Why was kaladin made cosmere aware? (And dalinars fate?)

[Valigus]

Everyone seems to be betting that shallan may become a world hopper but what about kaladin? He was specifically told about other world any zahel and more interestingly had cognitive shadows explained to him.

Or perhaps a better question why was kaladin made cosmere aware? Like what is the plot reason what role does it serve?

A few reasons I can think of that this needed to happen.

1. so kaladin can understand how cognitive shadows work which was sorta relevant for fighting the pursuer. Then so he can later help ishar with his mental health. 

this is possible but idk seems kinda like there wouldn’t have also been a need to tell him about other worlds and have him fight a Dude from a different magic system.

2. He goes world hopping for some reason. But why would he do that? I think it would have to do with dalinars fate.

so what will happen to dalinar at the end of the book we have a few options rn that seem clear.

A. Dalinar is just fine on roshar as a mortal

in this situation kaladin does not need to world hop

B. dalinar ascends to honor

i think dalinar may want to send someone out into the cosmere to maybe counte odium or explore or deal with other threats. Kaladin would be the ideal choice narratively. Presumably by the end of the 5th book kaladin will be 5th ideal quite possibly at the end of his character arc and I think not dead. On top of this kaladin is insanely op his combat feats are so insane that it’s almost counter productive to tension for him to be around, now he could take dalinars place in a leadership role or he could die or he could become a therapist but none of those work, since rn nothing prevents dalinar from leading since he doesn’t seem likely to straight up die, I don’t think he will die and even if he isn’t a soldier anymore he loves the fight far too much to just become a therapist full time. But generally because of kaladins high power level and drive to protect and the fact he likely won’t sit on the sidelines in most likely situations I think he woudl leave in this scenario as dalinars representative/ envoy.

C. dalinar becomes a fused

In this situation I think dalinar forces kaladin to swear to stop him when he becomes a fused and basically kaladin goes around the cosmere following dalinar being kinda like hoid and making sure dalinar is defeated every time odium tries to use him to screw stuff up.

I know a lot of people have been wanting kaladin to maybe become a professional counselor but I think as a lot of people point out to him in the book he can’t give up the fight he loves it too much he just can’t take the stress of war and the battlefield anymore.

he has also been talked to by hoid more than any other character we have seen (excluding jasnah but i mean as in like compelled to show up there to help out) which I think Indicates his importance. Honestly it would be kinda awesome if kaladin and syl go around the cosmere like in these theories and basically act like a second hoid Show up and talk to people about their problems then like drive dalinar off or do what honor needs done then leave. Plus he has the flute so maybe.

also kaladin is hands down the most naturally skilled person in the cosmere when it comes to combat

Edited February 15, 2021 by Valigus

[Honorless he/him]

 

Quote

 

Why was kaladin made cosmere aware?

Was he? He was told a lot of things repeatedly by a lot of Worldhoppers but he didn't really connect the dots, He didn't seem to get it 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Honorless

[Valigus]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

 

Was he? He was told a lot of things repeatedly by a lot of Worldhoppers but he didn't really connect the dots, He didn't seem to get it 

He definitely got it with vasher, vasher sat him down and went I’m from another world I’m like the fused.

he does know about the cosmere.

[Bejarden he/him]

The entire time he talks with Zahel he says “ I don’t know what any of that means.”

And adolin always is saying he is very singleminded and doesn’t take in extraneous information 

So no I do not think he is cosmere aware

[Draigwyrdd]

I think narratively, the purpose of Kaladin learning things from Zahel was so that the reader (who may not have read any other Cosmere works) learns the relevant things, not necessarily for Kaladin to do so. He takes something away, but I think it's more for the reader than Kaladin.

[Bejarden he/him]

7 minutes ago, Draigwyrdd said:

I think narratively, the purpose of Kaladin learning things from Zahel was so that the reader (who may not have read any other Cosmere works) learns the relevant things, not necessarily for Kaladin to do so. He takes something away, but I think it's more for the reader than Kaladin.

Yes that was the impression I got

[+Harrycrapper]

At the very least, Kaladin wasn't really focused on the strange things Vasher did and talked about. He seemed to be more concentrated on his psychological issues and how he's supposed to move forward. I'm getting close to finishing OB and getting to my first re-read of RoW, so I might come back with a more informed perspective on this scene. But, that's the feeling I got when I first read the chapter when they were doing previews. 

