Is El’s Name a Nickname?

[Andy92]

I know the similarities between El and the name of the Almighty that only ardents can say, Elithanathile, have been brought up before. But I’ve been wondering if the character El is named as more of a nickname. 

Elithanathile means He Who Transforms. El had his title stripped and given to Moash, which was He Who Quiets. Maybe El is short for another title that’s similar in name to Elithanathile but not the same? 

The comparison also makes me wonder what’s up with Elithanathile and the He Who Transforms title. The ardents associate this with the Almighty, but it’s just too similar to how El is named and has a similar title beginning with “He Who…” Did one of the two, humans or singers, co-opt the other one’s title system? Or is this because the name Elithanathile was the singer’s original title for Tanavast before humans arrived to Roshar with Odium? 

[Honorless he/him]

Maybe it's to show his lack of title, "El" can just mean "him", either in-world or for the reader

[Andy92]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Maybe it's to show his lack of title, "El" can just mean "him", either in-world or for the reader

That does make a lot of sense considering the titles start that way. He Who Transforms, He Who Quiets, now he’s just “He.” 

I do think it’s a bit interesting that the Fused have titles so similar to that of the ardent’s title for Honor. 

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

49 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

That does make a lot of sense considering the titles start that way. He Who Transforms, He Who Quiets, now he’s just “He.” 

I do think it’s a bit interesting that the Fused have titles so similar to that of the ardent’s title for Honor. 

Roshar has definitely had a lot of mingling of its various cultures in the past. From the Thaylen Passions clearly having an Odiumish origin, to Moash being a singer name. We've seen a lot of mixing. Perhaps Elithanathile was the Dawnsingers' way of referring to Honor, since he was their god first, before that whole Human-Singer flip flop

[Andy92]

55 minutes ago, Wyndlerunner said:

Roshar has definitely had a lot of mingling of its various cultures in the past. From the Thaylen Passions clearly having an Odiumish origin, to Moash being a singer name. We've seen a lot of mixing. Perhaps Elithanathile was the Dawnsingers' way of referring to Honor, since he was their god first, before that whole Human-Singer flip flop

That was one of my thoughts, that it was their name for Honor before the humans arrived with Odium and they eventually switched. The name might have stuck in lore for the humans over the years. 

[teknopathetic he/him]

I had asked if the Nahel bond was named after "El"

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by teknopathetic

[Andy92]

3 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I had asked if the Nahel bond was named after "El"

 

 

It definitely seems to be one of those common roots within the language like Ado. I think it’s possible Vyre is the common tongue name for the title and there’s another symmetrical word similar to Elithanathile that means He Who Quiets. 

[Weltall]

The confirmation that El and Nahel have the same root is pretty handy, since we know that the latter means 'the bond to divinity'. It's probably a safe assumption that the article and particle there are implicit rather than explicit, and since El is a Semitic word meaning 'God' or 'Deity' that it's also the part of Elithanathile that translates to 'He' in the capitalized sense used in religious texts. Hence, El's name basically means 'God'. I'm guessing that's something he was assigned after... whatever it was that got him stripped of the Rhythms and his old title, since I have a hard time imagining anyone making their child, literally, God.

Side note, Brandon also used 'Ihel' as a word in WoK Prime, though per the quoted WoB he doesn't remember what meaning he assigned to Nahel so he probably doesn't remember Ihel either. Still, it's clearly derived from the same root and probably had some meaning related to divinity as well.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

I might point out Elend, but I know it is wrong, but what if Elend is a popular name on Scadrial? what if El is an undercover agent for Odium on other planets, like his secret assassin.

[+asmodeus]

Hmmmmmmmmm.

So to summarize, at this point, we have:

• Nahel/Lhel : Bond to Divinity/?
• Elithinathile: He who transforms
• Raboniel/Hariel: Lady of Pains or Wishes/?

and then we have El, who use to also be Vyre (He who quiets).

Edited June 12, 2021 by asmodeus