Veil

No, it was something Nohadon said in Dalinar's vision. The first thing Navani translated from the Dawnchant. Part of the old song/chant things whose meanings had been lost. (WoK chapter 60). I mean, really, I shouldn't be surprised that Hoid knows the Dawnchant (at least well enough to have translated a sentence) but still. Wonder if he's ever stayed on Roshar during a Desolation, or if he just swings by in between.

Nale is, I believe, the name Nin/Nalan is known by in Shinovar. I presume "Bent Nale" is a pun off "bent nail."

Back with more! Including Aon Reo! (Not the crazy one yet, but you can see the slightly-less-crazy version on Tumblr.) Mai: Mea: Nae: Omi: Opa: Rao: Reo: (Double sized because it's so insane.) Rii: Only seven more to go!

I've been working on modifying the Aons lately, so I thought I'd drop by and offer this picture: Elantris and the surrounding cities form the Aon Rao, but rotated 90 degrees. The chasm line connects the corner of Elantris' wall with Kae's wall at or near the road. In the book it's explicitly stated that the line ends at Kae's boundary wall, so the only alteration the book would need to make it clear is an accurate map and a passing reference to Raoden starting his line at the base of Elantris's wall. Or possibly a few feet away; could be the chasm line doesn't actually touch the mountain line like it does in my drawing.

I think this is a safe bet. It's unclear how long Szeth had been an assassin before he killed Gavilar, but he was never notorious. People didn't know to prepare for him. Gavilar was probably about the biggest challenge he'd faced up to that point--Plate, Blade, lots of guards... After that point was when the Assassin in White became infamous, so the assassinations Taravangian sent him on became increasingly difficult as more and more people--with and without Shard or half-shards--were pitted against him. He was proficient at Surgebinding by the time he killed Gavilar, and he's had several years' more practice since then.

I agree with Aleksiel and everyone else. Kaladin's biggest problem right now is that he's trying to do too much and it's eating away at him. Also, since all indicators point to Windrunners being a fairly inclusive order (with their squires and all)--as opposed to, say, Bondsmiths, whose numbers are severely limited--I agree that his next ideal is going to have to do with leadership or giving up responsibility. Currently my leading theory is something along the lines of "I will teach others to protect those I cannot" or "I will give men the means to protect themselves."

I'm sorry, but all I was thinking at this point was: Which the more I think about it, the more that actually does sound like kandra. Replace "oaths" with "contracts" and... XD Yep. No more late-night speculating for me. (Though I do think it would be awesome if it turned out the Diagram was way more Cosmere-aware than non-uber-genious Taravangian could ever suspect. The comment about the Wanderer seems to fit with that possibility...)

First of all, yes. That's exactly how the feud started. Second of all, that's obviously possible. And considering all the Cosmere languages are by default translations already, there's no real way to be sure whether what's happening here is a word surviving or a root persisting. If axehounds are "tacos" or "tachos," so to speak. I'm inclined to believe that if Brandon wanted us to see a persisting root instead of an intact word he would have called them "axecani" or something. And that's kind of why. It's not an axecani where Hoid says "I get axe, but cani? Like canine?" The scene still would've worked without the word "hound" being a recognizable morpheme in the Alethi language. Or without Hoid pointing out that Rosharans have no right to be using that word. But I also have a habit of reading too much into things (I will freely admit that Mistborn ruined me that way.) I wonder what axehounds are called in other Rosharan languages?

So Hoid's basically like us, grasping at tenuous connections and blowing them out of proportion?

This is possible, I suppose, but I'm not 100% convinced. I mean, the Dawnchant is a dead language. Not Latin-dead because no one speaks it natively anymore. Dead because no one remembers what any of the words mean. It isn't until Dalinar starts speaking it and can provide translations that they make any progress. (And the Dawnchant probably wasn't even the language of the original Rosharan humans, if it was spoken when the Radiants had already been founded.) So why would axehound have remained intact through thousands of years, multiple Desolations, and the fall of countless nations for Hoid to comment on when everything else was lost? A derivative, maybe, the way some English words have Latin roots, but hound is apparently just "hound." It doesn't come from a word that means "dog." It is a word that means "dog." A word that means "dog" in a language that has no use for a word like that. It would be like someone from Herdaz wearing Bermuda shorts. Also, I'd be curious to know more of the history of axehounds. I've always imagined (due to their similarity, culturally, to dogs) that they were more or less bred by humans from a different, wild species. Like how you can have wolves without humans, but not dogs--you can have, I don't know, "axeshells" without humans, but not "axehounds."

So I was thinking about Feather's WoR Splintercast the other day. Specifically about her musings on chapter 45 and this observation from Hoid: As Feather pointed out, it's strange to think that there's a word/morpheme in Veden and/or Alethi that Hoid knows the meaning of but the people of Roshar don't. What I'm wondering is if the Rosharan hound is a loanword from another Cosmere language. Plenty of other people have pointed out that shash is both a letter on Nalthis and a glyph on Roshar. We have a WoB that says there are "interesting connections" between languages/cultures, at least in part because all the Shards have a common origin. But what if it's more than that? What if an early worldhopper (Nalthian or otherwise) saw axehounds, then known by another name, and was the first one to call them hounds (in his/her native tongue.) The name stuck on Roshar, so now they have a word whose original definition they don't actually know. Thoughts?

