Argent he/him Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 The Arcanum tag system is useful, but not quite 100% polished, so there are some quirks. Let's use this thread to report them. Specifically we are looking for: Duplicate tags. Sometimes, when adding tags to an entry, you might notice that there are multiple tags that express the same concept, but are phrased or spelled slightly differently - for example, both #truthwatchers and #order of truthwatchers exist right now. This is not ideal, and it doesn't happen often, but it does happen, and we'd like to fix things like that by choosing one of these, and updating all the entries using the other one (and then deleting the obsolete tag). Tags without entries. There is no automatic system that cleans up orphaned tags (i.e. tags with no entries under them), so we have to delete those manually. This happens sometimes when we accidentally misspell a tag (which creates a tag with a bad name) or when we learn the name of a new book and have to replace the old placeholder tag with a new one (e.g. right now we need to replace #stormlight 4 with #rhythm of war). Tags with bad names. Sometimes typos and other spelling artifacts sneak into our tags (e.g. #sadeas 10 is a tag that exists now, presumably because somebody wanted to apply the #sadeas tag, and there were 10 entries with that tag, and the count got attached to the tag somehow). New tags. Regular users can no longer create new tags, so if there's a tag you think we might benefit from, let us know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staenbridge Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Woah, feels like I'm part of 17th Shard history now. Anyway, here are all of the potential duplicate/needs-decision tags which I found when I had a look: I'm not sure if this is a duplicate or mislabelling, but #rafo explanation is sometimes used in the same way as #rafo-plus, as a sort of 'explanation about why it's a RAFO/context'. Other times it's used for 'this is what RAFO means in general' WoBs. Punctuation creates a few differences: #gavilars black sphere and #gavilar's black sphere #mistborn: secret history 2 and #mistborn secret history 2 (interestingly, I can't tag entries with the former — the colon disappears whenever I try) I found a set of <tag name> <number> broken/empty tags, which I've collected in one big search here. There's 14 which were originally spread across 13 entries, so I won't list them all except in the link. Radiant orders: besides Truthwatchers, there are also 'Order of' duplicates for Edgedancers, Lightweavers, and Bondsmiths, with Willshapers having a broken duplicate in the singular. All of the other groups of Radiants only have the bare name as a tag (i.e. #windrunners, #skybreakers, #dustbringers, etc) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occo Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 #wax and wayne 4 & #the lost metal (8 entries & 32) #rhythm of war & #stormlight 4 (22 entries & 78) #dawnshard & #dawnshards (17 entries & 40); the former is mostly about the novella, though has one or two posts that could probably be migrated across—it may want to be renamed to #dawnshard novella, the way Edgedancer is listed? #harmonium & #ettmetal (2 entries & 23) #unkalaki & #horneaters (10 entries & 17) #dor & #the dor (8 entries & 30) #soulstamps & #forgery (4 entries & 61) #era 2 & #mistborn era 2 (1 entry & 70) #intent shows up as a suggestion in the search bar with 1 associated entry, but isn't actually shown on the WoB. The #intention tag (17 entries) may want to be renamed to #intent, given that's the proper term used? #era 4 shows up in the search bar, but not on any actual WoBs. #savant shows up in the search bar, but not on any actual WoBs. That's all I've caught for now—may go on another search later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanRuborn Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Duplicates: #ai & #cosmere artificial intelligence (2 entries & 5) #wax & #waxillium (5 entries & 32) #avatar & #avatars (1 entry & 6) #cognitive shadow, #cognitive shadows & #cognitive entities (1 entry, 48 & 12) #shard & #shards (10 entries & 248) Weird ones with hyphens to separate words, but keep the consistency with space instead of the hyphen: #shard-not-on-a-planet #alcatraz-earth, #reckoners-earth, #parshendi-blood & #koloss-blooded (but I think these might be fine with the hyphen though) #autism-spectrum #lopen should be #the lopen Edited July 20, 2021 by DeanRuborn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Hey all, just wanted to respond to some of these things, so that we have "official" guidance in place. 