The darkest possibilities the Cosmere could have taken

[Ixthos]

Imagine if, on Scadrial, Ruin had won, and the Inquisitors and Koloss were unleashed across the Cosmere. Preservation splintered and Ruin freed from the system, but the magic still remaining.

Imagine if, on Roshar, Odium succeeded and Dalinar became the leader of the Fused. Odium unleashed, Honour and Cultivation dead and their spren turned to Odium's side.

Imagine if Elantris had fallen, and all of Sel eventually was ruled by a single empire, lead by someone such as Wyrn, all the regions united into a single nation or a few strong nations able to travel the Cosmere and laying power lines like the Iree fortress made use of to access power further away.

Imagine if Taldain, Threnody, and others had their emperors, splinters, dark forces, released, and Endowment was determined to bring the other shards into line.

Consider the armies, all villains, fighting one another for the Cosmere, and imagine, due to whatever factors could slow some down or speed them up caused these events happened at the same time. Avatars of Autonomy fighting Ruin fighting Odium fighting Endowment fighting the remains of Ambition (and possibly Mercy). And presumably the shards already know, just as Harmony knew of the radio before one was in theory built, how to make fabrial weapons and advanced real world weapons.

We don't know all the other remaining worlds and organisations, but considering these possibilities, it certainly is chilling. Shards fighting shards and remnants of shards, magic against magic, weapons used.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Ixthos

[mathiau]

The Shard In Hiding: Well, sounds like I made the right call.

 

 

@AonEne if you're ever out of rp ideas...

Edited February 7, 2021 by mathiau

[danex]

I want to read this so bad.

Someone needs to write the DarkCosmere™️ canon right now. 

[Ixthos]

11 hours ago, mathiau said:

The Shard In Hiding: Well, sounds like I made the right call.

 

 

@AonEne if you're ever out of rp ideas...

Indeed! :-D

 

3 hours ago, Dannex said:

I want to read this so bad.

Someone needs to write the DarkCosmere™️ canon right now. 

It would certainly be a fun read! The characters might disagree though!

[AonEne]

16 hours ago, mathiau said:

The Shard In Hiding: Well, sounds like I made the right call.

@AonEne if you're ever out of rp ideas...

lol never

[Valigus]

Well I think then odium would inevitably win, unless everyone teamed up on him. He has a shard kill list longer then anyone else. He would have the most experienced best trained army in the cosmere led by the best general and one of the top 5 best fighters we have ever seen only people I’d maybe bet on vs the blackthorn are szeth and kaladin, without shards then denth or vin as well, anyone else stands no chance he is a force of nature more then a man. If we put it all out.

ruin has- 

inquisitors

thats basically all he got he just destroyed his only planet and splintered preservation

odium will go for him immediately and splinter him.

Sel- 

I don’t know enough for this

all these places with splinters aren’t gonna be great since they are separated tiny bits of power.

Autonomy will lose since without allies they have little hope vs odium

but odium- 

has the most powerful form of magic we have seen.

potentially radiants.

could potentially put allies as honor and cultivation and have 2 shards at his back then force deals of compliance on them individually. 

has veteran warriors 7000 years of experience 

best generals

Most experienced and best trained troops we have seen in the cosmere all used to fighting supernatural enemies

most of the top fighters in the cosmere live on roshar like let’s say top five no real order (heralds we haven’t seen much but from what we have kaladin, dalinar and szeth probably count as mid to low level heralds the display from ishar isn’t particularly more impressive then anything we have seen kaladin, dalinar or szeth do. Though nale who I think is likely a more martial herald is clearly better then szeth if I had to be i would say it’s probably with heralds for top 10

Vasher, kaladin, szeth, heralds, dalinar

1. Taln- this is non negotiable he is the best fighter in the cosmere by all indications nale a likely above average herald beats one of the best mortal fighters in the cosmere because kaladin, szeth and dalinar are all likely equals in practice and everyone loves vin but her most impressive feats aren’t any better then a well trained dude in shardplate. While those three have feats that are of an entirely different level to those seen else wear in the cosmere.

2-4. The above average heralds id bet in chanarach, jezrian and nale (certainly him)take this spot.

5- kaladin- beats szeth and has more impressive feats not counting nightblood. Kaladin also has 0 question the best combat feats in the cosmere for a mortal hands down though we don’t know for sure about how normal of a mortal he is with his weird side powers he occasionally gets and the son of tan avast thing.

