with the WoB I mentioned regarding how chromium works results in me thinking the mistborn may run out of chromium before the radiant shardplate is drained away. Yeah there are a whole bunch of other threads talking about a full feruchemist or using a fullborn. I would personally rather stay away from that. But a little tidbit as an aside. Yes a full metal mind would not get cut via phasing like everything else, but that still does not change a large sword is being swung at (in some cases) brittle metal. The metal can still break or be punctured. Yeah not going to touch that with a 1000 foot pole. Its been discussed to death, with no one coming out of that happy. Doesn't have to locate the mistborn in the physical, just locate the beads of the metals in the cognitive. When you offer stormlight, the beads come to you. If that is on the table, then transformation being able to soulcast aluminum should be on the table. We have seen Jasnah and Shallan use stormlight to summon a "raft" of beads and use it to travel. And of course this also goes back to me believing Elsecallers can teleport, not just transfer back and forth between the cognitive and physical. So the mistborn is going to smell the rock before throwing a coin at it, to push off to dodge to the left? Spren can go through keyholes and under doors. honorspren can fly direct, while some spren travel across the ground. As to detection via bronze, I do not think we know. Nothing stops them from doing so. The weapon shifts immediately to whatever the radiant imagines at the speed of thought. So I agree this is a very important distinction. If the mistborn is being provided with time to prepare for the battle and hide, why not the radiant? Why cannot the lightweaver alter the battlefield with soulcasting and illusion? Why can't the elsecaller hang out in the cognitive waiting for him to show? I think it is not very balanced affording the mistborn all this prep time and not allow the same for the radiant. And radiants fight giant monsters that can destroy walls with their foot. They fight monsters that can be unendingly produced (midnight essences). I disagree, but to each their own. I agree with most of your post.

No problem. Its on page 1, the 24th post. Your answer is right there. Radiant would be using an ability, not neccesarily up close and swinging Stormlight also enhances speed and dexterity. So they would be roughly on par with each other. Now if the mistborn was burning atium thats a different story. Did you have a chance to read the WoB i posted on how chromium functions? It does not happen instantly. The uninvested is burned away first. Then invested. Invested metals take longer. Brandon said it could take seconds and requires contact to be maintained. that is the difference between metal flakes and jewelry. This is full body armor we are talking about. It will take longer than seconds to leech that. If the mistborn activated duralumin, then all their currently burning metals would also vanish from being burned in a large burst. I disagree for the above reasons We know via WoB that a duralumin push can affect shardblades. But living spren blades can be dismissed and resummoned instantly while the mistborn has just burned away all his or her metals and has to refuel. If it was against an elsecaller, those metals would have already been soulcasted to smoke so no additional resources. That is not how bendalloy works at all. You put up the bubble. Move within it. Drop the bubble. Cool down time. Then you can put up the bubble again. It is mentioned the big danger of doing that is when the shooters learn waynes trick and wait till the bubble drops to shoot him during the cool down period. But each radiant has two abilities. So that is adhesion used in concert with gravitation or tension. Steel push still relies on metal on firm ground to push off of. No metal, no steel push. Deprive the mistborn of his or her coins and he or she will be dependant on duralumin pushes that exhausts his or her supplies even faster We know touching the source prevents firing of the spirit gun, but the woman in the story still had to dodge the shot when it worked. Sand mastery is only unique because we see specific examples of it working that way. The power of a ribbon is in its point. Breaking the ribbon at its side with anything mundane disrupts it. Disrupting the power at the point destroys it. Taldain is a low investiture world. We have a WoB that the various powers on the worlds of the cosmere are not meant to be balanced. Some are stronger than others due to having higher investiture. Requires touch Requires touch My thoughts exactly Only when a mistborn is burning metals at that time and even then they can be soulcasted. WoB for that. As i said earlier, soulcast away the vials of metals leaving the mistborn with only what was ingested. If the mistborn uses duralumin, that removes the left over metals even faster. Then the mundane human who is out of metals can be soulcasted with ease. Can still affect people from the cognitive realm. See the deleted scene of jasnah soulcasting away ropes from the cognitive realm. As i said. Soulcast away extra metals. Transport to the cogntive realm. Let existing metals run out. Soulcast mistborn away. If the mistborn stops burning metals to conserve, then accomplishes the same goal. A mistborn not burning metals is as easy to soulcast away as a normal person. WoB back that up Anytimr the mistborn would try to push off a coin, the ground would turn to mud and move, moving the coin and throwing off the push Anything could be turned into a weapon or armor that cannot be affected by allomancy. Clothing. A hankerchief. Bendalloy makes a time bubble that has defined perimeter. Chromium is not instant. Please refer to the WoB i posted about it. It would take way too long and way too much chromium I agree. I agree There is the end part of that WoB. The edge of the barrier results in all sorts of problems. Basically if you run with a speed bubble, you are going to be moving air, stones and anything outside it across the thresh hold making it deflect. So its not steel feruchemy. There are additional limitations regardless of savantism. I agree Dont think the radiant even has to close the distance. Adhesion usually also has gravitation or tension. Either take a hair from the radiants head, and turn it into a needle with tension and throw a bunch of them killing the stuck mistborn or if you have gravitation fly over and lash a boulder down at the immobilized mistborn crushing him or her Or also use division while flying. Also use division to destroy the coins the mistborn is using. Mistborn can now no longer fly or attack at ranged. The slippery surface would also apply to steel pushes. The coin needs to be rigid to push off of. The coin would slip, preventing flight. I think renarin is unique so i think truthwatchers use illusions but i agree with your first point My thoughts exactly Tension works the other way. Allows you to make weapons and armor from clothing, paper, etc Which would prevent stable anchors for the mistborn to push and pull on I agree I agree I agree Please refer to chromium WoB. First does non invested metal. Then stormlight. Stormlight is contained via armor (the radiant in the vision didnt leak stormlight). So the third is invested metal. That takes the longest. Jewelry takes seconds. How long would full body plate take? And she was making illusions naturally at that age as per her memories I agree As of the end of words of radiance she was further along than him I would use illusions to confuse the environment while making constructs to help me fight Lightweavers can hide their glow. Shallan does so in kholinar in oathbringer. Radiant can summon armor instantly like spren blades. See dalinars vision I wouldnt be using multiple illusions of myself. Id use illusions to make the battlefield appear different so the mistborn cannot rely on pushing coins at places to use as anchors. Some would work (make illusion of ground or wall solid) but then give way suddenly. Meanwhile two flying white spines would attack (id give them wings so they would be more mobile) But depending on one thing to the exclusion of all else does not make sense I agree. Battleground needs to be determined

