Shardplate Speculation

[Clovermite]

Now that we have confirmation that Windrunner plate is composed of Windspren, and WoB confirms that Elsecaller plate is composed of Logic spren (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14477), I find myself wondering which spren the other orders use for their plate.

I think Lightweavers fairly obviously use creation spren.

Stonewards probably use rock spren.I would further guess that Edgedancers use life spren and Dustbringers/Releasers use flamespren. I don't know about the other orders though. and I'm wondering if people here have better ideas than I do. I'm guessing that Glory spren will be involved in some order - perhaps Willshapers (light spren seem similar looking in the physical realm) or Bondsmiths.Maybe anticipation spren for Truthwatchers? I feel like we know so little about this order, as Renarin is a special case.

 

What does everyone else think?

 

 

[Serack]

You hit on most of the speculation I'd already done, and then some, although I would have gone with Bondsmiths first on Glory Spren.

[Lightdancer]

I agree with gloryspren being the Bondsmith plate. Part of me wants Bondsmith plate to be special... but I'm just having flashbacks to Oathbringer climax. Anyways.

I don't know a ton about this- I'm bad at paying attention to the small details of spren. Anticipationspren for Truthwatchers sounds right.

Looking at that list, there aren't any emotion spren... is that significant? (Maybe they only showed up after Odium? They do "feed" on emotion, and angerspren especially are considered dangerous in the cognitive realm... but I guess gloryspren might be considered emotion spren. Storm it.)

Any ideas on the Skybreaker plate?

[Kinolee]

I think we can potentially take some cues from the Singer forms.  Workform utilizes a gravityspren.  Warfarm utilizes a painspren.  I wouldn't be surprised if one of those was the platespren for stonewards.  Actually, since Taln is our main man stoneward apparently... I'm gonna go ahead and guess painspren there, and gravityspren for our gal Venli and the other soon-to-be listener Willshapers.

These are the ones that are known:

• Windrunners = Windspren
• Elsecallers = Logicspren

These are the ones that are commonly agreed upon, just based on the lesser spren often seen around known Knights of these orders:

• Lightweavers = Creationspren
• Bondsmiths = Gloryspren
• Edgedancers = Lifespren

These are the ones I'm personally pretty sure of, because they make sense to me:

• Dustbringers = Flamespren
• Willshapers = Gravityspren
• Stonewards = Painspren

And these two, I just have no idea TBH

• Truthwatchers = ??
• Skybreakers = ??

I like your suggestion that truthwatchers might use anticipationspren.  I can adopt that headcannon, perhaps.  We just don't know nearly enough about actual Truthwatchers, though.  I don't know if Renarin's experiences are sufficient to judge the whole order by.  And I can't really think of a good spren for the Skybreakers. A lot of people have said starpren in the past, but starspren are just way too rare IMO.  Maybe they get the gravityspren instead of the willshapers, but then I don't know what spren the willshapers would have.

[Lightdancer]

Okay, I'm looking at the Coppermind. Cutting out emotion spren (which turns out to be a difficult distinction), and cutting out unlikely candidates like alespren, here are our options for Truthwatchers and Skybreakers.

Anticipationspren, Awespren, Bindspren, coldspren, concentrationspren, gravityspren, groundspren, heatspren, laughterspren, luckspren, musicspren, rainspren, rainbowspren, riverspren, snowspren, "stormstriders", wavespren.

(I cut out a lot that didn't look likely to me... this is a more comprehensive list: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Spren)

Among those, bindspren stick out for the Skybreakers. According to the coppermind, "Spren that appear around objects bound with a Full Lashing. They appear as small splashes of dark blue ink. Their relationship to the Lashings is not fully understood -- Kaladin believes they are what hold the objects together, while Sylphrena disagrees, saying they could be attracted to the Full Lashing Kaladin had created." I can't remember if a Full Lashing requires Adhesion- if so, RIP this theory. Maybe gravityspren, although that would be dull.

I'm guessing we can rule out musicspren, since we know they bond with Rhyshadium.

Dawnshard spoiler below.

Spoiler

Also luckspren, since they bond with the larkin.

I'd also rule out rainbowspren and snowspren, maybe even wavespren and rainspren. I'd rule out all the "weatherspren" if not for windspren. Too bad we don't have "skyspren". That'd make it easy.

Crack theory- Stormstriders make up Bondsmith plate...

[Clovermite]

4 minutes ago, Lightdancer said:

Okay, I'm looking at the Coppermind. Cutting out emotion spren (which turns out to be a difficult distinction), and cutting out unlikely candidates like alespren, here are our options for Truthwatchers and Skybreakers.

Anticipationspren, Awespren, Bindspren, coldspren, concentrationspren, gravityspren, groundspren, heatspren, laughterspren, luckspren, musicspren, rainspren, rainbowspren, riverspren, snowspren, "stormstriders", wavespren.

