Theory - Roshar was Adonalsium's Laboratory

[+mdross81]

The theory is pretty much in the title. Based on a number of different pieces of evidence, I think that Adonalisum may have created Roshar to serve as a laboratory for creation/experimentation. A place where he used his divine voice (we learn in RoW that Lights respond to tones/rhythms because they are reminiscent of the voices of gods) to command the fundamental forces of creation and existence.

Below, I've pulled together a bunch of WoBs and quotes from the books below that serve as background and support, and then I try to pull it all together.

BACKGROUND - WOBS

The Rosharan System was created by Adonalsium for a specific purpose:

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Overlord Jebus

Was just the continent of Roshar created by Adonalsium or was the whole system created?

Brandon Sanderson

Whole system was created.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

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Questioner (paraphrased)

How is Ashyn Earth-like given its orbit? It should be even less habitable than Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The Rosharan system was manufactured for a specific purpose. The position of the moons isn’t stable and even the continent itself might eventually vanish.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

And it wasn't just the overall system. The continent of Roshar was specifically grown by Adonalsium too:

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BipedSnowman

Does this [map of Roshar] look like a storm to anyone else?

Brandon Sanderson

I was searching for something that at once felt organic, but would hint at a pattern. (Much like cymatic patterns, as referenced in the first book.) Fractals and mathematical functions became my go-to place to hunt, as I like the blend of structure and spontaneity they can sometimes exhibit. The slice of the Julia Set was the one that stuck with me as feeling perfect for Roshar. As the continent was specifically grown by Adonalsium, you now know the seed that was used in-world to create it.

The fact that it looked like a swirling cloud is part of this all--but also part of the connection between natural patterns and the underlying math, which is a primary theme of the Stormlight books. So yes, it SHOULD look like a storm--but for deeper reasons than you might assume.

Footnote: The specific equations were determined later in that reddit conversation.
General Reddit 2016 (Sept. 9, 2016)

 

Non-sapient spren, the singers, and highstorms all predate the Shattering and were part of Adonalisum's intentional design.

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coltonx9

Do the singers predate the highstorms?

Brandon Sanderson

The singers and the highstorms are-- The highstorms-- Let's say no. Trying to decide which one came first. They were created, right? But the highstorms were created as part of Roshar, as well. The highstorms predate humans arriving. Highstorms predate the Shattering of Adonalsium.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

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Brandon Sanderson

 

So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other Splinters.

Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013)

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CarolaDavar's brother

[My cousin] thinks the Parshendi were made by someone so that spren could have a physical form. And he would like some critique on that.

Brandon Sanderson

Parshmen were created to be an essential part of the Rosharan ecosystem.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

One key aspect of the design of Roshar is the rhythms, which pervade the cosmere but manifest in a specific way on Roshar:

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Rasarr

If you took a Parshendi... And they were born outside Roshar and never visited Roshar in their lives, would they hear the Rhythms beyond Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Would they hear the Rhythms beyond Roshar... If you took one that was not born on Roshar, would they feel the Rhythms off-Roshar or just Rhythms in general?

Rasarr

Rhythms in general.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they would sense them.

Rasarr

Even beyond Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

What they are sensing... it's something that pervades the Cosmere but on Roshar has specific way of manifesting.

Rasarr

Is it the same thing that Soothers and Rioters are using?

Brandon Sanderson

Now you're straying into RAFO territory with your question/good question...

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

BACKGROUND - QUOTES FROM THE BOOKS

Eshonai, in RoW 116, concludes that Roshar IS the rhtyhms:

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Watch, the Rider said. You wanted to know what was beyond the next hill See them all.

She soared with him, enveloping the land, flying above it. Her rain bathed each and every hill, and the Rider let her see the world with the eyes of a god. Everywhere the wind blew, she was. Everything the rain touched, she felt. Everything the lightning revealed, she knew.

She flew for what felt like an eternity, sustained by the Rider’s own essence. She saw humans in infinite variety. She saw the captive parshmen – but saw the hope for their freedom. She saw creatures, plants, chasms, mountains, snows … she passed it all. Everything.

The entire world. She saw it. Every little piece was a part of the rhythms. The world was the rhythms. And Eshonai, during that transcendent ride, understood how it all fit together.

Next, we have Raboniel and Navani in RoW 76, discussing the relationship between Lights and sound:

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"Why, though?" Navani asked. "Why does Light respond to tones? Why is there a rhythm that makes plants grow?" Navani dug in her materials and began to set up an experiment.