I did a summary of the whole thread a few pages back. (Here.) We don't necessarily need the ongoing or discarded theories anymore, but I also gathered up the observations people might find interesting.

Clearly it was Honor trying to be faithful to Cultivation's "artistic interpretation" of Odium's trolling.

Part Three! I and K Aons. (Took longer than I wanted because of Aon Iad. Domi, but I hate Iad. Five tries to get the Aons at the right angles because it's juuuuust a tad over 90 degrees between each pair.) Anyway. Blah blah Tumblr for extras blah. This set includes the two Aons with two prime candidates (Ire and Kii) so both potential new Aons are included. Iad: Ial: Ido: Ien: Ire: Kae: Kai: Kii:

Yeessssssssss. Okay, now let's get a math major in here to tell us what this actually means. (I tried reading explanations of Julia sets on a couple math forums, but the chaos/order thing was literally all I got out of the jargon. Oops.) Also, that Wikipedia animation is apparently a Julia set in four dimensions (and not the time-is-the-fourth-dimension 4D I'm at least kinda sorta acquainted with.) So.... no idea if that's significant or not. (Shadesmar is the 4th dimension?)

I wish I knew more about math so I could really contribute to this conversation. Like I have no idea what Julia sets and Fatou sets are or whether they have anything at all to do with Roshar, but... Come on. Tell me that doesn't look like Roshar. Also, I like the sound of "Julia set behaviour is chaotic, while Fatou set behavior is regular/ordered." Sounds a bit like Honor and Cultivation to me. (By the way, RShara, if you see this, it might be helpful to add the summary to your first post so newcomers to the thread can get caught up.)

The Really Big Thread Summary **COMPLETE** WoB -"The Thing" pertains to the main Roshar map (from either book), is hard to find but relatively minor, and does not have to do with the compass. (Thanks to Luke.spence.) -The observation that Roshar looks like a spiral galaxy is on the right track, but "The Thing" does not have to do with gravitation/black holes. (Thanks to Shicaca.) -The special skill needed to find "The Thing" has to do with math. Also, someone at a previous signing got close. (Thanks to Peterwinkle.) WoP -Specific knowledge is required to discover "The Thing," and there's no reason to assume most of us would possess this knowledge. Even if we have the knowledge, we may not realize it's applicable. -The specific knowledge is not Cosmere-related. "The Thing" is cool, but fairly isolated. -Someone on this thread has finally gotten close (well... closer.) Prominent Theories -These concepts were brought up shortly before Peter's "Getting Close" comment, have to do with math, and generally seem likely candidates for "The Thing." -Fractals (particularly the Dragon Curve.) -This could support the Fractal Cosmology theory (that Roshar itself is a map of the Cosmere). -The Dragon Curve is particularly fitting if you break off the eastern arm and move it over to where Aimia is. -Odical compiled a list of natural fractals (and discovered a possible inspiration for the term "Nahel bond.") -Julia Sets -Tessellation -People have tried using the whole of Roshar in a tessellation pattern, but it doesn't line up Ongoing Discussions -Roshar has a striking degree of symmetry (point/rotational/diagonal.) Urithiru may be the origin. The significance of this is unknown. -The shape of Roshar is reminiscent of a spiral galaxy/two colliding spiral galaxies, a hurricane/storm cell/two colliding storms (possibly a highstorm and an everstorm), an Aes Sedai/Yin Yang symbol, the Double Pupil of the Almighty, or Brandon's signature. Basically the shape is weird and reminds us of a lot of things. -The spiral galaxy parallel in particular has led to a lot of speculation about Roshar being a Cosmere hub world and/or Rosharan cities/landmarks corresponding to other Shardworlds' locations in the Cosmere, but so far no confirmation on any of this. -History of Roshar: The continent may be the Pangaea of Roshar (i.e. a supercontinent in the process of breaking up.) Or it could be the result of a collision between two or more continents. Or it could be a mashup of lands from different Shardworlds. Also known as the Jigsaw Roshar Theory. -The "Aimia is Weird" Theory. Namely that Aimia either broke off the main landmass or has a different origin entirely, since it ruins Roshar's symmetry. First brought up early in the topic, then returned with the Dragon Curve theory. Compass Roses and Map Projections (A cool tangent, but not "The Thing.") The study in madness that is pages 11-14 Observations covered more extensively in other topics -Frostlands Map and Thaylen Glyphs -Map Symbol Unanswered but abandoned questions Interesting observations that are not "The Thing." Dead theories (through lack of evidence or just lack of interest.)