I posted the actual WoB regarding elsecallers as an order being better at ranged soulcasting, just checking before i respond that you had a chance to read it. There were a few WoB mentioned in that post (To clarify, not being flippant. Genuinely asking)

Check the graphic novel and the novel. Its right there. People wear terkin armor, or dissolve it into a paste and cover their skin with it. Kenton directs ribbons that cut right through chairs and tables, but when it contacts the person covered in terkin, it just falls apart. No injury to the person. if momentum was maintained the person should be thrown or injured from a burst of sand thrown at high speeds. The reason sand burrows through things, is it is spun extremely quickly, like sandpaper. It is described as drilling. Again mentioned in the graphic novel and book. But the people are not injured. Kenton had to pick up another chair with his ribbon, and hit the terkin covered person with the chair to hurt them. The chair landed, the sand does not. these are quotes from the prose from the last time I discussed this in the White Sand Forum

Lol I know that feel. Been playing Borderlands 3 into the ground. My wife just got me Disgaea 4 Complete+, I still need to do Golden Deer and Blue Lions on Three houses, finish Trails of Cold Steel 2, and finish Valkyria Chronicles. I got a playstation gift card I used on Final Fantasy 9 Remaster (my favorite FF), and pulled the trigger on Final Fantasy 12 The Zodiac Age. And all that and now Bravely Default 2 just got announced for 2020. I am going to be busy for a very long time.

I have nothing of substance to add, but just wanted to say I like the logic/rationale/head space you came up with for this. It is an interesting perspective and idea. i wish you luck with your theory.

I cannot quote the graphic novel, but I can quote the draft book though I am unsure if it is allowed here. As I already said, dispelling the ribbon takes a toll on the sand master. Each time the sand master hits the mistborn, they get hit with dehydration. Each time the mistborn is hit, nothing happens. Each time the sand master would need to summon new ribbons, while the mistborn would be moving and attacking. The sandmaster would kill themselves before the chromium would run out. Because the original post said mistborn. So that assumes the power set of a mistborn. A lightweaver without any outside influence should be able to make lasers as per Brandon using the power set of a lightweaver. Keep in mind duralumin is not selective. Whatever the mistborn is burning at the time of burning duralumin is used. So the mistborn would need to chug those vials, like we see Vin do. I think the screamers being unable to detect Shallan's illusions versus Kaladin's surges hints that there is a copper like effect for illusions. Cohesion can affect the metal pieces as well. The coins then become a depreciating resource.

