Fifth of Daybreak

I'm definitely not suggesting that he has access to the whole surge, but comparatively speaking, healing on this world is much simpler compared to that of Sel. Using Aons to heal, they had to know specific modifiers for bones and sinew, and that knowledge shaped the healing. Kaladin's knowledge of the body and healing might give shape to the stormlight in a similar way, even if it isn't of the Progression surge. I definitely agree that before, Stormlight healing was passive. Kaladin couldn't feel it working before he was conciously aware, and barely notices it when it is working after he understands. This just seems like it's very different from the normal passive healing. This required active concentration and thought. I definitely could be very wrong, but I remember seeing a WoB that I can't find at the moment that said there was something very different between how Kaladin healed and Szeth healed.

I like this. It makes a lot of sense for the Almighty to be "my lord.". . . Especially if it is Ishar saying that, since he is the pious one I wanted to elaborate on this, because IMO, it's not just a mattered of getting ordered by a master, but it seems to fall more on a religious level. Szeth believes that he deserves to endure the punishment of being Truthless, and so performing all these acts of brutality only serves as a penance for him.

More and more I'm convinced this is the case. Pattern pretty much confirms the Stormfather has been bonded before. If Dalinar is bonding with the Stormfather now, it would be a logical jump to assume that the Bondsmiths bonded to him before. Especially since he specifies that he won't bond in a way that could kill him, and won't give Dalinar shards. He had probably done this before using the same logic, which is how he survived. Elhokar would be proud of how paranoid Dalinar's spren is.

My thought process was that maybe because of Kaladin's history in medicine and surgery, that he is able to access the other surge. Cognitively speaking, Kaladin really views himself in two ways, the soldier, and the surgeon. Could this grant him access, if only limited, to regrowth?

I'd have to say it's very unlikely: If Ryshadium were of Odium, they'd most likely not react this way to the song that I have to assume is of Odium.

Syl says it's a cryptic.

I found a few more references in the book.

I've been assuming that it is a relic from their mother, possibly what Adolin's necklace from her was kept in.

For some reason the computer I'm on now won't let me quote or copy and paste, sorry for not being able to more properly format this. 1: . I do agree with you assassinating; Gavilar is illegal by Alethi laws, but Szeth is being governed by Shin laws. He is forced to follow whatever commands are given to him, in this case, it is most likely the Parshendi. We don't know enough about Parshendi law, however, the rules he has to follow in the assassination shows some of their codes of honor we see repeated later in WoK, that would be how Nalan could be involved with it yet it not be illegal, which actually plays into your point anyways, as he'd be acting under Parshendi jurisdiction. We assume that's what Szeth was named Truthless for, but until his flashbacks in book 3, we won't know for certain the exact reason he is. The heralds are clearly aware? In that very same quote the other Herald responses "perhaps." That doesn't seem clear cut to me. And yes, Nalan does imply he knows the crime that Szeth was punished for, but where do you get that he knew it was unjust? He would at the end of the book, because he was proven so by the arrival of the Everstorm and the Voidbringers. Nalan knows as well as anyone? Up until the end of WoR, no one knew, not even Szeth, so how would Nalan know, especially since he is actively trying to prevent that very event from happening throughout the book? 2. He is enforcing Azir laws. Yes he has an ulterior motive, but that doesn't make her actions any less illegal or his actions more illegal. Exaggerated punishment? Maybe. Is that reprehensible? Yes. Immoral? Yes. Illegal? No. And again, the only ulterior motive presented to us is attempting to prevent the desolations. What ulterior motive are you suggesting that he has? All you've stated so far is that there is an ulterior motive, which I'm not stating is false, but that doesn't refute any of the points that I'm making. Also, I know you've stated he can't prove the bribery and intimidation, but you're asserting that he is acting against all of the character development that happens in the interlude if that is true. Why would he then turn in his own underling to be tried by the law for illegally killing a child? Why would he let her go to slap that underling for asking if they were above the law? 3. I mistyped in my reply, my fault. I've since fixed it. But no, I'm suggesting that Nalan followed the formal process, and the execution was legal, just as it was in Lift's interlude. I find it incredible that you suggest it's a simple as, "he didn't need to do it in this case, so he didn't." He didn't need to in Lift's case! At worst, Nalan holds a regular shardblade, and leads an organization full of shardbearers. If he wanted to stroll into the palace and commit illegal murder, that's easy. At best, he holds an honorblade, Nightblood, and a small army of Surgebinders. That would make heading in and killing Lift even more simple! Anywhere in between on the spectrum, and the paperwork becomes a waste of time and effort. But because of his motivation to follow laws, he goes through the necessary steps. If what you assert is true, everything he said to Lift is a lie, and there is no reason to lie to someone he is about to kill. Furthermore, if illegal execution is not something that disturbs him personally, then he would kill Lift anyways after she's pardoned. When it all comes down to it, if he wanted to murder and that was it, he wouldn't need a convoluted plan that involved filling out a bunch of paperwork. Edit: fixed typos

