Let’s talk about pre-Rashek Scadrial

[i’m in the details he/him]

So our ring wearing friends on Roshar could be from a pre-Final Empire Scadrial, in fact they likely are. So what does this mean for that era? We know that citizens were at that time almost to the industrial revolution. So basically it was like Wax and Wayne era. Except there were full feruchemists, with no end of the world, a perpendicularly, a scholarly nature, and sick magic powers. Before RoW I had never considered they would have a big cosmere presence. Maybe we will meet Lutha

[Proletariat]

There's definitely indications that the Worldbringers knew about and could worldhop. WOB says that they have a mutual origin with Worldsingers on Roshar, and that Realmatic theory was part of the ancient Terris religion. The real issue is how time dilation works for worldhoppers who don't have an immortality hack, and therefore if it's reasonable for them to still be around.

[danex he/him]

8 hours ago, i’m in the details said:

in fact they likely are.

[citation needed]

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

13 hours ago, i’m in the details said:

Except there were full feruchemists, with no end of the world, a perpendicularly, a scholarly nature, and sick magic powers. Before RoW I had never considered they would have a big cosmere presence. Maybe we will meet Lutha

I don't know why but when I think of "Era-0" Scadrial I think a lot of Nalthis. I have a feeling Scadrians and Nalthians were very involved with each other on a cultural level.

11 hours ago, Proletariat said:

 The real issue is how time dilation works for worldhoppers who don't have an immortality hack, and therefore if it's reasonable for them to still be around.

If they could make it to Nalthis with something of great value, breaths are always an option.

[Frustration he/him]

On 1/5/2021 at 0:00 AM, Dannex said:

[citation needed]

well it specified rings, plural

Edited January 6, 2021 by Frustration

[danex he/him]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

well it specified rings, plural

So the logical conclusion is that they’re from Era 1, I don’t get how they jumped to Era 0. Or they could just be the same type of metal, Ferrings usually have multiple Metalminds. Miles Hundredlives had had dozens. 

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, Dannex said:

So the logical conclusion is that they’re from Era 1, I don’t get how they jumped to Era 0. Or they could just be the same type of metal, Ferrings usually have multiple Metalminds. Miles Hundredlives had had dozens. 

Why not Era 0?

[danex he/him]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Why not Era 0?

It was over thousand years ago, and sure, worldhoppers have some sort of time dilation happening, but not that much. (Excluding Hoid ofc). Occam’s Razor, it makes a lot more sense that they’re either a Ferring with multiple Metalminds or from Era 1. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Dannex

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, Dannex said:

It was over thousand years ago, and sure, worldhoppers have some sort of time dilation happening, but not that much. (Excluding Hoid ofc). Occam’s Razor, it makes a lot more sense that they’re either a Ferring with multiple Metalminds or from Era 1. 

*Cough* Khriss *chough*

[danex he/him]

Just now, Frustration said:

*Cough* Khriss *chough*

She’s not that old is she? Coppermind doesn’t seem to say.

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Dannex said:

She’s not that old is she? Coppermind doesn’t seem to say.

White sand is by far the earliest novel we have, It's still after Rasheks acsension but not by much on that timescale. If Khriss still looks young without any investiture of her own a Feruchemist could totally do it.

[danex he/him]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

White sand is by far the earliest novel we have, It's still after Rasheks acsension but not by much on that timescale. If Khriss still looks young without any investiture of her own a Feruchemist could totally do it.

Technically the prelude of SA is earlier, but I see your point. So it’s possible they’re from Era 0, but I definitely don’t see how it’s “more likely” than them just being ferrings or from Era 1.

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, Dannex said:

Technically the prelude of SA is earlier, but I see your point. So it’s possible they’re from Era 0, but I definitely don’t see how it’s “more likely” than them just being ferrings or from Era 1.

Well

1. ferrings are lamer
2. The perpendicularity is not know to the general public, or even to us, so whie possible I'm inclined to doubt.
3. In Era 1 The only perpendicularity that was avalible to them was the Pits, and I doubt they sent Feruchemist there.

[danex he/him]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The perpendicularity is not know to the general public, or even to us, so whie possible I'm inclined to doubt.

If they’re a worldhopper I think it’s assumed they aren’t part of the general population. And technically I could say the same thing about Era 0 people. 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

In Era 1 The only perpendicularity that was avalible to them was the Pits, and I doubt they sent Feruchemist there.

Hoid got through somehow, a cosmere-aware Feruchemist could have. The pits or the well, both are technically possible, if the Feruchemist was sneaky enough. 

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

ferrings are lamer

Hmm, touché. Welp, this proves it, they must be from from Era 0.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Dannex

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Dannex said:

If they’re a worldhopper I think it’s assumed they aren’t part of the general population. And technically I could say the same thing about Era 0 people. 

The Well was known enough to have guides

1 minute ago, Dannex said:

Hoid got through somehow, a cosmere-aware Feruchemist could have. The pits or the well, both are technically possible, if the Feruchemist was sneaky enough. 

Hoid didn't find the Well from the Physical side, he had to find it from the cognitive, Neither place is something an undercover Feruchemist wants to visit.

2 minutes ago, Dannex said:

Hmm, touché. Welp, this proves it, they must be from from Era 0.

Rule of Cool trumps all.