Please refer to my earlier post that includes the WoB on how chromium functions. White Sand is a relatively low investiture world like Mistborn.

The terkin armor is dispelling the investiture in the ribbon of sand. A mistborn burning chromium accomplishes the same thing.

That would actually be even less effective. At least with the wave of sand you have a chance of burying the mistborn. I will try to clarify 1. sand master sends a drilling ribbon of sand at the enemy. It has force enough to drill a hole through a wall. it has momentum 2. enemy is wearing terkin armor 3. ribbon of sand, with all that force and momentum impacts the terkin armor 4. all momentum and force is lost. ribbon is dispelled and falls apart. No damage is evidenced to the armor nor the individual. The sand falls harmlessly to the ground So every single ribbon would touch the mistborn, be dispelled, and not cause a single scratch. The sand master would drop from dehydration. @Tglassy Although not confirmed, we see the screamers do not detect Shallan and her illusions. Though conversely the white sand did. So at this stage we do not know if lightweaving can be detected via bronze seeking or not. Also there is the WoB that the seeker has to train to detect other forms of investiture. It is not a default state.

When fighting a terkin protected assailant, and the ribbon touches the terkin, the ribbon is dispelled immediately, and Kenton reacts immediately. If re-hydration was instantaneous, then sandmasters would carry water with them at all times and just chug water while they fight. They would be the new sponsers for gatorade. But that is not how re-hydration works. You drink water. Your body them processes it. Digests it. You are putting forward that the sandmaster would create a giant wave of sand, which depending on strength would dehydrate the sandmaster already, and then it would touch a chromium burning mistborn, dispelling the entire wave immediately, resulting in the dehydration immediately, and the sand master could handle it because he or she is chugging water? I disagree. I do not believe it works that way. Someone walking through a desert, dying of dehydration does not suddenly recover from it when given a bottle of water. They need to be nursed slowly back to health. And dehydration is what happens to an overmastered sand master. They pass out. They need to be cared for over days.

No problemo. Here it is: Questioner Is Jasnah being able to Soulcast at a distance the resonance of her two Surges or is that just a Radiant thing that's not with the fabrials. Brandon Sanderson Jasnah's Order is better at that than others. It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Ranged soulcasting is just something Jasnah's order is better at. But anyone can learn to do it with training. edit: also a side note regarding the power creep: Questioner If I had any questions at all, I would say: ramp? Stormlight Archive, as it's going forward, like super power creep issues. The characters get so powerful so quickly, and it's gonna be a 10 (hopefully) book series. Brandon Sanderson Remember, it's two sets of five. And we will be... how about this. We're just gonna RAFO you now, because I'm being recorded. I'm not gonna give you any hints about the future. Just... I've got it in hand. I was able to write three books about Rand al'Thor at the height of his power, so I'm pretty convinced I'll be okay. DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019) I dunno, abrasion preventing mistborn from pushing off anything, coupled with healing I think would be hard for mistborn to counter I dunno, illusions coupled with cracked out healing? I have to give it to the truthwatchers. I don't think we can rule out lasers, but this WoB does not explicitly say it was used in the past: Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) [Discussion of Lightweavers manipulating other forms of electromagnetic radiation] But the ultimate form (That Brandon said would be too much to be practical both in needed stormlight and application) would be the control of Gamma Radiation. If this could be harnessed, Lightweavers could literally become mini nukes, or death guns. The biggest downside to making Gamma radiation would be the damage the lightweaver would most likely suffer. So gamma radiation is impractical but its a fun thought experiment. The best part of this whole speculation was how excited Brandon was about my train of thought. I don't know if anyone had brought up this train of thought before. But he was happy to remind me that things will get pretty interesting when Lightweavers discover lasers and start using them in combat. Miscellaneous 2016 (July 3, 2016) Already responded to this above. Mistborn is only aerial if they have something solid to push on. Willshapers and Stonewards would change that.

That would require the same circumstance as an Elantrian. You would have to have both combatants on the planet of white sand to have that much sand to use, and that wouldn't stop a mistborn from flying out of the way and just gracing the giant ribbon with a touch. But let us say what you present works. The sand master would be dead because he or she would be completely drained of moisture when the ribbon was drained of investiture. The mistborn with pewter could theoretically dig themselves out with pewter, holding their breath longer due to the extra durability and stamina from pewter.