"I have asked myself this question many times," Raboniel said. "But it seems like asking why gravity pulls. Must we not accept some fundamentals of science as baselines? That some things in this world simply work?"

"No, we don't have to," Navani said. "Even gravity has a mechanism driving it. There are proofs to show why the most basic addition problems work. Everything has an explanation."

"I have heard," Raboniel said, "that the Lights respond to sound because it is reminiscent of the voice of the Shards commanding them to obey."

...

"Voidlight and Stormlight," Navani said. "The voices of gods." Or perhaps something older than that. The reason the beings called gods spoke the way they did.

 

Later, while trying to create anti-Light, Navani muses further on the nature of sounds, lights, and divinity in the epigraphs for chapters 70, 71:

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Opposites. Opposites of sounds. Sound has no opposite. It's merely overlapped vibrations, the same sound, but sound has meaning. This sound does, at least. These sounds. The voices of gods.

Voice of Lights. Voice for Lights. If I speak for the Lights, then I must express their desires. If Light is Investiture, and all Investiture is deity, and deity has Intent, then Light must have Intent.

So Lights (Investiture) can be manipulated via sound. You know what else is Investiture? Spren.

Spren are sentient pieces of the same powers that are referred to as the Surges, the innate forces by which all life and reality are connected.

Here's Shallan discussing spren with Jasnah in WoR 3:

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"It comes down to the nature of spren. What has your research revealed?"

...

"Alai says that spren are fragments of the powers of creation. A lot of the scholars I read agree with that."

"It is one opinion. What does it mean?"

Shallan tried not to let herself be distracted by the spren on the floor. "There are ten fundamental Surges - forces - by which the world works. Gravitation, pressure, transformation. That sort of thing. You told me spren are fragments of the Cognitive Realm that have somehow gained sentience because of human attention. Well, it stands to reason that they were something before. Like ... like a painting was a canvas before being given life."

"Life?" Jasnah said, raising an eyebrow.

"Of course," Shallan said. Paintings lived. Not lived like a person or a spren, but ... well, it was obvious to her, at least. "So, before the spren were alive, they were something. Zen-daughter-Vath sketched tiny spren she found sometimes around heavy objects. Gravitationspren - fragments of the power or force that causes us to fall. It stands to reason that every spren was a power before it was a spren."

Here's Syl in WoR 9:

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"Natural laws?" Syl said, finding the concept amusing. "Laws are of men, Kaladin. Nature doesn't have them!"

"If I toss something upward, it comes back down."

"Except when it doesn't."

"It's a law."

"No," Syl said, looking upward. "It's more like ... more like an agreement among friends."

He looked at her, raising an eyebrow.

"We have to be consistent," she said, leaning in conspiratorially. "Or we'll break your brains."

Here's the Sibling in RoW 28:

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Humans cannot be trusted. You do not know how to keep promises, and promises are what make the world function. We make the world function. You must release your captive spren.

 

PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER

So if tones/rhythms can manipulate Investiture/spren/Surges and Roshar was crafted by Adonalsium in such a way that the rhythms manifest in a specific and unique way (Roshar IS the rhythms), it starts to look like Roshar was essentially some kind of laboratory/sound studio for Adonalsium. A place where he spoke as a divinity and literally command the fundamental forces/powers of creation and existence. Perhaps it even functioned as his broadcasting base, a place from which he issued commands out to the wider cosmere, exerting influence and shaping worlds. Going even a step further, who's to say it wasn't the exercise of these powers that led the 16 original Vessels to shatter Adonalsium?

As a responsible divinity, it seems that pre-Shattering Adonalsium was careful to place limitations on the power to manipulate Surges. See, for example, this WoB:

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Pod

You’ve said that you would call Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and fabrials the three magics on Roshar. Would it be more accurate to say that Surgebinding followed and emulated fabrials and/orthe possibility of fabrials or vice versa?

Brandon Sanderson

 Vice versa. Fabrials are... generally, Surgebinders first, fabrials second. 

Pod

So you couldn’t have done fabrials when it was just Adonalsium. 

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, before the [Shattering]? *deep in thought mmming*

Pod

Would the spren have still been able to do Surges then?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say... no. No, Adonalsium probably would not have let that happen. You could theoretically do it, if Adonalsium allowed it. 

Pod

He had boundaries against it. 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So, I would say no. 

