Pathfinder

But can you be a natural born Rosharian and awaken an object from the start with with only stormlight?

Which is still no where near the description given of Sazed when he stores all his abilities at the same time.

So there you go. Descendants of the Lord Ruler no more special than the next guy lol.

I got the sense that it was like a gypsy population that was loosely governed by the population and whoever was the strongest. You roved and made what groups/families you did. It was amorphous for a reason. At least in my opinion Upon re-reading the scene where Prof stops the explosion in firefight regarding another point made, I noticed his force fields were described as blue there.

Actually it was his idea. What was supposed to happen is they were supposed to do it prior to the wedding, so it would be flooded out. No one hurt, no one soaked, just a soggy floor. Those he enlisted got overzealous and did it during the wedding.

Not sure I fully understand what you are trying to say.

Cultural relativism does not always work. We can say we cannot judge a society because we are not apart of it, and yet we do and take action in regards to the untouchables in india, the treatment of women in the middle east, the genocides in africa and so on. We are not the only ones that find it shocking. Kaladin finds it shocking. Dalinar finds it shocking. Kaladin's own men find it shocking considering it resulted in their deaths that they did not expect. If it was such a cultural norm, then why did Amaram hide it? Just because Sadeas or Restares would have done it, does not make them a representative of their culture on whole. I am falling into Godwin's law here, but the nuremberg trials are a prime example. Just because your society may imply it is ok, does not make it ok. Amaram still killed innocent people, and probably helped kill thousands more in trying to bring about the desolations due to his own religious fervor. We have words for people like that in modern day society. They are called religious extremists and are condemned for the lives they take. Syl and Kaladin are faulty examples because it is pointed out in the book the fine line a windrunner must walk because their big ideal is to protect, yet they kill the other side that is trying to protect. So why is it ok to kill others to protect your own, but they should die when they are trying to protect their own. My belief is it is because it is war, and they are enemy combatants. In Amaram's case, yes they were soldiers, but they were not in conflict. They did not seek that conflict. They were literally in the wrong place at the wrong time. The murderers have killed in the past, intended to kill Jasnah and Shallan, and had they not been stopped, would continue to kill in the future. They are not the innocents specifically named when the first oath was explained. So the oath in my opinion is not as loose and easy as you feel it is. Please refer to my responses to sheep. There are shown plenty of lighteyes and highprinces that would not have made the same choice as Amaram. Just because because they can get away with it, does not make it a cultural phenomena that is immune from our judgement via cultural relativism. The fact that he feels guilty would matter if at any point he attempted to change or make up for what he has done, but even when Kaladin reveals him to Dalinar, Amaram continues his subterfuge. Dalinar even gives him prime opportunity to come forward as the honorable man he claims to be. But not only does he not do so, but he attempts to kill Dalinar for revealing it. Yes he is soooo guilty about the first time that he was about to do it a second time. If Dalinar hadn't been quicker on the draw, he would be dead. I understand what you are saying Maxal but again I still disagree. I feel the fact of those that were killed is what makes the gap between Jasnah and Amaram in my opinion so large. And for my above explanation I do not feel the first oath is as nebulous. Yes legally in our world you are correct that her actions were illegal. In my opinion however she would get off even in our world, but it would take some clever use of the law as written (which I have argued and stated in the other thread that went on and on for this). But that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing whether we feel Amaram and Jasnah are almost equal regarding their actions and morality. This has derailed this thread. I am not sure if the other thread is still active/in existence, but perhaps we should attempt to continue this there?

So here are the WoB I am referring to: JOSH Are the Dahkor magics powered by the Dor? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. So no Dor, no magic period. I know we all agree on this, but this expands on the next point LOCKE219 () When Dilaf is instructing the monks in how to kill the Elantrians, he mentions purification rites that need to be spoken. Do the rites have to do with the Dor? Or are they purely religious/ritualistic? BRANDON SANDERSON () They are mostly ritualistic, but a lot of what the Dakhor do is strongly influenced by the Skaze. Read into that what you will.
 So the Skaze is what influences the rituals and hierarchy that largely has nothing to do with how they access the Dor. WINDRUNNERIs the Dor made up of both Devotion and Dominion's power?BRANDON SANDERSON The Dor's nature, and why it acts as it does, is in part related to this question. Again this quote we largely agree on, just its application we differ, but that leads to the final quote Is all magic on Sel influenced by both Dominion and Devotion? BRANDON SANDERSONTechnically, yes. But they definitely have their themes and focuses. Influence is a tricky word, I'll warn you This quote ties into the earlier one. The Skaze influence the hierarchy and how the monks think they have to act in order to access the dor. They push the sense of dominion, but that does not mean the power system that draws on the dor is more dominion than devotion. Its like mixing equal parts yellow and red food coloring in a bottle of water, and then claiming as you pour out the orange into two separate glasses that are shaped different that you can selectively have more red in one, or more yellow in the other. edit: changed the color of what i wrote between the quotes to prevent confusion, and clarify which is my comments and which is the quote

Ah excellent point. I did not catch that. Thanks!