Would that make him an 'armed' man?

We have WoB that they are the same.

First, a small quibble, Szeth seems more like an anti-hero than a villain, but I agree that he most likely won't be on the cover. This was Shallan's book, and Kaladin and Szeth stole her cover. I definitely would love to see the Kholin clan on the cover, but before Adolin, I'd love to see Jasnah. Especially if it's the image from the epilogue, or interacting with her spren. If it does turn out to be Adolin, it would be even better to see an action scene, him in a sword stance in the middle of a duel? Him standing in front of Dalinar protecting him from Parshendi? If it does turn out to be Szeth, it would be great to get a picture of him and Nalan standing on a mountain range between Shinovar and the rest of the Roshar, one side a green lush paradise, the other side and storm torn land. Upvote for a great topic choice!

I wholeheartedly disagree with your entire post. I'd be interested to see some sources for your comments if you can find them. First, Nalan would not have any reason to stop him. At that point, according to the laws that govern Szeth, what he was doing was legal. That's not the same as falsely naming him Truthless and sending him on that path. I can't see this as being a Peter Parker Uncle Ben situation where he would have blame, as Szeth was not deliberately breaking the law, but rather following it. It seems to me more of Szeth has to follow his own laws before following those of others, kind of like following rules of religion that contradict rules of society. Why do you say he would be an accomplice? Nalan even says that in their conversation: I can't see any justifiable reason according to Nalan's previous actions that would motivate him to stop a man from following the law. Second, unless you found something I didn't in the book, the only cannon rationalization for Nalan's actions is what he says to Lift in her interlude that I have quote in the originaI al post. My thoughts for his motivation are listed in my crazy end theory. I know that Nalan being insane or corrupted is a widely accepted theory on the boards, but I've listed a good amount of evidence here countering that, and instead of a blanket statement like that, I would like to see some refutation of the specific points I made substantiating my theory. With my crazy end theory, Nalan had either initally agreed, or was convinced that the desolation was not occuring, and the leaders of the Shin would have had something to do with him coming to that conclusion. That theory is also based on the assumption that he was the one to go back for his Honorblade, giving him interactions with them, but as I've stated, the end theory is tenuous at best, and based on previous theories, so I'm very open to different interpretations about what he might want to do there. My theory is just a large jump from the line deductions that I've made, especially considering his sudden change from Surgebinders to the Shin leaders. Why would you have any reason to think that he went around the law to kill Ym? According to all the other evidence that Brandon presents to us, that would be very out of character for him. If that were the case, why would he care more about following the law with Lift? It seems like if he's willing to go through all that trouble for a street thief vagrant that's not native to the city in which he catches her, why would he get sloppy going after a craftsman who would most certainly be more missed than Lift. Take a look at these excerpts from Lift's chapter: Everything is noted. Everthing is legal, the arrest, the search of the palace grounds, and the execution. No trial. And this in a country that seems somewhat progressive when it comes to government. You're making assumptions about Iri, which is a place we know nothing about. I'm more inclined to believe that he followed their laws to the letter, considering the information presented. Sure, we don't have documentation available for that instance, but I think that was more intentional on Brandon's part to slowly lead us to the realization that this is Nalan. He then adds the paperwork into the Lift section to show precedent for it, so that way we can safely assume he had to go through a similar process for Ym. Edit: fixed typos and mistake in phrasing.