6. szeth- kaladins equal but feats place him a bit lower

7. dalinar- knows he couldn’t beat szeth this is without powers but still

8. good fused and average- bad heralds

9. vin

10. Vasher/denth/arsteel/adolin 

basivally odium would have the best of the best of the best especially if he made honor a puppet.

[Ixthos]

@Valigus don't forget that Ruin has hemalurgy and can steal and combine powers and even native abilities of different beings to form new abilities and species. Ruin could make new beings like Kandra, or entirely new species, and possibly gain access to the metals of other shards - imagine Inquisitors with access to the Dor AND to Surges, and hybrid Parshendi-hemalurgic constructs, along with Kandra infiltrators. Also, as an idea, Ruin likely would be more effective at splintering a shard than Odium as it is the very idea of splintering.

[Valigus]

Just now, Ixthos said:

@Valigus don't forget that Ruin has hemalurgy and can steal and combine powers and even native abilities of different beings to form new abilities and species. Ruin could make new beings like Kandra, or entirely new species, and possibly gain access to the metals of other shards - imagine Inquisitors with access to the Dor AND to Surges, and hybrid Parshendi-hemalurgic constructs, along with Kandra infiltrators. Also, as an idea, Ruin likely would be more effective at splintering a shard than Odium as it is the very idea of splintering.

Even with this he still just destroyed the planet with all of his resources, odium has the best record of splintering shards period ruin maybe theoretically but the only person who seems to have done it is odium which means he likely woudl win the that fight, plus the guy was ruthless it would be odium vs a shard who just destroyed his planet and has no resources odium woudl beline to him bad kill him he would have no way to stop him and on top of this nodboy is gonna help ruin he is ruin.

[Ixthos]

2 minutes ago, Valigus said:

Even with this he still just destroyed the planet with all of his resources, odium has the best record of splintering shards period ruin maybe theoretically but the only person who seems to have done it is odium which means he likely woudl win the that fight, plus the guy was ruthless it would be odium vs a shard who just destroyed his planet and has no resources odium woudl beline to him bad kill him he would have no way to stop him and on top of this nodboy is gonna help ruin he is ruin.

This goes into what I have been thinking before, but I think Scadrial was built with a purpose to allow the magics on it to exist. What Ruin planned to do when he left Scadrial after destroying it we can't know for sure, but he was certainly looking towards the rest of the Cosmere, and he made the Inquisitors for a reason - he didn't need them to help destroy Scadrial, so why make them? Ruin likely was preparing them to assist him in taking over other worlds to destroy them, and using Hemalurgy - including giving Marsh the power to store youth, not just the allomantic power of atium but actually to continue living a longer life, which wouldn't make sense if he didn't intend for them to be a force he could use for centuries - to assimilate the magic and life on another world to form an army. Ruin can choose a planet, sent all his resources there, devour it and turn its magic and people into more tools, and then move on.

Odium I think requires the power of two shards to destroy another, using the dissonence between them. Odium has also been wounded by killing shards. If Ruin killed Preservation, Odium would find it more difficult to kill Ruin, who would be free from a planet and so have access to much more power than Odium, and with Odium's own wounds and Ruins power over the very concept of destruction, I think Ruin would actually have an edge.

[Valigus]

Just now, Ixthos said:

This goes into what I have been thinking before, but I think Scadrial was built with a purpose to allow the magics on it to exist. What Ruin planned to do when he left Scadrial after destroying it we can't know for sure, but he was certainly looking towards the rest of the Cosmere, and he made the Inquisitors for a reason - he didn't need them to help destroy Scadrial, so why make them? Ruin likely was preparing them to assist him in taking over other worlds to destroy them, and using Hemalurgy - including giving Marsh the power to store youth, not just the allomantic power of atium but actually to continue living a longer life, which wouldn't make sense if he didn't intend for them to be a force he could use for centuries - to assimilate the magic and life on another world to form an army. Ruin can choose a planet, sent all his resources there, devour it and turn its magic and people into more tools, and then move on.

Odium I think requires the power of two shards to destroy another, using the dissonence between them. Odium has also been wounded by killing shards. If Ruin killed Preservation, Odium would find it more difficult to kill Ruin, who would be free from a planet and so have access to much more power than Odium, and with Odium's own wounds and Ruins power over the very concept of destruction, I think Ruin would actually have an edge.

But ruin didn’t make them odium also has acess to two more shards he could probably create puppet shards out of honor and cultivation in this worst timeline. Even if ruins intent would give him an edge odium is far more skilled and experienced seemingly in the shattering of shards. Plus if we are comparing the secondary forces at their disposal then neither ruin nor any shard except maybe autonomy holds a candle to the military might of roshar.

