shawnhargreaves

Specifically, Kaladin thinks "Stormlight granted great endurance, but it didn’t vastly improve strength". But Kaladin's knowledge of how Stormlight works comes from personal experience. In other words, he knows how it works for Windrunners. What if Rock is on the way to bonding some other kind of spren? (eg. Stoneward?)

Doh! "slower rate of one breath per week" :-)

Earlier writeup of my thoughts on what the Fused magic is, and where we might have seen voidbinding:

I find it hard to get a basis for comparison because the way Breaths work is so different from Stormlight. Kaladin has easy-come, easy-go investiture: just breathe in to get more (from storage devices that are recharged on a regular basis) but it steadily leaks out if not used and is depleted far more rapidly if he does magic with it. Whereas Susebron has a giant store of long-lasting investiture, which he burns through at a slow rate of one breath per day and can do magic without depleting his store at all. In terms of concrete effects, the God King is immortal, but Radiants pretty much are too while holding Stormlight. Shallan took an arrow through the head and was fine! They don't even need to breathe while in this state. I do suspect the God King has more raw investiture, but am finding it hard to find actual proof of that...

Which, if taken to extremes, could justify going around killing arbitrary babies and then claiming you have saved the world. Crazy logic, but I could see one of Heralds subscribing to this line of 'reasoning'.

"This glass is boring. I'm going to go look for some others." - Willshaper

One thing I'd like to add about the parallels between Moash and Kaladin: Heroes are much more interesting if they achieve success in spite of serious challenges, rather than just coasting to a preordained conclusion. That requires them to overcome genuine peril with a non zero probability of failure. It's even more interesting to me when this peril comes in the form of internal emotional or ethical challenges, rather than just a massive pile of external monsters needing to be fought. I find Moash compelling as a demonstration of what Kaladin could have become had he made a different choice during WoR. They so nearly aligned at that point, but then arced in different directions and of course ended up in completely different places. But for a moment there, Kaladin was on board with the same decision that Moash saw through to the end. He's like an atium shadow of a possible future Kaladin that almost but never quite actually happened. Stormlight is full of these what-could-have-been alternative character paths (another important one being Dalinar and Sadeas). Seeing both possible outcomes helps me to appreciate the heroes more, and also sympathize more with those who made the wrong choices. As Hoid put it, one small nudge to a rolling boulder at a crucial moment sends down an entirely different path.

(apologies, for some reason I managed to post this twice)

"Is there really a glass, or just the illusion of one? Perhaps the glass is simply being made to appear twice as large as it needs to be." - Lightweaver "I will take this glass and carry it to those who are dying of thirst." - Windrunner "It used to be half full, but I just drank the other half as well." - Edgedancer

"one of my men defects" is quite an oversimplification of Kaladin's arc during WoR! I'd suggest something like: if one of my men raises a concern that I strongly agree with, and we bond over having this in common, after which he proposes a plan to act on the concern which I am conflicted about but eventually agree to go along with, except that I later do some growing and change my mind, at which point we have a conflict as he proceeds to put that plan into action - and then much later we meet again as he finally completes this plan and then turns and salutes me... Well, by this point there's a LOT of complex and contradictory meaning packed into that salute :-) Does he not? I don't agree with Moash on much, but being wrong is not the same thing as taking no responsibility... Moash wanted to kill Elhokar because he genuinely believed Elhokar was a terrible king who the world would be better off without (and, let's be honest, prior to the last portion of OB he wasn't entirely wrong about this). He was willing to make huge personal sacrifices in order to achieve this goal - most importantly giving up Bridge 4 and Kaladin, who he loved and respected. Later on he takes responsibility for protecting the Parshendi slaves (at great personal risk), which is exactly the same thing Kaladin would have done in that situation. As for his big epiphany that humans are unsalvageable so Roshar should revert to the Parshendi, this is an incredibly negative, nihilistic view of the world, but the conclusion "my entire species is so rotten that we should cease to exist" comes from taking WAY too much responsibility, not too little! (aside: I find myself wondering whether any of this might parallel the Recreance). I find Moash fascinatingly complex. I love the symmetries between him and Kaladin.

Personally I have always preferred the term "punchy guys"..... This, unfortunately is a repeat of Shallan's joke about the hangman and the headsman (it's easier to get a head). I need BS to get some more jokes, and soon. Two possibilities here: 1. Brandon is gradually turning into my dad, and forgetting that he already told that joke. or: <drumroll> 2. He intentionally wrote Shallan and Kaladin independently coming up with the exact same pun?

