Gandalf vs Dumbledore

[Ironwill2112 he/him]

So awhile ago at school, I was talking books with my friends. And one of my friends said that Dumbledore would win in a fight with Gandalf. Or at least that he liked him more. 

I (politely) raged. I proclaimed that (I love Dumbledore but) Gandalf is better and could most definitely win in a fight against Dumbledore!

And if somebody (somehow) convinces me that Gandalf The Grey would lose, (and good luck with that) well then Gandalf the White would overpower him for sure no question, without a doubt. 

 

So lets debate! Who do you think is better? (Gandalf) Who do you think would win in a fight?(Gandalf) Who has better magical abilities?(Gandalf) And any other questions you guys can come up with.

Pro Gandalf!

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

im pro Gandalf all of it, like Gandalf is a maiar of the Vala, so Dumbledore even though he be a powerful wizard would fail miserably 

[Ironwill2112 he/him]

Exactly

[Frustration]

There is one other form of Gandalf you missed out on.

Gandalf before the creation of Arda was even more powerful.

 

Gandalf is a Maiar, and weilds a ring of power, he could take an Elder Wand boosted killing curse to the face and keep coming.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

46 minutes ago, Boomerang Guy said:

Exactly

ah, a man of taste.  and frustration you art correct

Edited November 5, 2021 by Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I mean, when Gandalf was "beaten", he took the Balrog with him and came back stronger than before.. 

Dumbledore mostly dumbled about his door and caused most of the problems in his series, soooo....

[+Invocation]

Gandalf's lung cancer is a bigger threat to him than Dumbledore would be.

[Honorless he/him]

Dumbledore has greater variety of attacks and defence but Gandalf's not even human, he's Maiar. He cannot really be killed, pushed outside of Arda, subsumed, etc but not killed, I don't think.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Gandalf be da best, end of story.

[Frustration]

To the people saying Dumbledore would win, can you explain your thoughts?

[Bejarden he/him]

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

To the people saying Dumbledore would win, can you explain your thoughts?

Not to be dragged into a long argument, but I've never really seen a lot of indication that Gandalf is powerful in a melee sense. I know he has a ton of other powers being a Maia and a ring-bearer, but he never fights a lot, (I guess he fights the Balrog but what exactly did he do  to beat it is what I don't know)

Dumbledore on the other hand ,and I'm talking about in his prime, was known as an extremely powerful Wizard. Ans with the looseness of the Potterwolrd magic system Dumbledore is as strong as he needs to be to beat Gandalf

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Not to be dragged into a long argument, but I've never really seen a lot of indication that Gandalf is powerful in a melee sense. I know he has a ton of other powers being a Maia and a ring-bearer, but he never fights a lot, (I guess he fights the Balrog but what exactly did he do  to beat it is what I don't know)

Dumbledore on the other hand ,and I'm talking about in his prime, was known as an extremely powerful Wizard. Ans with the looseness of the Potterwolrd magic system Dumbledore is as strong as he needs to be to beat Gandalf

I used to think like that, and it's a fair assesment, but one problem is that beings like dragons are powerful enough spells bounce off of them, and Gandalf is more magical than dragons, at least the more common ones, we'll leave Ancalagon the Black out of that.

Now it's not unreasonable to think that Gandalf just doesn't get that, but those are my thoughts.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Frustration

[Channelknight Fadran]

I will now give my analysis!

Gandalf the Grey:

He's a maiar, of the Istari, under the goddess Nienna (who, for no reason whatsoever, simply cries for a living). He happens to possess one of the (elven) Rings of Power: Nenya, the Ring of Fire, which he generally uses to "kindle the hearts of the people of Middle-Earth." It does have more capabilities beyond that, but because he's a nice person that's generally all he uses it for. He also happens to be a wielder of the Flame of Anur, which happens to be the honest-to-goodness sun (hence why he's so good at summoning light all the time). In other news, he has his magic wizard staff, which probably (and this is largely speculation here) why he can be so direct with his magical abilities. He can take down a balrog, and Tolkien even said that he could probably take Sauron in a one-on-one. In short, he's incredibly overpowered, capable of using his sheer willpower to fuel his spells.

