Hoid's Name

[nerpspren]

When Hoid meets Odium in the epilogue, he says that he put his name in the contract he drafted for Dalinar. Do you think Hoid's original name is hidden somewhere in the text?

[seriodor]

44 minutes ago, nerpspren said:

When Hoid meets Odium in the epilogue, he says that he put his name in the contract he drafted for Dalinar. Do you think Hoid's original name is hidden somewhere in the text?

No, Hoid specifically mentioned himself by name when he wrote it. There's a scene where Jasnah is concerned that Odium will strike at him when he's forced to set a time for their contest of champions, so he tells her he will add a part that protects him from that.

[nerpspren]

I did wonder about that, but I wasn't sure there was confirmation it actually ended up happening as it wasn't listed in the text given in the chapter. I may be looking for secrets where there are none  It just stood out to me that he mentioned it specifically

[Tettidesa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, dont have my copy handy right now, but doesn't Rayse call him Cephandrius in that scene? Surely that implies that this is the name Rayse knew him under originally. Obviously that doesn't need to mean that Cephandrius is his first, real, name, but surely it is somewhat implied. Cephandrius is also the name Leras/Preservation uses, so it's probably his real name. This is somewhat in conflict with this WoB where Brandon says Cephandrius is just a very old alias, and not his real name. Not sure if this has been retconned, or Hoid had already been around for a while prior to meeting the original Vessels.

[Jasqueen she/her]

I mean we definitely know that one of his oldest known names is Cephandrius....could his first actual name be different and this is just the one the Vessels know him by? I suppose. Someone ask Brandon again!!!!

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Isn’t the oldest we know Midius?

[DiePie]

We know, from the Oathbringer epigraphs (from part 2 specifically), that the Shard Endowment calls him Cephandrius...

<maybe spoilers from Oathbringer>

Spoiler

Dearest Cephandrius,

I received your communication, of course.

 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Isn’t the oldest we know Midius?

The Shattering took place before the Desolations, Unless you mean real world chronology, which it is Topaz there.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

3 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

The Shattering took place before the Desolations, Unless you mean real world chronology, which it is Topaz there.

In Liar of Partinel Hoid was known as Midius. This is the earliest story we have of him.

[nerpspren]

On 14/12/2020 at 8:04 PM, Tettidesa said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, dont have my copy handy right now, but doesn't Rayse call him Cephandrius in that scene? Surely that implies that this is the name Rayse knew him under originally. Obviously that doesn't need to mean that Cephandrius is his first, real, name, but surely it is somewhat implied. Cephandrius is also the name Leras/Preservation uses, so it's probably his real name. This is somewhat in conflict with this WoB where Brandon says Cephandrius is just a very old alias, and not his real name. Not sure if this has been retconned, or Hoid had already been around for a while prior to meeting the original Vessels.

My understanding from that WoB is that Cephandrius is old, but not the original. It seems to be the name the shards are most familiar with.

19 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Isn’t the oldest we know Midius?

17 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

In Liar of Partinel Hoid was known as Midius. This is the earliest story we have of him.

Is liar of Partinel considered canon? The Heralds call him Midius, which would mean he used it after the shattering.

 

On the subject of Cephandrius, I can't help but think of the Greek routes ceph (head) and andro (man). Do you think this implies a title that he was the "head of men" or "leader of men" at the time?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

13 minutes ago, nerpspren said:

My understanding from that WoB is that Cephandrius is old, but not the original. It seems to be the name the shards are most familiar with.

Is liar of Partinel considered canon? The Heralds call him Midius, which would mean he used it after the shattering.

 

On the subject of Cephandrius, I can't help but think of the Greek routes ceph (head) and andro (man). Do you think this implies a title that he was the "head of men" or "leader of men" at the time?

Reference to Hoid losing his head at the end of Dragonsteel? (Which is where the name comes from.)

[nerpspren]

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Reference to Hoid losing his head at the end of Dragonsteel? (Which is where the name comes from.)

Oh could be! I haven't read dragonsteel

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

26 minutes ago, nerpspren said:

Oh could be! I haven't read dragonsteel

Neither have I. I just know about that because I think Brandon mentioned it once? 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:23 AM, nerpspren said:

The Heralds call him Midius, which would mean he used it after the shattering.

I mean, the name "Hoid" likely predates the Shattering as well. We know it's something he took from his dead master, who presumably was a pre-Shattering person.

On 12/14/2020 at 9:04 PM, Tettidesa said:

Cephandrius is also the name Leras/Preservation uses, so it's probably his real name.

Based on the below WoB, I'd say it's likely the name he used with the Vessels and stuff, but not his "real" name.

Quote

har

Is Cephandrius the real name of the character who goes by different names on different planets?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it's one of his earliest aliases.

faragorn

I'm positive this is RAFO bait but would one of Hoid's aliases possibly be Cephandrius?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid is Cephandrius. It's less an alias and more a long term identity. If you read Dragonsteel, it is super obvious.

General Reddit 2016 (Dec. 6, 2016)

If you've read Dawnshard, I have a bit more of specific theory on it:

Spoiler

I bet it's a name he adopted upon becoming a Dawnshard, and this was the "long-term identity".

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by LewsTherinTelescope
forgot "a" letter

[nerpspren]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I mean, the name "Hoid" likely predates the Shattering as well. We know it's something he took from his dead master, who presumably was a pre-Shattering person.

Based on the below WoB, I'd say it's likely the name he used with the Vessels and stuff, but not his "real" name.

If you've read Dawnshard, I have a bit more of specific theory on it:

  Reveal hidden contents

I bet it's a name he adopted upon becoming Dawnshard, and this was the "long-term identity".

 

I agree the name Hoid likely predates the shattering too. The point I was trying to make (unclearly haha) is that I get the feeling that he doesn't widely use his original name, so if people post shattering know him by a name, it likely isn't the original. That's pure speculation though.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 minute ago, nerpspren said:

I agree the name Hoid likely predates the shattering too. The point I was trying to make (unclearly haha) is that I get the feeling that he doesn't widely use his original name, so if people post shattering know him by a name, it likely isn't the original. That's pure speculation though.

Ah, okay, I agree on that point, yeah. (I'm not fully convinced that Midius was truly his original name in Liar either, honestly. But idk if we want a bunch of Liar discussion here lol.)

[Jasqueen she/her]

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

If you've read Dawnshard, I have a bit more of specific theory on it:

 

What? Mind blown. I finished dawnshard last night, how do we know that Hoid was once the dawnshard? 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 hours ago, Jasqueen said:

What? Mind blown. I finished dawnshard last night, how do we know that Hoid was once the dawnshard? 

When Dawnshard released, Brandon posted a few annotations on Reddit, which is where that bit comes from. (He also ended up doing an impromptu Q&A in the comments.)