Shardcast: The Oathpact


Today on Shardcast, we have mega-Oathbringer spoilers, because we are talking about the Oathpact! First we start by performing Oathbringer Chapter 38, starring Evgeni has a very bored Stormfather. Then, of course, we dig into everything. How do the mechanics of Desolations work? How do the Fused get back to Roshar? When does a Desolation end? And of course we discuss the Everstorm and "new but old of design," because of course we do.

We have Eric (Chaos, aka Mr. "I change Dalinar's voice every line"), Ian (WeiryWriter, and also the narrator), David (Windrunner, and a dashing Navani), and Evgeni (Argent, and the slowest Stormfather). Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]

Of course, there's so much to discuss that we'll be back next week with an in-depth discussion on the Heralds themselves. See you then! 

 




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One of the most interesting questions is why the Oathpact is even enforceable on the Fused, since it's a pact between Honor and the Heralds. The podcast discussed how it must be related to whatever Honor+Cultivation have done to keep Odium on Braize, but I think knowing the mechanics of that will make everything about the Heralds and Fused so much easier to understand.

To make the pact work at all, Honor must have already had some power over the Fused. Was it just because they were connected to Odium and Honor already had some weird control over him? Why didn't Honor use that power to seal them away somehow before the Heralds came to him? Something about his intent maybe; did he need it to be about an oath? I have no idea, but I can't wait to find out.

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teknopathetic

Posted (edited)

Another question worth asking is if there is anything on Braize worth breaking, stealing, or interrupting. If all or most of the Singers are in the Everstorm, then could a team be sent to Braize to mess stuff up there? Braize seems undefended, and there must be some tactical value to wrecking stuff over there.  Can anything be done to a shardpool? Maybe Odium needs his to do what he does. 

Edited by teknopathetic

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Guys as always excellent podcast. Thanks!!! Jumping on what @teknopathetic said, why Braize? What is so important there that there is almost a deadly capture the flag taking place on the planet constantly. Is it Rayse's body? Would he need that as Ati needed his body? Did he hide something of Honor or Cultivation? I think we are missing something there. The Fused, there has to be a way to permanently destroy them. If I've learned one thing about the cosmere is that even man can destroy a god and ascend to godhood with "relative ease." Perhaps you can splinter a Fused as you can a shard? How do you destroy a herald? Moash received what seemed to be a special knife to kill Jezrien. Perhaps you could use that to destroy a Fused? Perhaps only surgebinders are capable of a destroying a Fused? Maybe you have to damage their spiritweb? Quick question, could the Listeners have brought stormform and the Everstorm while Taln was still on Braize? Also, Taln is like the best human ever! #TeamTaln

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I second this notion! Her beauty and sensuality practically leapt off the page. It was mesmerizing. :P

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Just have to chime in on a little technical point.  One of you (sorry, can't remember who) talked about progressing from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age where they had superior metal technology.  This is actually a (very common) misconception; from a metallurgical perspective, bronze is better than iron in almost every way.  It's harder and stronger, it's easier for a smith to work, it doesn't corrode as easily, etc.  The reason the Iron Age came after the Bronze Age on our world wasn't technological progress, but resource exhaustion: when tin became too scarce--at least in a form that could be easily extracted from its ores by Bronze Age technology--it was difficult to produce lots of bronze, and so they had to fall back to iron, which was much more common.

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Pandemonium

Posted (edited)

I always thought that when the storm father said that it was new but old in design. (Or something like that) I thought that the ever storm was then located on braize moved to roshar. 

Another thought following the previous hypothesis was one that y'all mentioned. The respawn point for the fused is in the ever storm. This solves both the storm father's comment and why they do not go back to damnation.

The question is then do the heralds respawn in the ever storm when they "die".

 

What I was hoping to find was clarity on the timeline. If humans destroyed the tranquline halls with surges and escaped to roshar, then how did spren turn on the singers. Unless humans could surgebind without spren in the tranqualine halls? The heralds seemed to be founded on roshar as they were founded to end desolations. Was the desolation something that happened pre roshar? It sounded like the human invasion was the first desolation. 

I had imagined that honor, odium, and cultivation each had a world. Cultivation being cultivation grew a new sentient beings into existence while humans we're just the chosen species of the dead god adonalsium. The faction of honor (spren because they cannot lie or break their word)vs the faction of odium (humans). Odium's faction being on ashyn and honors on brazie. Odium's went to attack honor there and honor retaliated by coopting some humans and then infecting humans with spren. Somehow during this honor pinned this tresspasser to braize.  It's a messy theory but as I have not studied all the Easter eggs or read unplublished works I am quite lost.

Edited by Pandemonium

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I was just listening to this again and thought about something.

In Oathbringer, when the Stormfather tells Dalinar about the Oathpact he says "Honor let power blind him to truth.. spren and gods can't break oaths, but men ..."

In the final Way of Kings vision Honor says of Odium "He is bound by some rules. All of us are." 

Preservation (Leras) totally broke his promise to Ruin (Ati). They had a deal!!! 

This, then, was their bargain. Preservation got mankind, the only creations that had more Preservation than Ruin in them, rather than a balance. Independent life that could think and feel. In exchange, Ruin was given a promise—and proof—that he could bring an end to all they had created together. It was the pact. — Sazed's explanation of the creation of mankind on Scadrial[11] " https://coppermind.net/wiki/Scadrial

Sazed doesn't call it an "oath", but he calls it both a promise and a pact and as Harmony he would be in a position to know better than most. Ruin, a biased source, also calls it a promise in Hero of Ages. Preservation made a pact / promise to another Shard and he totally broke it! First he trapped poor Ruin's mind with the Well of Ascension and then set up Vin to inherit the Shard and kill Ruin with Sazed being set up to take both Shards after that. He did all this to make sure Ruin didn't get what was promised him by Preservation. 

So ... what the heck :).

Clearly, Odium agrees that he is bound by the champion challenge he accepted. He is convinced by Taravangian to accept his help because of this in their meeting at the end of Oathbringer. 

"You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me."

I am not suggesting this is a plot-hole or a retcon or anything to get upset about. I just find this disconnect puzzling and wanted to point it out. 

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Perservation kept his promise, that Ruin will get the chance to destroy the world, but he then set it up so that someone could stop Ruin who wasn't in the original promise. Leras couldn't stop Ruin, but if he were to died and someone else took up the shard, then they could stop Ruin.

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1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

Perservation kept his promise, that Ruin will get the chance to destroy the world, but he then set it up so that someone could stop Ruin who wasn't in the original promise. Leras couldn't stop Ruin, but if he were to died and someone else took up the shard, then they could stop Ruin.

That makes sense. The new Vessel allowed for a reset, unplug the Shard and plug it back in :)

I was thinking that just by imprisoning Ruin's mind he was breaking his promise. Ruin certainly felt that way. I guess given that the Well of Ascension would automatically unlock itself every 1,000 years unless someone used the power makes it only a temporary impediment for Ruin and doesn't break the promise outright. 

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