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the second batch of Radiants come from the Kholins, Bridge Four, and their allies. Kaladin and Shallan (and others, to a lesser extent) are proving that the Nahel bond isn't an automatic death sentence, even though most spren seem to be afraid of a second Recreance. I wouldn't be surprised if the spren are all watching the current Radiants waiting to decide if they're going to send more representatives. (We've already seen Cryptics hanging around Shallan and Elhokar, and the Stormfather watching Kaladin and Dalinar.) So if a lot of spren are looking at the Shattered Plains (well, Urithiru now), that's where they're going to find people to bond with. The closer they are to current Radiants, the more likely they are to be noticed/chosen. (Coincidentally, this is why I'm expecting at least a few members of Bridge Four to become Radiants in their own right--Windrunner or otherwise--rather than all staying squires.)

The Really Big Thread Summary **Updated through page 20** Now FINISHED. See below. (Hiding this post to reduce clutter.)

*Thinking of Aon Reo* (Reo is 4 rotated squares overlapping a double-diamond like the one in Aon Aha. That's already 20 Aons without the reflected one. So the version you're asking for would have 36 chasm lines...) I mean, it'll probably wait till after I've done the basic (1 chasm line) and all-but-not-all set (the ones going up on my Tumblr in the side-by-sides.) But I'll get around to it. If only so I can see the even more insane Aon Reo. haha

You know, I've been thinking we needed a summary for a while now, so I'll take on that insanity and try to sum up the topic-so far. (Covers pages 1-10; will be updating as time allows) Updated through page 20 below. Hiding the body of this post to reduce clutter.

Back with the next set! Again, side-by-sides and Aons with multiple chasm lines are on my Tumblr under the "aons" tag. Daa: Dao: Deo: Eda: Edo: Ehe: Ela: Ena: Ene: Eon: Eshe: Note 1. This matters more for the images showing multiple chasm lines, but I still wanted to explain how I go about finding/counting Aons within Aons. I follow two rules: 1. If a line can be incorporated into a set of the three basic lines, it should be. Extra lines exist only where the basic lines cannot possibly be. (In other words, anything that can be Aon Aon is.) 1.a. There aren't unnecessary Aons. Two iterations of the basic lines sometimes overlap (mostly the dot for Lake Alonoe, sometimes the coast line) but overlap should be kept to a minimum. 2. The basic lines are rotated before they're mirrored. So looking at Aon Deo... ...you can either have four Aons rotated around the center or four Aons flipped and rotated around the center (or a combination that leads to more than four Aons.) There's no need to mirror them, however, so I'm assuming they aren't mirrored. (This also preserves the "prime" Aon required for the placement of the essential chasm line.) Note 2. I really can't emphasize how cool Aons look with multiple chasm lines. Favorite Aon of the day: Ela.

The most important factor is that the "prime" Aon is oriented the same way as Aon Aon. (I suppose technically this hasn't been confirmed, but if you start each Aon with Aon Aon, I have to assume it's going to be the regular Aon and not randomly rotated or flipped.) Like that. ^ Most Aons only have one candidate. So far the only Aons I've found with more than one candidate are Eshe, Ire, and Kii. (Also possibly Reo. I think it only has one candidate, but I haven't studied that monstrosity too closely just yet.) Eshe has a central square surrounded by four others, so I'm assuming the center is the "prime." Ire and Kii have two overlapping/offset Aon Aons, so I'll probably be making two variations of those ones. (Unless we know whether Aons are drawn right-to-left or left-to-right?) Using Aon Aan as an example: ^The red lines indicate the "prime" Aon.^ Here's all the Aons (red for rotated, blue for mirrored and rotated.) There are 16 sets of the three basic lines, but only one oriented correctly. Does that make sense? Edit: I missed Aon Mea in my list above. Mea has two prime candidates, but again one of them is central (and also happens to be the only one with the X,) so I don't see any reason not to assume that one is the prime Aon. I also just have to say that Aons look WAY cooler with multiple chasm lines. I mean... Aon Are already looks pretty neat. Adding one chasm line... ...doesn't do much. (Although I'm sure the Elantrians are glad that's all the modification it needs.) But adding 16 chasm lines...

I just finished rereading Elantris and found myself craving some "new" Aons (that is, Aons with the chasm line included.) As far as I can tell, no one's ever drawn them. (Aside from these--which look awesome, but don't fit with the "correct" placement of the chasm line, as seen in Brandon's drawing here.) So I'm going to fix that. It'll take a while (so far I have half of them sketched but only seven cleaned up and ready to post. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the chasm line goes with only the "prime" Aon--upright, not flipped, and (if there are more than one in the right orientation) most central. This seems to fit with the text, e.g. when Raoden first releases the Dor with Aon Ehe. Aon Ehe has 10 iterations of the three basic lines, but evidently only one chasm line. (Which is kind of a shame, because it looks cool with a bunch of extra lines...) I'll be posting side-by-side comparisons and Aons with multiple chasm lines on my Tumblr, but I'll keep it to just the new standard Aons here for now. Aan: Aha: Ala: Aon: Are: Ashe: Ata: More coming soon.

There's climate variations across Roshar (e.g. the Frostlands) but I don't remember any references to actual seasons. I always assumed it was a result of highstorms. There might be seasonal variations in temperature, but the highstorms are going to cool off summer temperatures and melt any snow that falls--and there wouldn't be much variation in precipitation, either, except during the Weeping.