Brandon WoB Command vs Intent [Discuss]

[+Child of Hodor]

With Brandon's appearance on Shardcast he tried to explain in general terms what the difference is between Intent and Command. Eric asked about both Dawnshard and Warbreaker because Vasher talks of them differently.  I wanted to put the Dawnshard text and his explanation side by side.

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Intent encompasses more understanding. Command is specifically narrow .. a lot of times these things are gonna be conflated because they basically can be. If Vasher makes an awakened thing and says "go get me those keys" the Intent is .."I need the keys to get out of here" "I want to be free". The Command is "Go fetch keys" Those are two different things, but they are working towards the same goal. In Cosmere terms it is important that the Intent is understood even if sometimes the words that can speak them are clunky and smaller in scale by nature then the Intent. 

1:06:50 of https://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-ft-brandon-rhythm-of-war-and-cosmere-spoilers-r691/

 

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"Mere words cannot explain. The Dawnshards are Commands, Rysn. The will of a god." .. The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding." ... "All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no person could ever manage alone. To make such Commands one must have the reasoning - the breadth of understanding - of a deity. And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things."  - Dawnshard Ch. 19 

I feel like Intent is more the will of the god, it's the want or desire behind the Command. The Command is a more the specific action word. Command is like an expression of the will.  CHANGE

Most people took the mural having 4 groups of 4 to mean the Dawnshards are essentially the 4 categories of the shards and that may be the case. It is harder to square them being 4 broad categories that 4 Intents fit into with these Commands being inherently more narrow than any one Intent. 

That said Brandon is explaining this off the cuff and he's giving Warbreaker examples rather than talking Dawnshard vs Shard specifically although you'd think they'd be similar. 

 

[Malim he/him]

It could fit.  Take the Change command from the Dawnshard.  I can see at least four different broad intents behind this.

1:  Change Yourself.  This could be physical, mental, spiritual, or some combination.  Note an Intent to change yourself for the worse would still fit the command.  Maybe Honor?

2:  Change Others.  Same as above, but focused on a different individual than yourself.  Domination?

3:  Change the World.  Work to change the entire Shardworld into something else.  Interestingly, this could apply to Odium, as that Shard wants to remake Roshar into a new form.

4:  Change.  It's purest Intent.  Growth, aging, evolution.  Cultivation?

Just my two cents.  The Shards of course are complete guesses, and I know that there are others here who could make better ones.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 24.1.2021 at 10:49 PM, Child of Hodor said:

With Brandon's appearance on Shardcast he tried to explain in general terms what the difference is between Intent and Command. Eric asked about both Dawnshard and Warbreaker because Vasher talks of them differently.  I wanted to put the Dawnshard text and his explanation side by side.

I am afraid there must be more behind it, as the very same Intent can be reached by different Commands. That was the very thing that started the Manywar. And the exact wording is important.

I must say, if we were not talking about the Cosmere specifically, we would call a "Command"  a spell.

[mathiau he/him]

On 25/01/2021 at 7:13 AM, Malim said:

It could fit.  Take the Change command from the Dawnshard.  I can see at least four different broad intents behind this.

1:  Change Yourself.  This could be physical, mental, spiritual, or some combination.  Note an Intent to change yourself for the worse would still fit the command.  Maybe Honor?

2:  Change Others.  Same as above, but focused on a different individual than yourself.  Domination?

3:  Change the World.  Work to change the entire Shardworld into something else.  Interestingly, this could apply to Odium, as that Shard wants to remake Roshar into a new form.

4:  Change.  It's purest Intent.  Growth, aging, evolution.  Cultivation?

Just my two cents.  The Shards of course are complete guesses, and I know that there are others here who could make better ones.

Honour and Dominion are probably more aspects of Unite than of Change, along with Devotion and Odium. Personally I would say

1: Destroy. Ruin

2:  Change Others. Endowment

3: Change the World. Cultivation

4: Change for the sake of changing : Er... are RoW spoilers allowed in a spoiler box here? I think they're not

 

[basement_boi he/him]

12 hours ago, mathiau said:

Honour and Dominion are probably more aspects of Unite than of Change, along with Devotion and Odium. Personally I would say

1: Destroy. Ruin

2:  Change Others. Endowment

3: Change the World. Cultivation

4: Change for the sake of changing : Er... are RoW spoilers allowed in a spoiler box here? I think they're not

 

I think if you mark it as a spoiler, it should be fine. I believe the Shard you are referencing is

Spoiler

Whimsy

 

[mathiau he/him]

34 minutes ago, basement_boi said:

I think if you mark it as a spoiler, it should be fine. I believe the Shard you are referencing is

  Hide contents

Whimsy

 

Of course

[Eternal Khol he/him]

Old topic but i had some thoughts, so here we go.

 

The Dawnshards have influence over the Shards(as per WoB)

We know that there are 4 Dawnshards and there's speculation that there are 4 shards that came from or follow the Command of each Dawnshard.

The way ive been viewing how the Dawnshards and the Shards are connected is,

The Journey is the Intent. The Destination is the Command.

the Command is the end goal. What is to be overall achieved. Change!

the Intent is the Journey. How that Change is reached. 

Ruin and Cultivation are wildly different but achieve the same thing overall.

 Change.

Ruin and Cultivation are Change. Just a more specific form.

 

maybe the Dawnshards were more Integral to things back before the Shattering and too dangerous or  something and the Shards were a way to achieve the same things through less... direct(cant think of a better word) methods.

[mathiau he/him]

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

the Command is the end goal. What is to be overall achieved. Change!

the Intent is the Journey. How that Change is reached. 

Ruin and Cultivation are wildly different but achieve the same thing overall.

 Change.

Ruin and Cultivation are Change. Just a more specific form.

I think you got it backward. Ruin doesn't achieve change, he achieve irreversibility. As he said when he's done the world will be perfectly still, not ever-changing. Change is his tool (his journey) not his destination.