[Honorless he/him]

6 hours ago, Valigus said:

He definitely got it with vasher, vasher sat him down and went I’m from another world I’m like the fused.

he does know about the cosmere.

Um, not really? Even much later, with Hoid, when he was telling him the story of the dragon and the dog, he wondered if it was set in Shinovar.

[Gyirin]

Kaladin feels like a character who's tied to Stormlight Archive, his story beginning and ending in it. 

[Honorless he/him]

5 minutes ago, Gyirin said:

Kaladin feels like a character who's tied to Stormlight Archive, his story beginning and ending in it. 

Yeah

Shallan, on the other hand...

She's Cosmere-aware now. Knows of other Shardworlds, other magics, that travel between them is possible, has expressed interest in it too and has made a deal with Kalak to study off-world stuff.

Jasnah is also Cosmere-aware, courtesy of Hoid, as is Navani now, thanks to Raboniel.

Kaladin and Adolin, not so much. If the Vorin had a better attitude towards education, they'd have definitely figured stuff out by now, they're more than smart enough but they're not consolidating what they've been told. I was very frustrated by that.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Honorless

[Gyirin]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Kaladin and Adolin, not so much. 

I think Adolin learned basic things like there being other planets and people and magic by the end of Rhythm of War. He was with Shallan when she challenged Ghostbloods and told her they're in this together. I don't think Shallan wouldn't have told Adolin about the Ghostbloods being off-world organization. And stuff she learned from Kalak. He's now involved in inter-planetary business with his wife so I think he'd probably gain more knowledge of the wider Cosmere. 

[mathiau he/him]

4 hours ago, Gyirin said:

I think Adolin learned basic things like there being other planets and people and magic by the end of Rhythm of War. He was with Shallan when she challenged Ghostbloods and told her they're in this together. I don't think Shallan wouldn't have told Adolin about the Ghostbloods being off-world organization. And stuff she learned from Kalak. He's now involved in inter-planetary business with his wife so I think he'd probably gain more knowledge of the wider Cosmere. 

Also, if Shallan go offworld there's literally no way he's not going with her

[cometaryorbit]

23 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Yes that was the impression I got

Me too - it's not just that Kaladin was focused on other things, but I am not really sure that he has the background to understand what Zahel/Vasher was talking about.

Vasher did say he was from a different world but Kaladin likely is thinking that means something more like Shadesmar than another planet - does Kaladin even know Roshar is a spherical planet? Is that common knowledge for the Alethi?

Certainly the discussion of being from an older vs younger world would be way outside his scope - I don't think that Rosharans could have any way of developing geology as we know it, given how messed up their continent is.

[Draigwyrdd]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Certainly the discussion of being from an older vs younger world would be way outside his scope - I don't think that Rosharans could have any way of developing geology as we know it, given how messed up their continent is.

Right? Their continent gets eroded and recreated by the cycle of highstorms over and over and over again. I wonder if they've noticed? One assumes no, given the timescales involved.

Do they even have plate tectonics? Like what's going on with Roshar's core?

[mathiau he/him]

10 hours ago, Draigwyrdd said:

Do they even have plate tectonics? Like what's going on with Roshar's core?

They don't. And still they have a magnetic field.

Edited February 17, 2021 by mathiau

[TheCruelSadist he/him]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to consider it, but I'd wager Kal ends up taking Jezrien's place.  The biggest reason why?  Reread the series so far and keep track of the number of times someone tells him he's "only human," or something to that effect (IIRC, at one point someone straight up tells him he's not a Herald).  That's it, that's my main argument   Seriously, though, the dude's character arc is literally "man learns how to live with the psychological pain of endless fighting and knowing that everyone he loves will eventually die, but he has to keep living."

That said, there are a few things that make it seem less far-fetched than when I first considered it, and this very question is one of them.

[cometaryorbit]

2 hours ago, Draigwyrdd said:

Right? Their continent gets eroded and recreated by the cycle of highstorms over and over and over again. I wonder if they've noticed? One assumes no, given the timescales involved.

I don't think it happens fast enough to be obvious, but weren't there references to ruins being buried in crem? If so, scholars might have some idea... but it wouldn't tell them anything about how geology works on a sane planet!

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

tThey don't. And still they have a magnetic field.

I'm not sure if anyone really knows what is going on with that even in RL... I've seen somewhat-contradictory explanations for the lack of plate tectonics on Venus...