[danex he/him]

Just now, Frustration said:

The Well was known enough to have guides

But they weren’t cosmere-aware, they were just doing it because of prophesies and stuffs. Probably wouldn’t know how to use it as a perpendicularity. 

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Hoid didn't find the Well from the Physical side, he had to find it from the cognitive, Neither place is something an undercover Feruchemist wants to visit.

He still managed to get from the Cognitive Well to the Physical Well, and then out of the building. So theoretically someone could also get in the building. It would probably be a lot easier to use the pits though. Which actually wouldn’t be that bad, the pits are only horrible if you’re a prisoner there and have to stick your arms in the geodes for atium. If you were just climbing it would be uncomfortable, but definitely not impossible. Just a tight squeeze. Especially if you knew what you were doing, which a theoretical cosmere-aware Feruchemist would. And I doubt the pits themselves were guarded at night, the people running the pits would be guarding the prisoners, who would be out of the pits. 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Rule of Cool trumps all.

Wait no, it could also be a full Feruchemist from Era 1, I have the rule of cool too. 

[+Bzhydack he/him]

17 minutes ago, Dannex said:

But they weren’t cosmere-aware, they were just doing it because of prophesies and stuffs. Probably wouldn’t know how to use it as a perpendicularity. 

He still managed to get from the Cognitive Well to the Physical Well, and then out of the building. So theoretically someone could also get in the building. It would probably be a lot easier to use the pits though. Which actually wouldn’t be that bad, the pits are only horrible if you’re a prisoner there and have to stick your arms in the geodes for atium. If you were just climbing it would be uncomfortable, but definitely not impossible. Just a tight squeeze. Especially if you knew what you were doing, which a theoretical cosmere-aware Feruchemist would. And I doubt the pits themselves were guarded at night, the people running the pits would be guarding the prisoners, who would be out of the pits. 

Wait no, it could also be a full Feruchemist from Era 1, I have the rule of cool too. 

Hoid is lightweaver, and is master actor. He also Cannot Die. But for other men, its different story. Rashek had practicly total controll over Terrisans, and total controll over both Scadrian Perpendicularities. But prior Rashek ascencion Wheel was on Terris Mountains and was known among highlanders.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

White sand is by far the earliest novel we have, It's still after Rasheks acsension but not by much on that timescale. If Khriss still looks young without any investiture of her own a Feruchemist could totally do it.

I thought Elantris was earlier?

[Proletariat]

IMO the Feruchemist in question was not from this current era. The hint that we were given was Navani seeing someone identical to the guy except for 20 years age difference, which suggests that they could store age. Atium mistings were only able to exist under Leras due to him altering the system and making it one of the 16 rather than the time metals. Sazed has since re-adjusted the system to allow for cadmium and bendalloy which would prevent Atium Mistings and Ferrings, and there are no more full Feruchemists born in this era.

But tbh they might even be from an immigrant Terris population without any time dilation so long as leaving Scadrial predates the final purge by the Inquisitors. I mean, Iyatil is a Southern Scadrian immigrant with a descent of several generations, and the implication is that there's actually a community of Scadrians off world if she has maintained her culture. There's a lot of options for when they got to Roshar.

[i’m in the details he/him]

On 1/5/2021 at 1:00 AM, Dannex said:

[citation needed]

No full feruchemists alive post sazed. Plus no accessible perpendicularity during his rule. 

[+Bzhydack he/him]

17 hours ago, i’m in the details said:

No full feruchemists alive post sazed. Plus no accessible perpendicularity during his rule. 

This is only partialy true. Indeed is no full feruchemists post-Sazed.

But there is most likely accessable Perpendicularity on Scadrial - due to specific Scadrial Investiture Cycle, God Metals form near Perpendicularity. Ettmetal is Harmonys Godmetal, so in the South is probably accessable Perpendicularity.

(I also think Scadrial has two Perpendicularities and one is in the North, because Worldhoppers apear in the North, and I doubht Hoid , Khriss and Nazh want to trip on foot from South.)

[i’m in the details he/him]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

This is only partialy true. Indeed is no full feruchemists post-Sazed.

But there is most likely accessable Perpendicularity on Scadrial - due to specific Scadrial Investiture Cycle, God Metals form near Perpendicularity. Ettmetal is Harmonys Godmetal, so in the South is probably accessable Perpendicularity.

(I also think Scadrial has two Perpendicularities and one is in the North, because Worldhoppers apear in the North, and I doubht Hoid , Khriss and Nazh want to trip on foot from South.)

Forgive me I meant no perpendicularity during rasheks rule

[+Harrycrapper]

Didn't Hoid say that Kelsier screwed up the easier of the perpendicularities to access, therefore screwing up an entire trading system? I'm pretty sure worldhoppers were able to come and go somehow through Ruin's perpendicularity during Era 1. Canned food was being traded from Scadrial, I believe Shallan, Kaladin and Adolin had some when they were traversing Shadesmar in OB, which is a bit before the stories we see in Era 2. Along with the fact that Khriss and Nazh are there in the Era 2 books, we can conclude that there's access to a perpendicularity in Northern Scadrial then as well. While it may have been difficult at some times, I don't see how the perpendicularities were completely inaccessible during any period of time except the years before and after Sazed's Ascension. I would say it definitely wasn't public knowledge in Era 0 or there would have been a mass exodus when everyone thought the world was ending. I'd say it's possible a select few Worldbringers(or Feruchemists that weren't associated with them) knew but they didn't spread it around.