Went over this in the white sand thread awhile back. People, without any abilities nor powers are capable of dodging sand master ribbons. If a sand master ribbon touches terkin, it is immediately turned dull. All force of the sand attack is negated. Otherwise the armor would have still been harmed. There are multiple examples of an arrow of sand being launched at a terkin covered person, and the ribbon just go dull. All it would take is for a ribbon to touch a mistborn burning chromium for it to go dull. Killing those ribbons would also drain the sand master of moisture potentially killing him or her.

No problem. Here you go: Kaymyth I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings. Brandon Sanderson What it boils down to is this: 1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off. 2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds. 3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal. ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015) That is regarding a shardbearer, not radiant. Not saying it would not have the same effect, but the mistborn would need to get close, get a grip, and leech the stormlight away before they could affect the spren blade. As per the order the WoB I just posted above.

I agree on feruchemy. Disagree on Sand mastery, but I respond to that later. I do agree awakeners could potentially accomplish more than what people say, but I still think it would be a difficult fight for them. What Jasnah can do with soulcasting is common for Elsecallers. Lightweavers are not as proficient, but if they were to focus on it, they could theoretically attain the same level of proficiency (WoB confirms). I think the biggest step an elsecaller would take when fighting a mistborn is soulcasting all the vials of metal to smoke, so all the mistborn has is whatever metal they were able to swallow in that time. Then the elscaller can just keep away from the mistborn in the cogntive realm till the metals run out, and soulcast the mistborn directly. Lightweavers I think would do even better. Illusions, potentially physical constructs, lasers, and so on are pretty epic. If it wasn't for elsecallers being so cool for me with their teleportation and transformation, my next pick would be lightweavers for favorite order. I agree I agree I agree I agree. My one tidbit to add in here, is ranged soulcasting that Jasnah did, is something any elsecaller can do (WoB confirm). A lightweaver if they really try can eventually learn to do it too. So the skill we have seen Jasnah demonstrate with soulcasting is normal for Elsecallers. The preventing of summoning the blade requires constant contact. I think that would be problematic up close to certain radiants. Though atium would certainly help. using bendalloy would only result in seeing the feruchemist running normal speed if the feruchemist is tapping speed. We see this occur in the Wax and Wayne series. The only reason it worked so well is Bleeder was cocky that Wax couldn't do anything, and didn't notice the bubble till it was too late. Now having said that, I agree the other abilties of a mistborn would help them avoid a ferchemist long enough for the supplies to get exhausted. We know they can, though the feruchemist has to be tapping it at the time making it kinetic. You cannot leach a metal mind not being used. I agree. The mistborn would just have to dodge a ribbon with atium, or just pewter enhanced muscles, and then stick a leeching hand into the stream Not sure either. Perhaps they would destroy the aon from maintaining? That is what would happen if you used nightblood on an aon. I agree. I agree, though atium would assist in dodging up close. But I still agree with you, physical closeness against a radiant would be difficult for a mistborn. We have WoB stating if you wanted to leecher someone compounding, you would have to maintain the hold for some time. So leeching is not always instantaneous. It depends on the volume of investiture that you are leeching.

I am not twisting anything. I have quoted you word for word. The argument is a straw man. Adolin could just as easily die with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily be irrelevant with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily live and be effective with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily be relevant with powers as without them. I still maintain using page count, PoV number, and narrative "relevance" to provide commentary on theories is inaccurate and harmful. They are arbitrary metrics that accomplish nothing but simplifies and reduces a stance to us versus them. That if you believe Adolin will gain powers, then you want all the wonderfulness for Adolin. If you believe Adolin will not gain powers, then all you want is the death of Adolin, or him disappering from the narrative. The two are not mutually exclusive and presenting them as such is problematic. Otherwise as I have said before, I wish you luck with your theory! Have a good day.