Gandalf the White:

Alright, imagine all that, but now stack Saruman's abilities on top. Gandalf was never combative to begin with, but even then he could defeat other quasi-gods and stuff like that. He came to Middle-Earth to deal with the its people, like how Radagast was sent to deal with its wildlife. Saruman, on the other hand, was sent for the express purpose of being a military leader and combatant. He helped the blue wizards search for Sauron's spirit after Isildur made the remarkable decision to take the One Ring for himself, and then aided Rohan in destroying the kingdom of Angmar (which is why they gave him Isengard and the tower Orthanc). He is, at his core, a fighter; and now his spirit has been combined with Gandalf's. So yeah; there is absolutely no way any sucker could take him down in this form.

Albus Perceival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore:

I'm going to give this lad every allowance here because he's gonna need them if he wants to take down Gandalf. I'll make him Master of Death: with all three deathly hallows. He probably wouldn't use any of them other than the wand, though, as the Resurrection Stone isn't that useful for combat purposes and Gandalf could easily mitigate the effects of the Cloak (if Mad-Eye Moody can do it, then so can he). Dumbledore is--and pretty much always has been--the most powerful wizard in the world. There are questions of whether he'd be more powerful than any of the Hogwarts founders or Merlin, but honestly I couldn't care less because that's not the question here. He probably knows about every spell to ever exist, and can organize them via *sparkle* memory magic *sparkle* to peak efficiency. It isn't in his nature to rush through his preloaded "combos," I don't think, but he certainly can for the sake of a fight.

The Battle:

I'm going to decide that "defeat" is a broad-ish term that doesn't require any specific conditions so as not to skew this at all. My gut reaction is that Gandalf would win in either form, but I definitely think that Dumbledore could hold Mithrandir for an extended period of time. Gandalf the Grey traditionally goes on the defensive, using his powers to evade and escape (such as with the Dwarves in the goblin caves), but in times of need will definitely pull an offensive on you. His signature offensive ability is to summon the light of the sun, which he used to defeat the trolls and against the Nazgul (occasionally). Meanwhile, Dumbledore--while also traditionally staying away from battle where possible--would probably go all-out from the beginning, going from one spell to the next with ease.

If Gandalf slipped up near the start, I'd actually bet that Dumbledore could win; but if he doesn't, then Dumbledore is screwed. As soon as Gandalf realizes that this sucker's the real deal, then he'd start using his other superpowers: such as his freaking fire ring. The Elven Rings are extremely powerful; probably more so than the Elder Wand. So even if Dumbledore fights with more finesse the entire time, Gandalf can definitely win by sheer power.

In the even that Gandalf happens to be the White now, though, then Dumbledore stands no chance whatsoever. If Gandalf the White is challenged to a battle, he'll just flat-out murder you in the first fifteen seconds.

The Conclusion:

Gandalf for sure! He's a god, dangit. And he has an Elven Ring. And the power of the sun.

Also there's the issue of either of them potentially sending out a small person to do the fight for them, so... (yeah, Harry Potter would probably win in a fight against Frodo.  I doubt Mithril would work against EXPELLIARMUS).

[Ironwill2112 he/him]

4 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

I doubt Mithril would work against EXPELLIARMUS).

lol

Too True. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

On 11/7/2021 at 4:40 PM, Bejardin1250 said:

 (I guess he fights the Balrog but what exactly did he do  to beat it is what I don't know)

The important thing to keep in mind here is that he did beat the Balrog. That is very rare, particularly in a fight to the death. That alone shows that Gandalf the Grey is a formidable warrior. It's hard to say what the equivalent of a Balrog would be in the Potterverse, if even one exists. So it's hard to argue that Dumbledore has done an equivalent feat. 

So, this is also to say that Gandalf typically does not fight because he's taken on an advisory role, one that is sacrosanct to his mission. He's not in Middle-Earth to resolve its problems with Sauron, but to help them defeat Sauron. This partially explains his behavior in the Hobbit, but it's mostly because the Hobbit was originally envisioned as its own thing and lots of stuff got retconned to fit the Legendarium.