Echa Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: But it doesn’t fit the timing of when Taln broke allegedly (end of WoK) Because Ishar was already crazy then Although there is a ton of weird stuff about Taln breaking I feel like since Ishar was the one to write the Oathpact, when it was broken it might have broken him too. That might be me just wanting to connect dots that aren't there, though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden he/him Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Echa said: I feel like since Ishar was the one to write the Oathpact, when it was broken it might have broken him too. That might be me just wanting to connect dots that aren't there, though. That would make a-lot of sense! If I’m understanding you correctly your saying that the more your Connected to the Oathpact the more it’s ‘breaking’ affected you This would really explain the different variations of madness among the Heralds And as Taln was the sole bearer for a while he would really be affected upon breaking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echa Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 @Bejardin1250 Exactly! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Alm81 he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: That would make a-lot of sense! If I’m understanding you correctly your saying that the more your Connected to the Oathpact the more it’s ‘breaking’ affected you This would really explain the different variations of madness among the Heralds And as Taln was the sole bearer for a while he would really be affected upon breaking Agreed, plus the 4000 years of torture can do that. I don’t really recall but does Jezrien, Ahu, become madder in between the scenes we meet him in till Moash you know what? Or is he the same level of madness from the beginning? Edited March 17, 2021 by Omar Alm81 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 34 minutes ago, Omar Alm81 said: Agreed, plus the 4000 years of torture can do that. I don’t really recall but does Jezrien, Ahu, become madder in between the scenes we meet him in till Moash you know what? Or is he the same level of madness from the beginning? Seemed about the same during the modern day. He is at the treaty signing, drunk and rambling, he says "have you seen me?" to Szeth during WoK prologue. In WoR Lift Interlude Nale refers to Jezrien and says "if he ever stops drooling". The earliest we see him is in an OB flashback when Dalinar drinks with him near the beggar's feast and he's drunk, rambling. He'd been really far gone for a while. 4,500 years is a long time, I don't think he changed much recently. I think the thousands of years of torture and war plus the 4,500 of feeling guilty over abandoning Taln did most of the damage. Their nature as cognitive shadows is making their madness more magical and specific to their attributes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 23 hours ago, Echa said: "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me." When I read this at first I kinda thought it referred to the Unmade (cause 9) but then I remembered the first prologue in WoK. I'm pretty sure this is in reference to Taln, after the "Final" Desolation. It's still a little bit of foreshadowing because of "carry the madness of them all". It foreshadows the Heralds all being insane. That may also to the Nine governing the Fused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echa Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: That may also to the Nine governing the Fused. But why would the Nine or the Fused be begging for the Almighty to release them? The whole Death Rattle is in first person. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, Echa said: But why would the Nine or the Fused be begging for the Almighty to release them? The whole Death Rattle is in first person. They wouldn't. But the moribund Rosharan overcome by a vision would. The visions are always changed by the person speaking them. Otherwise they would be in the Dawnchant and unintelligible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Alm81 he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: Seemed about the same during the modern day. He is at the treaty signing, drunk and rambling, he says "have you seen me?" to Szeth during WoK prologue. In WoR Lift Interlude Nale refers to Jezrien and says "if he ever stops drooling". The earliest we see him is in an OB flashback when Dalinar drinks with him near the beggar's feast and he's drunk, rambling. He'd been really far gone for a while. 4,500 years is a long time, I don't think he changed much recently. I think the thousands of years of torture and war plus the 4,500 of feeling guilty over abandoning Taln did most of the damage. Their nature as cognitive shadows is making their madness more magical and specific to their attributes. Thanks, I was racking my brain trying to remember if he had some lucid moments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba-Ado-Fisherman Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 3:38 PM, Bejardin1250 said: RoW spoilers “So the night will reign because the choice of honor is life...” (WoK 916) My guess is this refers to the champions duel in SA 5 Its Kaladin ( yes even though Dalinar said he wouldn’t)VS Gavinor And Kaladin refuses to kill Gavinor because the choice of honor is life which lets Odium reign ( he’s called the night of sorrows) Also supported by “ I hold a suckling child in my hands...” death rattle And then Kaladin acends to Honor Wouldn't Kaladin's baby brother make more sense than Gavinor? I forget his name, but it's said that it means "child of peace". I always thought that would come back in some way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba-Ado-Fisherman Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 I don't think Brandon's gonna make Odium's champion a child... I know it's a popular theory, but it would be pretty lame imo. Also, I feel like the champion will have to consent to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said: I don't think Brandon's gonna make Odium's champion a child... I know it's a popular theory, but it would be pretty lame imo. Also, I feel like the champion will have to consent to it. Well, then pick a pregnant woman with a huge belly. Nasty, I know, but that is kind of the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejarden he/him Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said: Wouldn't Kaladin's baby brother make more sense than Gavinor? I forget his name, but it's said that it means "child of peace". I always thought that would come back in some way. Oroden I believe Yes but Gavinor would be a fun way to turn someone Dalinar loves against him. Also there can be a way to pin Elhokars death on Dalinar. I’m sure Taravangian can find a way which would turn Gavinor to the ‘dark side’ And Oraden is a little young for it he’s like 3 But the essence of the theory is someone that Dalinar won’t kill so he would technically work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light In the Darkness Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 On 3/16/2021 at 7:23 AM, Omar Alm81 said: Quote The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather! Might this be the end of book 5? Has there been any Desolation where Odium's forces "take the day"? I find the Rattles fascinating, it's like hey do you want some straight up foreshadowing? Well, here you go, have fun. I think that is more from Oathbringer, with the army turning and Dalinar refusing to give up his pain, and all of the stormlight used up on the battlefield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procrastination she/her Posted March 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) On 3/17/2021 at 3:35 PM, Bejardin1250 said: Oroden I believe Yes but Gavinor would be a fun way to turn someone Dalinar loves against him. Also there can be a way to pin Elhokars death on Dalinar. I’m sure Taravangian can find a way which would turn Gavinor to the ‘dark side’ And Oraden is a little young for it he’s like 3 But the essence of the theory is someone that Dalinar won’t kill so he would technically work I agree with you. I don’t think Oroden would do it, because that person needs to be willing, but Gavinor has already showed that he is motivated by vengeance for his father, like in RoW, when talking to Navini about learning how to fight. He says, Quote “I could find the man who killed my father. And I could kill him.” If Gavinor was persuaded that Dalinar was the reason his father died, he could easily become Odium’s champion. Some people have also theorized that it could be Gavilar vs. Dalinar, and they point to the “I’m standing over the body of a brother. I’m weeping. Is this his blood or mine? What have we done?” Death Rattle. (I think that’s what it says. I try and type these quotes from memory.) I think this is a bit of a stretch, but plausible. After all, dead people don’t always stay dead in Brandon’s books. Spoiler I’m looking at you, Kelsier. Or should I say Thaidakar? Anyways, I almost think it’s neither, simply because we’ve thought of it. (That’s what happens when you read too many Brandon Sanderson books ) ...(wow this topic is so dead)... Edited May 6, 2021 by rosharian_cat To find truth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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