Vin in Era 2

[Phlipz1]

We're all aware that vin was a mistborn prodigy. She was unusually gifted with metals and definitely better than kelsier (In his own words) by the inquisitor fight in HoA

How well do you think she would have done if she'd had access to era 2 metals like bendalloy in that fight. Assume the inquisitors don't have access to them

Obviously this is before she absorbed the mists don't be silly

[+Invocation]

Mistborn are compared to armies in one body a bunch of times, and Vin was noted to take that to another level even without cadmium and bendalloy. She was scary normally, but she'd be truly terrifying with the others. I can imagine her zapping a bendalloy bubble around herself and an Inquisitor (Wayne-style), Leeching the Inquisitor's abilities, and then flaring pewter to just kind of obliterate their ribs. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

If we are taking era 2 metals from inquisitors do we allow them atium and take it from Vin?   

Or are we working on the simple assumption that inquisitors were only mistings when created and would struggle with access to those spikes?

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If we are taking era 2 metals from inquisitors do we allow them atium and take it from Vin?   

Even if they had atium and she didn't it wouldn't matter all that much. She'd have electrum, and even without it, she figured out how to beat atium's power. Even if it were one of the Feruchemichally-enhanced Inquisitors, with Vin having access to Leeching, they wouldn't stand a chance.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

39 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Even if they had atium and she didn't it wouldn't matter all that much. She'd have electrum, and even without it, she figured out how to beat atium's power. Even if it were one of the Feruchemichally-enhanced Inquisitors, with Vin having access to Leeching, they wouldn't stand a chance.

So intent is a massive part of investiture usage in the cosmere.  Electrum is a viable option against atium.  I will concede that atium is countered due to Vin constantly countering it with electrum.  

Leeching is insanely powerful but it does not instantly clear all metals and metal minds when it is used.  Not to mention if Vin chose to leech via touch plus kill she is needing to hit 2 attack rolls vs an extremely powerful enemy who is already in position to only need to hit 1.  Plus F steel is way more busted than leeching anyways.  

 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Leeching is insanely powerful but it does not instantly clear all metals and metal minds when it is used.  Not to mention if Vin chose to leech via touch plus kill she is needing to hit 2 attack rolls vs an extremely powerful enemy who is already in position to only need to hit 1.  Plus F steel is way more busted than leeching anyways.  

Inquisitors use close-in weapons. Fists and axes mostly, and if you remember, they kept whaling on her physically. It doesn't need to happen all at once if your enemy is constantly putting himself in contact with someone with an active Leeching effect.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

8 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Inquisitors use close-in weapons. Fists and axes mostly, and if you remember, they kept whaling on her physically. It doesn't need to happen all at once if your enemy is constantly putting himself in contact with someone with an active Leeching effect.

F steel could allow an inquisitor their choice of vital organs to attack Vin with in the time she realizes she is able to leech let alone the seconds it could to drain all of their invested metal minds. 

[+Invocation]

2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

F steel could allow an inquisitor their choice of vital organs to attack Vin with in the time she realizes she is able to leech let alone the seconds it could to drain all of their invested metal minds. 

Steel's speed is countered by bendalloy bubbles, as Era 2 shows. The other solution for a Steelrunner is to checkmate them, which getting them inside a tiny bendalloy bubble would go a long way towards doing by limiting their available space. It evens out.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

Steel's speed is countered by bendalloy bubbles, as Era 2 shows. The other solution for a Steelrunner is to checkmate them, which getting them inside a tiny bendalloy bubble would go a long way towards doing by limiting their available space. It evens out.

I do think bendalloy is a legitimate argument as far as the element of surprise goes but I don't see it as the counter that I think may be presented here.   The mistborn can do nothing to the inquisitor outside of the bubble.  Any projectiles would be slowed down in the inquisitors eyes the very moment they exit the bubble and will be far easier for the inquisitor to adjust and move in time than for the mistborn. If both parties are on different edges of the bubble the edge goes heavily to the inquisitor as they have much more time and chance to react to anything exiting the bubble after them.  A handful of coins shot into the bubble is a complete roll of the dice for the mistborn as those projectiles may be slow moving until they hit the bubble but the moment they enter the bubble they take a different course and speed up significantly.  Yes a handful of coins would become a shoving contest which the potential for F-iron from the inquisitor would make extremely risky as getting pushed out of the bendalloy bubble would pop said bubble and give the inquisitor the couple of seconds to react before the mistborn is able to put a bubble up again.  All that and once an inquisitor enters the bubble his steel will again allow him ample time to move and react faster than the mistborn can consciously leech him. 

As an argument for the mistborn with the bendalloy or even cadmium (and something I have thought about as a potential combat use of these 2 metals) is that it is described as being very uncomfortable to move into and out of a bubble.  I can definitely see a moment of hesitation as an inquisitor is moving across the bubble for the first time or even the second time where they would be caught so far off guard that if the mistborn were close enough to touch they would have an opportunity.  If a 5 yard bubble allowed the inquisitor enough time to process that change he could still land a killing blow (and honestly it probably wouldn't take too long with their steel speed suddenly being as effective as it would have been minus a bubble anyway).  

I don't doubt it would end badly for both parties no matter what and we really don't know what powers each inquisitor had so it is all based on that.  But Vin with era 2 metals still doesn't have access to F gold and F steel.  

An inquisitor with the minimum spikes allowable would more than likely lose.  Every spike you add increases the inquisitors chances.  Vin era 2 vs marsh from HoA would still end with marsh winning most of the time.  We don't see Vin outright win a fight against an inquisitor without plot armor helping her anyway.  I don't think leeching and bendalloy bubbles will change that against an inquisitor with F gold and F steel.   She might be able to duralumin boost a leeching strike but likely she will be wiping more than just chromium when it happens and we really don't know enough about chromium to know how much of the metal it would take to wipe out reserves of feruchemal metal minds.  

How much metal does chromium use up to wipe out another metal?   So far we have only seen it wipe out a single mistings reserves of metal.  I don't know if a spec of chromium could instantly wipe out all investiture.  If it were to work that way a single chromium charged cube would leave a group of shardplate wearers stuck inside massively heavy plate with no storm light to power it making 1 chromium cube the end of the mistborn vs radiant debate.  I have a feeling that chromium leeching would take time to empty reserves.  It may do it quickly but can it do it fast enough for Vin to leech out all the powers from an inquisitor??? 

Both the inquisitor and Vin are able to touch each other.  We will give Vin the benefit of the doubt and say she gets to start leeching and attempting to dispatch the inquisitor.  The inquisitor gets to start delivering his killing blows.   Does Vin both leech all of the inquisotors metal minds and land a killing blow before the inquisitor lands one on her?  What it both plunge a dagger into the others heart at the same time.... did the leeching hand get enough investiture wiped in time and was it lucky enough to leech away all F gold?   

The bubble is vins best shot but not because it negates the speed.  Her best scenario would be to hope the bubble can disorient the inquisitor long enough for her to grab hold of the linchpin in that time.  I don't see attempting to joust with leeching touches to be a winning strategy.  Vin is so happy to test new ideas though I wouldn't be shocked to see her forgo grabbing the linchpin to instead try to leech the enemy.