I think I know when Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher. Chapter 62 The One Who Killed Promises Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I would assume this is when he visited the Nightwatcher, which places his trip sometime not too long before Roshone shows up at Hearthstone.

Chapter 44: One form of Justice-Kalladin Seems to be another variation of "blustering" that Yalb used. Also, is used a few times throughout the book. I

I had noticed and thought it to be intentional. He does seem to like to use self deprecating humor sometimes, and I honestly think that he is frightened of himself, but that's off topic.

Hoid has a great quote that could be applied to Amaram

Found it: IMO, it seems like that could definitely be an implication that he understood

The next time you reread WoK, keep an eye on Sadeas. Brandon always hints at these things. Sadeas repeatedly attempts to get Dalinar to leave his bridges behind. There are plenty of small lines and details that hint towards the impending betrayal, once you know what's going to happen.

In the quote, it doesn't state that it was because of any abuse, it was because of having too great power. But I don't think that entirely eliminates it as evidence. It shows that there is a precedent for him destroying surgebinders. It shows that Ishar also cared about the rule of law. "He readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men." What implications? Possibly that the desolation would start soon? I can't remember where, but I remember reading somewhere that there would be a surge in KR numbers immediately before a desolation (Jasnah with Shallan maybe?) "Unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws." This line especially supports this. Nalan is only targeting surgebinders that break the law. This vow has already existed, and the surgebinders live in societies that are ruled by law. Before, from what I've gathered about the time between desolations, there was barely enough time to institute a government that would have some sort of law form. That isn't true anymore, and so here are surgebinders that are not being bound by laws, despite their knowledge of those laws existing and what they are. This, combined with the "stop the desolation motive," gives all the more reason to kill surgebinders. It doesn't specify what precepts and laws, just that they be bound. I don't see how the theory is at all out of context with the quote.

You make a fair point, but on the other hand, surgebinders are not well known, and Ishar as well as the other Heralds aren't exactly in a position to make a public announcement. And also the warning was originally given while the Heralds were still bound to the Oathpact. It's possible that Ishar's main focus, along with Nalan's, is to stop the desolation at all costs, no warnings, only action. Also, Ishar was the Herald associated with the Bondsmiths. This snippet makes me curious about what it was that had to happen for the Voidbringers to be enslaved: Which to reconcile your questions, it leads into a large theory that the Recreance had to happen for the desolations to stop, and Ishar had something to do with that as well. But that theory is not nearly as well substantiated with passages from the book.

Bahahaha. There is no right answer. The experiment berates you no matter what choices you make. The reactions are priceless though.

Wow. Upvote for a three minute response time. Well done.

Hee hee. I love your points. I love this debate. How can we define morality and honor in the same sense with a reasonable semblance of logic in some way. Have you ever heard of "The Trolley Problem?" http://www.philosophyexperiments.com/fatman/ I think it's important to note in the front of there, that it specifically states there are no right answers. I'm pretty sure that this would kill Syl.

That's what's so fascinating about the spren, the Nahel bond, the ideals, and investiture on Roshar in general! Brandon states many times that perception has a lot to do with how the magic works. It's all about how you are perceiving the event. How you define it. You say he literally attacked the Parshendi, and I don't disagree, however, it was an extension of protecting the men, and the archers engaged them first. Men who at this point were charging towards them, quite helpless. The Parshendi engaged them first, he only attacked Eshonai to protect Dalinar, and you can tell how broken up he is about the entire experience through his feelings about it. Your point and my point are epitomizing the debate that Syl and Kaladin have. Syl is born of an ideal, Kaladin is a human with a more broadly encompassing moral understanding.