(I cut out a lot that didn't look likely to me... this is a more comprehensive list: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Spren)

Among those, bindspren stick out for the Skybreakers. According to the coppermind, "Spren that appear around objects bound with a Full Lashing. They appear as small splashes of dark blue ink. Their relationship to the Lashings is not fully understood -- Kaladin believes they are what hold the objects together, while Sylphrena disagrees, saying they could be attracted to the Full Lashing Kaladin had created." I can't remember if a Full Lashing requires Adhesion- if so, RIP this theory. Maybe gravityspren, although that would be dull.

I'm guessing we can rule out musicspren, since we know they bond with Rhyshadium.

Dawnshard spoiler below.

  Hide contents

Also luckspren, since they bond with the larkin.

I'd also rule out rainbowspren and snowspren, maybe even wavespren and rainspren. I'd rule out all the "weatherspren" if not for windspren. Too bad we don't have "skyspren". That'd make it easy.

Crack theory- Stormstriders make up Bondsmith plate...

Nice, great list and link!

I completely forgot about luckspren, and the fact that they are the mandras that pull ships. I feel like these would actually go well with the willshapers, seeing as Lightspren/Reachers are so often sailors in the cognitive realm. I also completely forgot about concentrationspren. I think they would thematically fit the Truthwatchers better than anticipationspren.

Re-reading the gravitationspren entry, I feel like they actually go well with skybreakers. I'm pretty sure that the Full Lashing comes from the adhesion surge, so I don't think bindspren fits as well.

 

[Lightdancer]

1 minute ago, Clovermite said:

Nice, great list and link!

I completely forgot about luckspren, and the fact that they are the mandras that pull ships. I feel like these would actually go well with the willshapers, seeing as Lightspren/Reachers are so often sailors in the cognitive realm. I also completely forgot about concentrationspren. I think they would thematically fit the Truthwatchers better than anticipationspren.

Re-reading the gravitationspren entry, I feel like they actually go well with skybreakers. I'm pretty sure that the Full Lashing comes from the adhesion surge, so I don't think bindspren fits as well.

 

Guess not bindspren, then. I really like the luckspren theory. Concentrationspren makes a lot of sense for Truthwatchers- I wish we had a list of when they have appeared! (Interestingly, Urithiru is one of their hotspots.)

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Lightdancer said:

Among those, bindspren stick out for the Skybreakers. According to the coppermind, "Spren that appear around objects bound with a Full Lashing. They appear as small splashes of dark blue ink. Their relationship to the Lashings is not fully understood -- Kaladin believes they are what hold the objects together, while Sylphrena disagrees, saying they could be attracted to the Full Lashing Kaladin had created." I can't remember if a Full Lashing requires Adhesion- if so, RIP this theory. Maybe gravityspren, although that would be dull.

Full lashing is pure Adhesion.

 

I think we underestimate riverspren, it's mentioned several times that they are "larger" than other spren, and can talk, maybe skybreakers but I don't know.

[Halyo_Alex]

I thought Skybreakers would use Starspren, but after seeing their cognitive forms, I doubt a Starspren would want to be reduced to a piece of metal in the physical realm...

 

Or maybe they would feel honored to be a part of a Radiant's suit of armor? Hmm.

[Rorzikel]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:01 PM, Lightdancer said:

Guess not bindspren, then. I really like the luckspren theory. Concentrationspren makes a lot of sense for Truthwatchers- I wish we had a list of when they have appeared! (Interestingly, Urithiru is one of their hotspots.)

Cool fact- Luckspren look like plumes of smoke when they're leaving a dead greatshell's body. I'd say that's a pretty good addition to the Skybreaker argument.

[Lightdancer]

4 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I thought Skybreakers would use Starspren, but after seeing their cognitive forms, I doubt a Starspren would want to be reduced to a piece of metal in the physical realm...

 

Or maybe they would feel honored to be a part of a Radiant's suit of armor? Hmm.

I agree that they probably wouldn't want to be reduced... though if it was played right, that could be insanely awesome.

[Halyo_Alex]

3 hours ago, Lightdancer said:

I agree that they probably wouldn't want to be reduced... though if it was played right, that could be insanely awesome.

Skybreaker with a dragon mount in the cognitive realm, anyone?

[Edhack77]

I have a theory about these spren, unrelated to the plates. I believe that these 'secondary spren' or 'plate spren' (I don't know how to call them) can be ordered by their Radiant Order into doing some kind of synergy of surges. I also think that these synergies are what give the Orders their names (at least some of them). My evidence of this is mainly a couple of Kaladin's moments and another. So you know in Oathbringer when Kaladin leaves the group of parshmen when he summons a horde of windspren to hold off the Highstorm? And when he swears the Fourth Ideal an creates a sort of tunnel of wind to Lirin? This power I believe is what gives the Windrunners their name. The other moment is when Dalinar opens Honor's perpendicularity, he's surrounded by a massive amount of gloryspren, I think he somehow used the gloryspren to open it(?) (As i was writing this I realized that it didn't sound very plausible, but I still hold to my theory).