[Ixthos]

1 minute ago, Valigus said:

But ruin didn’t make them odium also has acess to two more shards he could probably create puppet shards out of honor and cultivation in this worst timeline. Even if ruins intent would give him an edge odium is far more skilled and experienced seemingly in the shattering of shards. Plus if we are comparing the secondary forces at their disposal then neither ruin nor any shard except maybe autonomy holds a candle to the military might of roshar.

Perhaps. This mainly is to show the idea that Ruin wouldn't be too easy to destroy, that Odium doesn't automatically win. Those are good points though.

[Valigus]

48 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

Perhaps. This mainly is to show the idea that Ruin wouldn't be too easy to destroy, that Odium doesn't automatically win. Those are good points though.

Yeah that’s fair ruin would not lose easy or automatically but an unsupported resourceless shard would be easy pickings for odium compared to many others, he could let him rampage among the other shards until they team up on him but then odium risks ruin and the others learning and becoming proficient in the shattering of shards at which point odium may struggle. Odiums biggest advantage goes away with time so he wants to strike hard and fast. Ruin however has almsot no chance of winning because his intent will often leave himself without the same resources as others. So he likely will not win, the best chance vs odium is autonomy because autonomy has spread their influence widely. 
odium vs autonomy is. Basically a clsssic example of a wide vs tall strategy odium has gone tall he has the single most powerful system we know of magically and militarily but his influence is really limited to that so while these forces could easily overwhelm any single planet or system controlled by autonomy autonomy outnumbers them. Additionally odium has kept his splintering of power to a minimum while autonomy has split a lot in fact head to head their may not be enough of autonomy to take odium even a little bit but it means where odium isn’t an avatar of autonomy can be. So the question is which strategy is more effective and I think it largely depends on 1. Who other shards attack 

2. how easily odium kills autonomy avatars 

because it could either end up with autonomy kiting odium around the cosmere in a war of attrition attacking with avatars where odium isn’t and stuff or odium hunting down autonomy avatars killing them and hoping form world to world burning them or the ground as he goes. 

[mathiau]

8 hours ago, Valigus said:

Autonomy will lose since without allies they have little hope vs odium

Autonomy literally passed the last hundred of millennia creating a whole pantheon of allies^^

I think you're underestimating how hard it's for a Shard to splinter another, on Scadrial just killing the vessel allowed the other to kill you. Against both Ambition and DnD Odium had help, respectively Mercy and Autonomy, and against DnD he was wounded deeply enough to become known as the Broken One in some death rattles

[Frustration]

21 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I think you're underestimating how hard it's for a Shard to splinter another, on Scadrial just killing the vessel allowed the other to kill you. Against both Ambition and DnD Odium had help, respectively Mercy and Autonomy, and against DnD he was wounded deeply enough to become known as the Broken One in some death rattles

[Citation needed]

[mathiau]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

[Citation needed]

It's not as clear cut as I remembered

Quote

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016)

And I can't seems to find confirmation that Mercy helped Odium, still

Quote

Khyrindor

Odium seems to have a bad track record when it comes to killing Shards. He was wounded versus Ambition, and he's trapped on Roshar. Yet, he's credited in killing Devotion and Dominion. My question is: was Autonomy significantly involved and would Odium have been able to do it on his own and still be okay to--

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. It is dangerous to attack a Shard with one Shard. Let's say that. And a wise Shard would try to avoid that confrontation unless there are specific reasons they think they would have an advantage.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

So she certainly was not against him and the three of them clashed

 

Completely unrelated but I found that

Spoiler

Chaos

So Aona is a synonym for love, hmm? Is Charity the correct Shard name?

Brandon Sanderson

Not quite. I’m trying to remember what the guesses were for the other Shard on Sel. I may have dismissed them too quickly.

Chaos

How about Mercy for Aona, then? The guesses for Skai’s Shard include Devotion, Obedience, and Order

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, I was right, then. Ha There’s something very ironic in all of this.

General Twitter 2011 (Jan. 1, 2011)

[danex]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

[Citation needed]

Spoiler

Hey that’s my thing! 

 

[ScadrianTank]

One of the funniest things I can imagine is Ruin Investing in Roshar and the Highstorm gradually destroying the planet.