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

But post-Shattering, Roshar must have looked pretty attractive to the Shards as they looked around for a place to settle down.

That's one of the things I really like about this theory. It fits nicely with the Shards that did make their way to Roshar post Shattering. Honor being all about promises (which Syl and the Sibling equate with fundamental forces/laws of nature), it makes sense that there would be a lot of Investiture assigned to that Shard on Roshar. I can also imagine Honor being particularly concerned with safeguarding a planet with such a unique ability to command fundamental forces. If Roshar was a laboratory for experimentation that would also fit with there being a good chunk of Investiture assigned to Cultivation, given that she's about being about creation and growth.

And Odium, being associated with that jealous part of divinity that more than anything wants its commands to be obeyed, would be drawn there as well. Indeed, Rayse seemed to think that all of the Shards would eventually try to get in on that sweet Surgebinding action from Roshar, particularly now that the bounds Honor placed on the Surges have fallen away. This is from RoW 112:

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"You offer a mortal life for that of a god?" Odium demanded. "No, Dalinar. If I win, I want the Knight Radiant. The forces of Alethkar and Urithiru will surrender to my Fused, and your Radiants will end this war. The other foolish kingdoms of men can keep fighting if they wish, but your people and mine will begin preparing for the true war: the one that will begin when the gods of other worlds discover the strength of Surgebinding."

That's it. That's the theory. In my mind it makes sense. But I concede that in same places I may have too simply conflated Investiture, spren, and Surges. Could be a crazy display on the wall in which I make unsupported connections between things or assume causation where there isn't any. But I think there's something here.

Anyway, thanks for reading if you made it this far. As always I'm interested to hear what others think.

Edit: D’oh! Almost forgot my favorite part of the sound studio idea. Ba-Ado-Mishram as the mixing board.

Edited October 15, 2021 by mdross81

[Olmund]

I think this lines up fairly well with the WoBs (and text passages) you've highlighted. We know Adonalsium made the Rosharan system for a purpose, and it makes sense that he would have had to create those initial splinters intentionally (similar to the Dawnshards). We also know invention and whimsy were some of his attributes, so that alone lends credence to the idea that he would have a divine laboratory for experimentation.

As for Ba-Ado-Mishram being the "mixing board," I think that while it does make some sense given her ability to entwine herself among the rhythms of Roshar and channel power to the singers, there are reasons to believe it could be more complicated than that:

1. If Sja-Anat's "enlightened" Spren are any indication, then Spren gain new powers when unmade by Odium. Rayse!Odium had invested very heavily into Roshar by the time Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to grant power to the singers, so she already had a divine channel through Odium to Roshar. That said, if your "mixing board" theory is correct you could make the conjecture that Ba-Ado-Mishram was one of the (if not the primary) means that Odium invested himself into Roshar in the first place.

2. There is compelling etymological evidence in favor of Ba-Ado-Mishram meaning something along the lines of "Child of the Light of Honor and Cultivation," which would place her as a spren created by Cultivation & Honor (like the Sibling) rather than a creature of Adonalsium. Granted, she may have been more of a mindless spren during Adonalsium's era (similar to the Stormfather) -- Cultivation & Honor infused her with their investiture and granted her sapience, which would still make BAM their child, just as Sja-Anat calls corrupted spren her children.

Spoiler

 

LewsTherinTelescope

Does "Ba-Ado-Mishram" mean "child of the light of Cultivation and Honor"?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, but you're doing a pretty good job picking apart the linguistics of that.

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 22, 2020)

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Olmund

[Serack]

This is a fantastic collection of the WoB and in text info on Roshar’s genesis!  

It’s my expectation that Also Aldonasium was a being of sufficient smarts (really struggling for appropriate term there) that he didn’t really need to “experiment” in an exploratory way.

So my theories on Roshar’s purpose tend to be more focused on it having a more deliberate purpose.

And my best guess is it is like a flawless gem trapping a Spren, except it’s trapping Odium, and probably the other 2 shards and likely recombining them to an extent

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/94762-roshar-is-engineered-to-be-a-shard-trap-theory

 

[+mdross81]

Thanks @Serack  I’m a fan of your theory as well. It certainly fits with the idea that Roshar is extra-sticky.

One thing I still haven’t figured out how to fit into a theory is the purpose of the singers as an “essential part of the Rosharan system”as Brandon said. Seems like it’s probably related to ability to hear the tones/rhythms, and the phenomenon of the spren bleeding through to the physical realm (which I think is unique to Roshar). But I can’t figure out how that fits into some purpose that Adolnalsium had.