So to summarize, I believe that the names of at least some Orders oof Radiants come from synergies of surges they can use by controlling the kind of spren that form their plates. I say at least some Orders because, for example, the Lightweavers are named after their main surge and the Edgedancers have an explanation that Nale gave in Edgedancer, also the Bondsmiths are a special case. But still, the other orders could possibly be named after these synergies, which could give us more clues about their 'Plate spren'. I haven't figured out any others though, this is basically as far as my theory goes but I personally like it a lot. What do you guys think?

[Edhack77]

On 12/12/2020 at 0:05 AM, Halyo_Alex said:

Skybreaker with a dragon mount in the cognitive realm, anyone?

Btw I like this idea a lot, just as a rule of cool

[SirNoSell]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:10 AM, Kinolee said:

And these two, I just have no idea TBH

• Truthwatchers = ??
• Skybreakers = ??

Truthwatchers - Keenspren

Skybreakers - Starspren

[Clovermite]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:12 PM, Edhack77 said:

I have a theory about these spren, unrelated to the plates. I believe that these 'secondary spren' or 'plate spren' (I don't know how to call them) can be ordered by their Radiant Order into doing some kind of synergy of surges. I also think that these synergies are what give the Orders their names (at least some of them). My evidence of this is mainly a couple of Kaladin's moments and another. So you know in Oathbringer when Kaladin leaves the group of parshmen when he summons a horde of windspren to hold off the Highstorm? And when he swears the Fourth Ideal an creates a sort of tunnel of wind to Lirin? This power I believe is what gives the Windrunners their name. The other moment is when Dalinar opens Honor's perpendicularity, he's surrounded by a massive amount of gloryspren, I think he somehow used the gloryspren to open it(?) (As i was writing this I realized that it didn't sound very plausible, but I still hold to my theory).

So to summarize, I believe that the names of at least some Orders oof Radiants come from synergies of surges they can use by controlling the kind of spren that form their plates. I say at least some Orders because, for example, the Lightweavers are named after their main surge and the Edgedancers have an explanation that Nale gave in Edgedancer, also the Bondsmiths are a special case. But still, the other orders could possibly be named after these synergies, which could give us more clues about their 'Plate spren'. I haven't figured out any others though, this is basically as far as my theory goes but I personally like it a lot. What do you guys think?

 

I'm not so sure about the names of the orders coming from the syunergies, but I do remember Brandon talking about each of the orders having a unique synergy ability for the two surges. I could see it being related to getting the "lesser" spren of their order to do something.

I'd be interested to see what they Skybreak synergy would be. In fact, I'd be interested to see more division in general. We've seen a lot of the "sky" from skybreakers, but not much of their "break." It seems like division has the potential to be one of the flashiest surges in terms of war potential, so I'm disappointed we haven't seen more of it onscreen in the fights.

[Frustration]

On 12/15/2020 at 0:51 PM, BrightLord Swageas said:

Truthwatchers - Keenspren

I got the feeling that Keenspren were sentient.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frustration

[Gh0sT]

My guess for the skybreakers is passionspren. A bit of irony considering skybreakers try to ignore their passion. In my mind it fits. And to concrete it even farther for me is that passionspren are white. Which is very symbolic for Szeth who is the mc skybreaker of the series. 

[cometaryorbit]

I agree Lightweavers = creationspren and Bondsmiths = gloryspren seem pretty much confirmed from how they swirl around Shallan and Dalinar.

By the "cousin to the main spren" logic flamespren for Dustbringers (ashspren), and lifespren for Edgedancers (cultivationspren) seem extremely likely.

But flamespren as cousin to lightspren (Willshapers) could also work... I don't think so, though. I think they do go with Dustbringers.

I can see the argument for Stonewards = painspren but it seems less direct than the others.

I don't see a clear answer for Willshapers, Truthwatchers, and Skybreakers.

Logicspren are taken by Elsecallers, so I don't know what Truthwatchers are left with. I feel like they really need an observation/perception/awareness type "emotion" spren. (Logicspren are more about debates.)

Starspren seem to be a good fit as cousins of highspren but they are too rare. Gravitationspren would fit their primary Surge but Windrunners don't use bindspren. Maybe snowspren?

[in Truth,watcher of tv]

I’ve always been an advocate for:

Starspren for Skybreakers (1 spren per radiant)
Musicspren for Willshapers
Mandras/luckspren for Truthwatchers
Stonespren or potentially some sort of ice spren for Stonewards

Its also possible that the Bondsmith’s each get a different spren, in which case I think riverspren will come in.