7 hours ago, Staenbridge said: I'm not sure if this is a duplicate or mislabelling, but #rafo explanation is sometimes used in the same way as #rafo-plus, as a sort of 'explanation about why it's a RAFO/context'. Other times it's used for 'this is what RAFO means in general' WoBs. That is a mislabeling. #rafo explanation is meant to be the meta around what "RAFO" means. For a wob where Brandon explains why he is RAFOing something in particular (or gives some other relevant information) #rafo-plus should be used. 7 hours ago, Staenbridge said: Punctuation creates a few differences: #gavilars black sphere and #gavilar's black sphere #mistborn: secret history 2 and #mistborn secret history 2 (interestingly, I can't tag entries with the former — the colon disappears whenever I try) These should be the ones with punctuation. If it is auto-deleting the punctuation that is a bug that needs to get fixed. (I know we've run into this before and I thought it had gotten fixed). 7 hours ago, Staenbridge said: I found a set of <tag name> <number> broken/empty tags, which I've collected in one big search here. There's 14 which were originally spread across 13 entries, so I won't list them all except in the link. Thank you for collecting these. Most, fortunately, seem to be dead tags (as in they have been fixed in the actual entries, but they still show up in the aggregated tag list and in searches). Dead tags not being deleted is a code issue that will need to be addressed. 7 hours ago, Staenbridge said: Radiant orders: besides Truthwatchers, there are also 'Order of' duplicates for Edgedancers, Lightweavers, and Bondsmiths, with Willshapers having a broken duplicate in the singular. All of the other groups of Radiants only have the bare name as a tag (i.e. #windrunners, #skybreakers, #dustbringers, etc) According to my original plan, none of these should have existed. They all should have just been #knights radiant, however it appears people really want them. Going forward they should be standardized to #order of blank. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #wax and wayne 4 & #the lost metal (8 entries & 32) #rhythm of war & #stormlight 4 (22 entries & 78) So this is an example of us not having the name for a book (or the book name not being confirmed) when we were doing the tagging. This is something we should go back update to the actual name. I believe Mestiv can mass replace this sort of thing. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #dawnshard & #dawnshards (17 entries & 40); the former is mostly about the novella, though has one or two posts that could probably be migrated across—it may want to be renamed to #dawnshard novella, the way Edgedancer is listed? I concur that it should get renamed to #dawnshard novella. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #harmonium & #ettmetal (2 entries & 23) I am 100% going to abuse my power and standardize this at #ettmetal. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #unkalaki & #horneaters (10 entries & 17) #dor & #the dor (8 entries & 30) These could really go either way. I had it as #unkalaki because that is what they refer to themselves as, but they are more often referred to as horneaters. And #the dor is because I don't like super short tags, like #dor would be (and because the dor is always referred to with the definite article). I'm interested in what people have to say for these. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #soulstamps & #forgery (4 entries & 61) #era 2 & #mistborn era 2 (1 entry & 70) These are simple, they should be the latter. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #intent shows up as a suggestion in the search bar with 1 associated entry, but isn't actually shown on the WoB. The #intention tag (17 entries) may want to be renamed to #intent, given that's the proper term used? I think I would prefer to keep #intention, especially now that Shardic intent has been canonized, because we have two related but distinct things that are given the same name in-universe. 7 hours ago, Occo said: #era 4 shows up in the search bar, but not on any actual WoBs. #savant shows up in the search bar, but not on any actual WoBs. These are dead tags. 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #ai & #cosmere artificial intelligence (2 entries & 5) #ai is actually a dead tag, so no conflict here. 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #wax & #waxillium (5 entries & 32) This is another outgrowth me not liking super short tags, I'd prefer to keep it #waxillium. 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #avatar & #avatars (1 entry & 6) #cognitive shadow, #cognitive shadows & #cognitive entities (1 entry, 48 & 12) #shard & #shards (10 entries & 248) Tags in general should be pluralized. #cognitive entities is actually not intended to be a duplicate. The idea was for a wider bucket, to include broader topics for cognitive shadows, spren, and whathaveyou. Do people think this is actually needed/helpful? 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #shard-not-on-a-planet #autism-spectrum I don't think either of these tags actually need to exist. 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #alcatraz-earth, #reckoners-earth, #parshendi-blood & #koloss-blooded (but I think these might be fine with the hyphen though) I don't really see a reason for these to change. I think they are fine. But it is always good to reassess, so thank you. 6 hours ago, DeanRuborn said: #lopen should be #the lopen Ha. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, WeiryWriter said: #shard-not-on-a-planet I don't think either of these tags actually need to exist. I think it's a good idea to keep this one; there are a few WoBs it hasn't been applied to. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/201-words-of-radiance-los-angeles-signing/#e4441 and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11415). It's often been conflated with the hide-and-survive Shard despite the WoR tour WoB, and though I happen to agree with that view, I don't believe it has officially been confirmed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwatcher Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, WeiryWriter said: I concur that it should get renamed to #dawnshard novella. In addition to what Occo flagged here, there are also five entries tagged with #wandersail and two entries tagged with #aimia novella (one overlap between those two tags, so six total) that look like they should be updated to #dawnshard novella as well. There's also a #skyward 3 tag, if you're looking to rename those sort of tags Also found some duplicates: #wan shailu and #shai (5 and 19 entries respectively) #the sibling, #sibling, and #third bondsmith spren (for me at least, #the sibling returns 4 entries with that tag plus 2 with just #sibling; #sibling returns 5 entries with that tag plus 3 of the ones with #the sibling; #third bondsmith spren returns one entry that also has #sibling and one that has neither of the first two tags) #ash and #shalash (10 and 9 entries respectively; in both cases the search result is returning one entry about her that doesn't actually have the tag searched for) Edited July 21, 2021 by Starwatcher Had some time, found some more things 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raykoda Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) *Deep breath* #Survivorism (1 tag) vs. #Church of the Survivor (5 tags) (technically maybe 2 different things, but I would clean them up together) #Thaidakar (1 tag) vs. #Kelsier (171 tags) #Way of Kings Prime (93 tags) vs. #The Way of Kings Prime (1 tag) #White Sand Vol. 2 (6 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 2 (4 tags) (Spot the difference!) #White Sand Vol. 1 (3 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 1 (3 tags) (Spot the difference!) #Parshendi (53 tags) vs. #Listeners (50 tags) (This one is a matter of philosophy, but I think if the Arcanum is supposed to be spoiler full, it should be all rolled into the preferred nomenclature. "Parshendi" is almost kind of a slur.) #Fabrial (1 tag) vs. #Fabrials (50 tags) The Thaidakar, Fabrial, tWoK prime and White Sand volume problems I think should be rolled into the more commonly known, plural, and perioid-less versions (since that's what vol 3 has). Also I personally disagree with the "Order of" prefix being attached to KR orders, and it seems like most of the users agree with me. #Windrunners at 8 with #Order of Windrunners at 1, Skybreakers 8 to 1, Edgedancers 2 to 1, e.t.c. I think taking the prefix out is much slicker. Also I realize that there's a lot to be done for the site, but this information stored away in the forums should really be on the site itself for newcomers. We are fighting an uphill battle as long as fresh good samaritans don't know what the best practices are. Edited September 12, 2021 by Raykoda finished 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Raykoda said: Also I realize that there's a lot to be done for the site, but this information stored away in the forums should really be on the site itself for newcomers. We are fighting an uphill battle as long as fresh good samaritans don't know what the best practices are. That's the plan eventually! But no ETA on this. 7 hours ago, Raykoda said: The Thaidakar, Fabrial, tWoK prime and White Sand volume problems I think should be rolled into the more commonly known, plural, and perioid-less versions (since that's what vol 3 has). Also I personally disagree with the "Order of" prefix being attached to KR orders, and it seems like most of the users agree with me. #Windrunners at 8 with #Order of Windrunners at 1, Skybreakers 8 to 1, Edgedancers 2 to 1, e.t.c. I think taking the prefix out is much slicker. Tags are managed by Arcanum staff, and so decisions like that will be done there (specifically @WeiryWriter, as the head Arcanum decision maker). Many different users may disagree on individual tagging decisions. Please note tag names and such can have an affect on search rankings, which could be a factor. I definitely agree things should be made consistent, and I appreciate you listing these problems out (though Thaidakar could be argued about, in my opinion). The lack of documentation is certainly an issue in the tag creep. I would generally recommend transcribers to not terribly worry about tagging and leave that to staff in the process of finalizing those. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raykoda Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) On 9/13/2021 at 2:25 AM, Chaos said: That's the plan eventually! But no ETA on this. Tags are managed by Arcanum staff, and so decisions like that will be done there (specifically @WeiryWriter, as the head Arcanum decision maker). Many different users may disagree on individual tagging decisions. Please note tag names and such can have an affect on search rankings, which could be a factor. I definitely agree things should be made consistent, and I appreciate you listing these problems out (though Thaidakar could be argued about, in my opinion). The lack of documentation is certainly an issue in the tag creep. I would generally recommend transcribers to not terribly worry about tagging and leave that to staff in the process of finalizing those. Fair. Just giving my two cents. Speaking of which: Here's some more nonsense: #The Dust Brigade (3) v. #Threnody Novel (26) #Nightblood Book (64) v. #Warbreaker Sequel #Hoid (527) v. #Wit (6) #Hoid's Flute (5) v. #Hoids Flute (1) (I found this one just as I was writing this) #The Bands of Mourning (8) v. #Bands of Mourning (6) v. #The Bands of Mourning Book (1) (This one's a doozy. Obviously we should have a tag for the book, and for the Feruchemical Bracers) #Wax and Wayne 4 (13) v. #Wax and Waye 4 (1) (NOT #The Lost Metal. You all got me beat there.) #Shades (27) v. #Shade (1) #Aimians (28) v. #Aimian (2) And a few more personal thoughts: We probably need a tag for Ishar's weird experiments at the end of Rhythm of War. Here's a WoB that (I think) should just be tagged with #Ishar's spren experiments or what-have-you: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/475/#e14989 Is there a tag for WoB's about which books are coming out next, or which ones Brandon is working on? There's a bunch of WoB's that would appreciate one (no receipts here, sorry). What is the guidelines when expressing pronunciation? For instance this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6737) uses IPA, which I like, but only partially, which I don't, and forgets the square brackets ([]) which technically should be required in this case, which I don't like. If the fourth Stormlight novel gets #Rhythm of War, what about the research journal Navani & Raboniel make? I'd assume this will only become a bigger problem when it will probably be brought up in the plot of later Stormlight books. Same with all of the Stormlight books. Also, there's several WoB's all weirdly about sports in the cosmere, with a few hints it'll become important, or at least existent in Era 3 Mistborn. If #Cosmere Sports dethrones #Rafo, you heard it here first!!! Edited September 28, 2021 by Raykoda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AonEne he/him in an enby way Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 Whoops, forgot this thread existed and had put these elsewhere. A few typos to be deleted, I think: one of complete, one of needsaudio, and one of finalized. Will edit if I notice any more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 Sorry for the late replies! On 7/21/2021 at 3:07 PM, Starwatcher said: In addition to what Occo flagged here, there are also five entries tagged with #wandersail and two entries tagged with #aimia novella (one overlap between those two tags, so six total) that look like they should be updated to #dawnshard novella as well. There's also a #skyward 3 tag, if you're looking to rename those sort of tags Yeah, these should all be under the final release title so #dawnshard novella and #cytonic book (to help distinguish from #cytonics the "magic systems"). On 7/21/2021 at 3:07 PM, Starwatcher said: #wan shailu and #shai (5 and 19 entries respectively) #ash and #shalash (10 and 9 entries respectively; in both cases the search result is returning one entry about her that doesn't actually have the tag searched for) So, for these I do like the longer names for both, but I'm going to make opposite rulings. #wan shailu is probably overkill (I just really like how it flows), so let's go with #shai. I definitely think it should be #shalash though, as just #ash is potentially ambiguous with stuff for Scadrial. On 7/21/2021 at 3:07 PM, Starwatcher said: #the sibling, #sibling, and #third bondsmith spren (for me at least, #the sibling returns 4 entries with that tag plus 2 with just #sibling; #sibling returns 5 entries with that tag plus 3 of the ones with #the sibling; #third bondsmith spren returns one entry that also has #sibling and one that has neither of the first two tags) By rights this should probably be #sibling. I like #the sibling but that sets certain precedents that I'm not sure I want set... On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #Survivorism (1 tag) vs. #Church of the Survivor (5 tags) (technically maybe 2 different things, but I would clean them up together) This is hard, since they do technically refer to separate things. Let's just go with #church of the survivor. On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #Thaidakar (1 tag) vs. #Kelsier (171 tags) Now that we know they are the same person, we should just use #kelsier. On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #Way of Kings Prime (93 tags) vs. #The Way of Kings Prime (1 tag) Should be #way of kings prime. On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #White Sand Vol. 2 (6 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 