[Valigus]

12 hours ago, mathiau said:

Autonomy literally passed the last hundred of millennia creating a whole pantheon of allies^^

I think you're underestimating how hard it's for a Shard to splinter another, on Scadrial just killing the vessel allowed the other to kill you. Against both Ambition and DnD Odium had help, respectively Mercy and Autonomy, and against DnD he was wounded deeply enough to become known as the Broken One in some death rattles

Scadrial is a special case they are complete opposites, but he still managed to do it I think it wouldn’t be very difficult for him to eliminate splinters of A shard, autonomy has

more secondary forces then odium but odiuks are of a far higher quality as well.

[Halyo_Alex]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:39 PM, mathiau said:

Chaos

So Aona is a synonym for love, hmm? Is Charity the correct Shard name?

Brandon Sanderson

Not quite. I’m trying to remember what the guesses were for the other Shard on Sel. I may have dismissed them too quickly.

Chaos

How about Mercy for Aona, then? The guesses for Skai’s Shard include Devotion, Obedience, and Order

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, I was right, then. Ha. There’s something very ironic in all of this.

Mfw Chaos guessed an actual Shard Intent a decade before it was revealed, for the completely wrong Vessel.

Very ironic indeed, Brandon. Even the guess of Skai's Shard being Devotion instead doesn't quite stack up imo.

[Ixthos]

Sorry about not posting here for the past few days. A few points to consider:

• Ruin wouldn't need a base to function from if he sent all his forces to attack weaker worlds first - his constructs don't function well when left alone to try and maintain themselves as they tend to wear themselves down rather than build themselves up, and work best when sent to claim new areas. Also, remember that loses can be restored by harvesting fallen Koloss and Inquisitor spikes to use on new species. Ruin would work best not functioning from a single base.
• Ruin might be able to take control of others with cracks in their souls, and so might be able to interfere with Fused and Knights, while it isn't clear if other shards can do this
• Odium has never made other shards into vassals, instead breaking them and occasionally turning their spren to his side, and even then it is dubious is they are on his side, as the Unmade have shown.
• Odium hasn't been able to recover from destroying shards, getting weaker and weaker, as Rayse, and Taravangian doesn't have a lot of experience in that regard, any more than Kelsier and Vin were experienced with the shard Preservation. Sazed gained his knowledge from the copperminds, so while Taravangian would be able to learn, his lack of experience, or Rayse's own wounds (and if I am right and Rayse requires pitting two shards against one another to win in a fight, hence why Cultivation hasn't been destroyed yet) means fighting Ruin, the shard with control over the concept of Destruction, just as Honour had power over - and used that power against Odium - the concept of bonds, means Ruin is more likely to be able to resist Odium's attempts to apply his own power to himself. So it is like someone who has a lot of passion and filled with hatred who has just taken down four people and hasn't been able to recover, and then having to fight someone who is fresh, in this example having killed their arch enemy, and is just as passionate as you are while also being much more skilled at breaking things, or fighting someone filled with hatred and very intelligent, but who is inexperienced, fighting the previous example.
• The Avatars of Autonomy haven't been shown to be less powerful than a combined shard, so it could be that each avatar is equal in power to a whole shard, just as it could be each only has a fraction of that power, though see next observation
• Harmony is having to apply a lot of power to keep out Trell, whatever Trell is. Therefore, as noted by Harmony is the letters in Rhythm of War, a combined shard isn't necessarily more powerful than a single shard or an Avatar, only the combined shard can use the tricks of the component shards, such as Harmony being able to do what both Ruin - speak - and Preservation - listen - can do, but also bound to obey their natures as well.

[Valigus]

New one- kaladin and dalinar fall to odium and go take over the cosmere- I mean seriously who is gonna stop them they are like the two most dangerous people evrr

[mathiau]

56 minutes ago, Valigus said:

New one- kaladin and dalinar fall to odium and go take over the cosmere- I mean seriously who is gonna stop them they are like the two most dangerous people evrr

Their less dangerous than a Fullborn or a 10th heightening awakener

[Valigus]

4 hours ago, mathiau said:

Their less dangerous than a Fullborn or a 10th heightening awakener

If they were both fused and buffed a ton by odium I don’t think they would be, in terms of natural ability they outclass anyone else in the cosmere but vin maybe and if you put them on a power plain with those they could probably beat all comers

(also I’m not convinced that’s true bondmsitsh are super op and with the surgebinding rules falling apart windrunners may get op connection powers too)

(Also plate and blade op and I don’t think an awakened would do very well against a windrunner going all out unless they were like zahel(a lot of knowledge and prep time)

Edited June 6, 2021 by Valigus