A project like that would have tremendous appeal to existing Stormlight fans, but it would be hard to make the business case when trying to attract a broader audience. Remember that, popular though Brandon's work is among fantasy readers, this is a TINY market compared to what a successful movie or TV series can reach. So the goal of any film adaptation must be to reach people who have not previously heard of Brandon's work (and in doing so, give him a nice boost in book sales). Thinking about it from that perspective, I'm not sure these stories are the place you'd want to start. Much of their depth comes from the situation in which they are told and the many layers of worldbuilding ties and hints, but that would all be lost on a newcomer. I suspect you'd want to start somewhere simple, easy to grasp, but also in some way intriguing enough to get the viewer hooked. Not sure what that would be though, as the way WoK opens probably isn't it. Brandon has talked about how that was an intentionally challenging start to the novel, trusting his audience to follow him through a lot of complexity before they found their feet and figured out what was going on. A newbie film audience is very different from an experienced epic fantasy reader, so would need a different introduction to this world. Maybe start with something like Dalinar and Elhokar on the Chasmfiend hunt?

Epic battles have a way of proving Dalinar correct. I suspect the reaction of the other monarchs to the events at the end of OB will be similar to that of the Alethi highprinces after the end of WoR. They'll still have their own agendas, but also a big fat dose of "ok, you were right about all that, and are also completely badass".

Shallan is the best one-time limited offer discount deal ever experienced in an epic fantasy: three characters for the price of one!

That's what I had assumed. I was keeping an eye out for them during OB, and this was the only thing that seems like even a potential clue where they are at. I can't wait to read Venli discovering that she is not the only remaining Listener after all.

Great summary! I've been thinking along similar lines, and completely agree there is more here. I have a theory about this:

I agree that the lack of species even remotely similar to the Parshendi is suspicious, as is the different blood color. Would be fascinating (and a great reflection of real world debates about mass migration and history) if they turned out to also be non-native. My doubt, though, is how fundamental the spren are to their sapience. This isn't like the Rhyshadium where horse + spren = super horse. Without spren, the Parshendi are non functional in a way that I can't imagine was their original natural state. The different forms seem so foundational to who they are, I just can't imagine an ancestor race of what effectively would have been slaveform before they arrived on Roshar and figured out how to bond a spren. Certainly, their sprenless form seems very different to humans,

"on Yolen..."

Stormfather also at one point mentioned that he didn't remember something up until the very moment when Dalinar asked about it. His memories are incomplete and unreliable. To the original topic, Malata had three purposes in OB: 1. She added weight to Taravangian as a real threat. 2. Provided a counter example to the "all Radiants must be inherently good and trustworthy in order to have attracted a spren" line of reasoning. Without her we'd see all present day Radiants getting along and being closely aligned in goals, which would undermine belief in the conflicts within KR that seem an important part of history. 3. Teased our desire to learn more about Division.

I agree there is something still to be learned about Honor's death. Starting with - how did a god die without anyone actually seeming to notice that? Other big events from Rosharan history (the Desolations, Aharietiam, the Recreance) produced countless echoes in history, religion, and myth, but somehow Honor just quietly expired over in the corner while everyone else carried on with whatever else they were doing? I don't buy that :-) Either we have seen things that we don't realize are echoes of this Splintering, or one of the other big things that we already know about was actually a part of it. I think there's a good chance Honor did this on purpose for some reason. Also intrigued by the theory that Cultivation might have been involved in killing him. (terminology nit: Shattering = what happened to Adonalsium. Splintering = when a Shard is killed)

@PhineasGage for Stormlight4 beta reader! That was both well informed and well articulated.

She is withholding information - she thinks at one point fairly early on that the cause of the Recreance must be kept secret so as not to destroy the other KR. I am of the opinion that we still don't know the full cause of the Recreance. But maybe Jasnah does - it's not confirmed that what she learned in Shadesmar or from Hoid matches what Taravangian later revealed to everybody.

If being scared by something was enough to become a Radiant, Roshar would be FULL of them by now! Trauma is just a pre-requirement - you also have to be the right sort of person to attract that kind of spren. Anything is possible, but I doubt we'll see her again. She was just a viewpoint to see what Mraize and Ash were up to.

Slight aside from this thread: I find it very interesting that we haven't seen any Fused in Dalinar's visions. There are humans, Parshendi, Aimans, Thundarclasts, and Knights Radiant (carefully written in such a way that it can be left ambiguous which side most of them are fighting on) but no mention of anything resembling a Fused. Not sure what that means!

I didn't understand this part of OB. We were told that, even before gaining the Surges, the Fused were impossible to defeat because they reincarnated every time they were killed. But in order to reincarnate, they had to use up an existing Parshendi! So this was just trading one potential warrior for another. Sure, that could be an upgrade if the Fused took over someone who was untrained/unskilled, but they'd still run out of bodies in the end. Doesn't seem as massive an advantage as it was portrayed. Am I missing something, or was Stormfather's explanation of this history missing something?