That's exactly my point and I am in agreement regarding relevancy. By being his children before his ascension they would not have any particularly special abilities, and in fact possibly could not even be feruchemists. Then through breeding with the general population over the Lord Ruler's tenure, plus the 300 years after that, there could be 100s of people in the general population with 1% lord ruler DNA in them that does absolutely nothing different than any other person lol.

But the world would not be reduced at 2 times speed. It would be exponential based on your description. You are already reducing your perception greatly by the same vector as your physical speed because by your explanation they are tied together. Then you are on top of that decreasing your perception greatly by the same vector you are decreasing your mental speed. I forget the math, but reducing your speed, for a certain amount of increase is multiplicative not additive I think is how it is explained? So based on your interpretation, it is my understand that in order to be able to accurately understand what is going on in the world around you while storing both mental and physical at the same time, the amount you would be storing would be negligible.

Just because there is someone worse out there, does not reduce the severity of ones action.

I do not think it is controversial to state it, however I still disagree. Yes we could argue the ethics of vigilantism, but that still does not change the target of these deaths. On Jasnah's part they were notorious murderers who will continue to murder, on Amaram's they were innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was going to say you are right that we cannot prove that Jasnah would not murder an innocent to further a goal, but then i remembered your point that just because she is a radiant does not make her good. Ironically that does actually answer you. The first ideal is journey before destination. The death of one should never be excused in the face of the preservation of the many. That is literally stated in the book. If Jasnah would like to continue her radiancy, she could not kill an innocent just to further her own or larger goals. That would be placing the destination before the journey. True both killed individuals based on what they could potentially do (the murderers potentially killing again, the soldiers potentially starting rumors that Amaram stole the armor), but in my opinion that is the difference between killing a snake that is hissing at a child with bared fangs ready to strike, and killing a puppy pitt bull because it could potentially grow up and be trained to kill

Yeeeeeaaaah there is a whole thread that goes on for pages and pages regarding how people feel about him. Personally there is a saying that you see or expect most in others what you see in yourself. Even when Kaladin told him he would have given him the plate, Amaram is convinced Kaladin would change his mind or be deceitful. I think that says a lot about Amaram's character.

That is a fault comparison as allomancy arose only of preservation. Feruchemy of Preservation and Ruin, and Hemalurgy from Ruin. The dor is a mixture of both dominion and devotion, so the users may use it in a way to be interpreted as one or the other, it is still from the same source, same intent. The splinters are a different matter. Elantians do not derive their power from a bond to a seon. You can gain powers from a bond with a seon much like spren, but being an elantian does not require you to bond a splinter. Also there are numerous examples of elantians that act very in the vein of dominion, yet by your view, they can't be elantians because they should be of devotion. Storms, even the act of drawing aons by forcing order and a rigid science to an amorphous power that pervades everything sounds very dominiony to me. That is an interpretation of how the power manifests, but has nothing to do with intent. It could be said that the dakhor monks are so devoted to their country that they would sacrifice their own lives for it.

So if I only store physical speed i have a slight slowing of perception, slowing of speed, but normal intelligence, store mental speed is slowing of perception, with reduced intelligence, physical and mental results in much slower perception, slowing of speed and intelligence. Then please explain to me the scene where Sazed is storing all his attributes? By that logic he should not even be able to communicate with Vin.

I was referring to a WoB that stated the powers of devotion and dominion are one and made manifest in the dor. You cannot access only dominions portion vs devotions. It is merged together. It just manifests differently and may appear more dominiony or devotiony

If that was the case, then what happens when you store mental speed? And what would happen if you store mental and physical speed at the same time?

I believe it has been proven biologically in the real world the more you recall a particular memory, the hazier it becomes. So this would be a natural extension of that.

All the magic systems on Sel draw from the Dor but manifest differently. It is all the same source. There are WoB on that

But it functions completely different because of all the reasons that allomancy is different then feruchemy.

Also going along side the earlier mentioned point of all birds are chickens, maybe some of the "minks" she sees are actually rats. Those things can get anywhere and everywhere

This is what I wrote in the other thread: Not necessarily. He could have had the children, ascended, the children grow up, maybe have a family of their own, the children notice Rashek isn't acting like Rashek anymore (Ruin's influence), complain, heated fight, he kills them, regrets it, and begins to question all he has done with the final empire. Meanwhile his grandkids, hidden away (and maybe even convinced the Lord Ruler they too are dead) so as not to end up like their parents grow up elsewhere, and propagate. The Lord Ruler still influenced by Ruin and Preservation convinces himself that a never ending tyranny is actually still a good idea, and continues. Meanwhile his descendants continue in the background all the way to the alloy of law era.