2 (4 tags) (Spot the difference!) #White Sand Vol. 1 (3 tags) vs. #White Sand Vol 1 (3 tags) (Spot the difference!) These were always intended to have the period, there was just a recurring bug that stripped punctuation from tags. On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #Parshendi (53 tags) vs. #Listeners (50 tags) (This one is a matter of philosophy, but I think if the Arcanum is supposed to be spoiler full, it should be all rolled into the preferred nomenclature. "Parshendi" is almost kind of a slur.) So this is an artifact from before we had the term "singer" in Oathbringer. At that point Brandon had indicated that "listener" was the species name and Parshendi was just a group of listeners. Then Brandon added singer as the species name in the actual text and screwed with everything. I agree that #parshendi should be depreciated in favor of #listeners. On 9/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, Raykoda said: #Fabrial (1 tag) vs. #Fabrials (50 tags) This sort of tag should be plural. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: #The Dust Brigade (3) v. #Threnody Novel (26) #Nightblood Book (64) v. #Warbreaker Sequel Should be the first in both cases, since we do know the true title. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: #Hoid (527) v. #Wit (6) Should just be Hoid. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: #Hoid's Flute (5) v. #Hoids Flute (1) (I found this one just as I was writing this) Should be the one with the apostrophe On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: #The Bands of Mourning (8) v. #Bands of Mourning (6) v. #The Bands of Mourning Book (1) (This one's a doozy. Obviously we should have a tag for the book, and for the Feruchemical Bracers) #Wax and Wayne 4 (13) v. #Wax and Waye 4 (1) (NOT #The Lost Metal. You all got me beat there.) Hmm, I guess the "bracers" probably do need a tag. #bands of mourning for the bracers and #the bands of mourning book for the book (just to help distinguish them from each other). And now that Lost Metal has actually been written and the title is unlikely to change, it should really be #the lost metal. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: #Shades (27) v. #Shade (1) #Aimians (28) v. #Aimian (2) As mentioned above, tags should generally be pluralized. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: We probably need a tag for Ishar's weird experiments at the end of Rhythm of War. Here's a WoB that (I think) should just be tagged with #Ishar's spren experiments or what-have-you: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/475/#e14989 I don't think this currently requires a tag. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: Is there a tag for WoB's about which books are coming out next, or which ones Brandon is working on? There's a bunch of WoB's that would appreciate one (no receipts here, sorry). Yep, #upcoming works should be used for this. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: What is the guidelines when expressing pronunciation? For instance this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6737) uses IPA, which I like, but only partially, which I don't, and forgets the square brackets ([]) which technically should be required in this case, which I don't like. We currently don't have expressed guidelines for this sort of thing. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. the problem is that while IPA is useful, not everyone is able to read/write in it. I will open this as a topic to be discussed. On 9/27/2021 at 9:03 PM, Raykoda said: If the fourth Stormlight novel gets #Rhythm of War, what about the research journal Navani & Raboniel make? I'd assume this will only become a bigger problem when it will probably be brought up in the plot of later Stormlight books. Same with all of the Stormlight books. I don't think the research journal currently needs a tag, but if at some point it becomes necessary we do have the precedent of #<book> in-world with #the way of kings in-world. On 10/1/2021 at 7:35 PM, AonEne said: Whoops, forgot this thread existed and had put these elsewhere. A few typos to be deleted, I think: one of complete, one of needsaudio, and one of finalized. Will edit if I notice any more. It looks like these were already fixed on the entries themselves, but they are still showing up. I will check with Mestiv about fixing the issue that is causing this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AonEne he/him in an enby way Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 occulators lenses and occulator's lenses both misspell Oculator - and only one of them should exist. (Assuming either should - I don't know if there's a threshold of WoBs under which a tag doesn't have enough reason to stick around.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration he/him Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 Apparently 'good question' and 'goodreads' both exist, which I'm not sure they should, but I'll leave that up to our Arcanists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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