There is (to me) a difference between saying: 1. I believe Adolin will gain powers, and I will enjoy that narrative more than a narrative where Adolin does not have powers versus 2. Adolin will gain powers. If he does not, he will be irrelevant, and or die. It is a strawman argument because it reduces the discussion. It is the equivalency of using the rationale during the red scare. You argument is that Adolin will gain powers. Your icon is red. You are a communist. You want everyone to have powers. You want Adolin to be a communist. How do you discuss that? How can someone express the opposing side? Your argument is that Adolin will gain powers. If Adolin does not gain powers, he will become irrelevant or die. Thereby anyone that has a theory associated with Adolin not having powers must want him to become irrelevant, or die. How do you discuss that? How can someone express the opposing side in view of that? Great WoB, but it proves nothing. I will highlight the portions that support your assertion in green, and the portions that support mine in blue: Question: In a recent WoB, you have stated you considered Adolin to be young, hotheaded, and impulsive. However, the narrative of Oathbringer seems to draw a very different portrayal of Adolin: he comes across as very level-headed. Hence, has Adolin's character changed since the early books? Should readers interpret Adolin as level-headed or impulsive? Answer: It's not really my place to argue questions like this--I need to write the text, and leave it for readers to interpret. However, I see Adolin (though growing and changing) still as being hotheaded. He refuses the throne, he repeatedly takes on foes much bigger and more dangerous than himself, he leads the charge in the assault on the palace, he decides to bring everyone to his tailor without consulting them on the idea. Adolin is a guy who follows his gut. At the same time, he's a trained duelist--and has been prepared for battlefield command since his childhood. When you're in the middle of a war (or an event like the collapse of Kholinar) you need to be able to take command and make decisions. He'd be a terrible soldier and commander if he couldn't do this. The fact that, despite his training, he does things like attack Sadeas and try to take on a Thunderclast by himself is the proof of his character. So Adolin is hotheaded, but he is a trained duelist and commander since childhood. He will trust his gut, but will take command and make decisions that are for the best. If Adolin was purely ruled by his hot headedness, and will rush into situations that would get him killed, then he would not have given Maya to the shardbearer. Although Adolin makes the mistake of challenging too many shardbearers, he does not bull on ahead alone, but takes Kaladin's aid and works with him. Adolin lectures Dalinar and Shallan about effectively using the people under you to accomplish the goals the are better suited to. No where do I see a person who is so focused on being the one singlemindedly to accomplish something, that he would suicidal put him into a situation resulting in his death. Could it happen? Sure. But it is most definitely not a unavoidable conclusion of having no powers.

So people don't remember Jasnah? Renarin? Rysn? Rock? We only see Jasnah in combat once through out the entire novel. We see Renarin in combat once throughout the entire novel. We see Rysn in combat once throughout the entire novel. We see Rock in combat once throughout the entire novel. It is a straw man argument. Adolin should get powers. If you think he should not get powers, then you think he should be irrelevant or die. They are not mutually exclusive. Why is it you act like the only roles in existence are either fighting in the front, or being wallpaper? Dalinar was not only a negotiator/peace broker. He was a general and a leader. He is the one that figured out Thaylenah would be attacked instead of Jah Keved. Oathbringer the novel is the best argument that we have that shows a book does not have to only be about using powers to fight. You said if Adolin did not get powers he would either not be around during the action and thereby be sidelined, or get into a situation that is beyond him and result in him dying. The only way Adolin would get him into a situation where he would die from overwhelming powers is if he was suicidal. That is disregarding his tactical intelligence, and experience in favor of "I have to be the one to do this!" .There is literally a rant from Adolin in the novels about the responsibility of leaders to let those better suited to do their jobs. I mean at this point I am just saying it till I am blue in the face. No powers does not automatically mean irrelevance and death. There are plenty of relevant characters with no powers, and there are plenty of relevant characters not in combat. It is a straw man argument. No powers and irrelevance/death are not mutually exclusive and it is disingenuous to say otherwise. And that is my point. Your theory is perfectly valid. There are plenty of great plot points there and I wish you luck with it! Oh my god. Seriously? How about leading normal troops in a decisive route like Adolin did by digging into the buildings of Narak? How about using conventional warfare to combat the fused? Adolin leading a bastion of normal humans defending a city. Fused swoop in expecting token resistance, when Adolin suddenly calls the command, and ballista fitted with oil cans and flaming bolts are revealed and fired. One fires the oil can into the air, the other hits the oilcan, splattering the oil in the air setting it ablaze catching the fused in AOEs. Brandon has drawn on generals of the past. That was a real tactic during real battles. But yeah, total uselessness right? Total irrelevance. Based on your theory sure. Based on my theory I disagree. Which is why my theory has a bondsmith doing it. On Page 591 of Words of Radiance, Adolin lectures Dalinar on the importance of delegation and letting those more capable, or less valuable do their jobs. In this circumstance Dalinar was the highprince keeping his people together. Now Adolin is. "To get there, we're going to need you. An that means you need to let us watch out for you. I'm sorry, Father, but once in awhile you just have to let someone else do their job. You can't fix every problem with your own hands." So I have shown Adolin's own words about the importance of delegation. I have shown in book examples of when Adolin is out of his depth, he defers to those better suited in that circumstance, and then finding another way to help. I have shown numerous characters that are beloved regardless of page length and PoVs. I have shown characters disliked regardless of page length and PoVs. I have shown narratives with tons of pages that some people disliked. I have shown narratives with barely any pages that people have adored. I have shown ways that Adolin without powers can still be effective and still be important. So in summation: 1. Adolin without powers does not mean he will end up irrelevant or dead 2. If you believe Adolin will develop powers, I wish you luck with your theory! 3. Page count, PoV number, and "relevance" should not be a metric in which to judge a theory. They are arbitrary numeric values with no factual backing that adds nothing to discussion. Thank you! Personally I think if that is the case, Adolin and Co would take advantage of that. Knowing the fused would target him, they would set up scenarios where they could ambush or crush the fused that foolishly thought to go after a "vulnerable" Adolin. And from Adolin's own words, that means letting the people who are capable, do their jobs. Dalinar even had powers, but he still let Kaladin do his job of guarding him. Adolin even lectures Shallan about her guards. Thank you @iccaseiro58 (won't let me tag you for some reason), for taking the time to read, listen, and truly considering what is being said.