[Quantus]

Nicely presented!

I too agree with the "What" but have a slightly different spin on the "Why": I think it's Intended as in Investiture Pressure Relief and/or Realmic Balancer.

We know that Roshar functions that way now per WOB, which prevented some of the potential fallout from Honor's splintering.

So maybe that's the intent and not a side effect. Maybe Adonalsium realized the use of Investiture/Darnshards/etc. was causing a realmic Imbalance and built a whole solar system intended provide a constant cycle of investiture through the realms, to give the Cosmere a way to reach and maintain an equilibrium state in spite of all the sapient futzing with the system was being done.  

Separate question is whether Adonlsium screwed something up bad before they made this to get the idea, whether the mortals noticed, and whether that had anything to do with deciding to go through with the Shattering.

 

 

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sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

General Reddit 2013 (March 11, 2013)

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Quantus

[+mdross81]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

I think it's Intended as in Investiture Pressure Relief and/or Realmic Balancer.

This is an interesting idea, and may address the question I posed in my last reply: what is the function of the singers in this system? For Roshar to work as a Realmic Balancer, you need something that can pull the spren through. Maybe not all spren, but for certain kinds, you need sapient minds/emotions to attract them. So, Adonalsium creates the singers, whose minds are close to the spren's realm, maybe?

Along these lines, I'll note that we hear a number of times throughout the books that the singers feel they are better able to control their emotions because they are attuned to the rhythms. Whereas with humans, Rayse notes in OB 57:

Quote

"Emotion. It is what defines men - though ironically you are poor vessels for it. It fills you up and breaks you unless you find someone to share the burden."

So when designing the system Adonalsium opts for the singers as a safer choice than humans to pull through emotionspren.

[Quantus]

19 minutes ago, mdross81 said:

This is an interesting idea, and may address the question I posed in my last reply: what is the function of the singers in this system? For Roshar to work as a Realmic Balancer, you need something that can pull the spren through. Maybe not all spren, but for certain kinds, you need sapient minds/emotions to attract them. So, Adonalsium creates the singers, whose minds are close to the spren's realm, maybe?

Along these lines, I'll note that we hear a number of times throughout the books that the singers feel they are better able to control their emotions because they are attuned to the rhythms. Whereas with humans, Rayse notes in OB 57:

So when designing the system Adonalsium opts for the singers as a safer choice than humans to pull through emotionspren.

More or less, though I dont imagine it as a Choice so much as that the Rosharan Gemheart ecosystem was designed as part of this pressure relief, and all the creatures of that world with gemhearts should be able to help that purpose.  But you are right it would need a Sapient species to fully support a cognitive realm, which itself is entirely needed for the Spren to exist. The Singers in that light would be the alternative specifically conceived of and created because Humans (and presumably Dragons and Sho Dal) where not innately suitable.  And probably needed the custom Spiritweb Expansion Slot that is the Gemheart.  

[+mdross81]

4 minutes ago, Quantus said:

the custom Spiritweb Expansion Slot that is the Gemheart

LOVE this description.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:55 AM, mdross81 said:

One thing I still haven’t figured out how to fit into a theory is the purpose of the singers as an “essential part of the Rosharan system”as Brandon said. Seems like it’s probably related to ability to hear the tones/rhythms, and the phenomenon of the spren bleeding through to the physical realm (which I think is unique to Roshar). But I can’t figure out how that fits into some purpose that Adolnalsium had.

I like the idea it's almost a reproduction thing for the spren (not particularly comparable to the corporeal methods though ). The spren bonds a singer and changes the singer to be more like their ideal, the singer's new thought processes are more likely to align with this and so produce and attract more spren of that type, another singer bonds a spren of that type, and so on. Individually it's not gonna do a lot, just like two random humans or singers are gonna have a difficult time maintaining a population, but when on a societal level everyone is bonding these spren, it's probably gonna have an effect, and the spren types will "evolve" to produce forms that are both more useful and more integrated (thus producing a stronger effect), while the singers evolve to be a more effective host for the spren, and so forth.

Of course, this was jumpstarted by Ado creating things in the form it wanted, and the timeline's not enough for normal evolutionary processes, but Roshar's apparently got sped-up evolution and spren are very conceptual things, so can probably happen a lot quicker than you'd expect ordinarily.