I disagree. And I think the fact that Adolin sees a difference is what is important. He chooses one over the other. I am not missing your point, I just fundamentally disagree with it. It is presenting an absolute when there isn't one. You do not know that. You are not the writer. You are not deciding what happens with Adolin's story. Could that happen? Sure. So could any number of other possibilities. You can believe you will enjoy a certain story for Adolin more than another. But to state another theory would not happen because in your mind you will not like how you think it will play out and that is the only way it could play out? That I whole heartily disagree with. And I disagree. Otherwise why is there visions Dalinar has with "normy" soldiers fighting? You are saying they aren't viable, so why are they there at all? Why have officers, and generals without powers? They are pointless right? Most of Dalinar's arc in Oathbringer involved him in a room, meeting with other leaders, discussing policy and ruling. How much of his present day narrative included him taking a sword and killing someone with his powers? None whatsoever. The closest is letting Fen's son run him through. Something tells me Adolin could have accomplished that without getting a sword through the chest and needing stormlight healing. And I disagree. Dalinar had that narrative and he is a main character. I see no reason why Adolin cannot continue without powers, or have a unique bond that does not give him full surges, and still have a narrative people can enjoy. I really dislike the false dichotomy that either Adolin goes the way you want him to, or he is irrelevant/will die. I disagree. I have showed numerous examples of other characters that are just as successful in all the situations you are convinced with end in suicide for Adolin. You believe Adolin will develop powers and enjoy such a narrative? Great for you! Just like those who think he will not will enjoy that narrative, without it automatically meaning Adolin is irrelevant or die. Disregarding other theories in such absolutes helps no one, and only shuts off people from sharing their thoughts, and growing enjoyment of the series Sorry but given your post started by addressing me, I assumed the entire post was directed at me

Well keeping in mind this is outside my usual wheelhouse (I prefer wizards, druids, or rogues. Never liked the idea of having to go to a deity for powers. Not saying anything is wrong with that, just always rubbed me the wrong way. Never played invokers in 4.0 for that reason, even though people suggested it for my play style) lets see what I can come up with. 1. perhaps he or she always sees the good in people resulting in them being rather gullible? Perhaps the DM can give them a penalty to their insight stat when against a bluff check, but a bonus to diplomacy with good NPCs 2. perhaps he or she does in fact see the gray that is between right and wrong. Given they are a paladin and their powers are tied with maintaining an alignment with their god, they frequently have questioning personal moments that result in their powers weakening, or shorting out. Other times their powers are empowered when it aligns with their convictions 3. not so thrilled with this one because I have mixed feelings regarding the Dresden files series, but maybe the paladin has a weakness for the damsel in distress? always gets suckered by a woman in danger no matter how obvious he or she is being manipulated? 4. Maybe for a vice the paladin enjoys combat. He actually enjoys fighting and killing his or her enemies. Inside he or she worries that is not very honorable, and wars within their own natures. I will need to think on other possibilities Could be. You gave me the idea to suggest using Dalinar as an example though. Perhaps the paladin has anger issues, or a vice in his or her past that caused him or her to seek "god".

If that is the case for you, then I guess I will see you at the end of the amazing ride that will be the stormlight archive.

Honestly this reads as the very classical dnd lawful good paladin. Follows the laws, honorable, keeps their plate shiney and bright, etc.