Who accepted Kaladin 4th ideal

[teknopathetic he/him]

Just now, Myrovyn said:

Thanks! Quite interesting that Venli sees the Siblings voice as femalen.

If you know what chapter it is I could go double-check to make sure its 100% for sure, but I think I am right,

[Myrovyn]

8 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

If you know what chapter it is I could go double-check to make sure its 100% for sure, but I think I am right,

It is the very last line of chapter 115. Thanks in advance

[teknopathetic he/him]

3 minutes ago, Myrovyn said:

It is the very last line of chapter 115. Thanks in advance

Hmm. Unclear actually. It sounds like it could be the Sibling but it is more feminine ... so maybe? It is sort of in the middle weirdly. Disregard my certainty.

[Brgst13]

I think its the Nightwatcher.  We know that the oldest spren had 4 genders, and that they were cognitive creations of the Singers.  Cultivation certainly predates humanity's arrival on Roshar.  The Nightwatcher meets visitors to the Valley to learn to understand humans better.  The Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather, who can accept the Words.  Therefore, it is likely the Nightwatcher, as she seems to check all the boxes.

[DracostarA]

Quote

He felt clunky and slow after being the winds moments ago. But he reveled in what he’d heard and felt. What he’d said. These Words are accepted.

I'm pretty sure the words were said by Dalinar given the quote above.

[+robardin he/him]

4 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Venli's were accepted by the Sibling (what I got from the audiobook readings), 

This is an area for clue-mining I had not considered. Are you saying the voice that initially rejects Venli's Second Ideal, and then later accepts it, is the same voice as the Sibling?

[+Bliev she/her]

4 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

I think its the Nightwatcher.  We know that the oldest spren had 4 genders, and that they were cognitive creations of the Singers.  Cultivation certainly predates humanity's arrival on Roshar.  The Nightwatcher meets visitors to the Valley to learn to understand humans better.  The Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather, who can accept the Words.  Therefore, it is likely the Nightwatcher, as she seems to check all the boxes.

Venli hears:

Quote

A distant sensation struck her, a femalen voice, so very far away—but thrumming with the pure rhythm of Roshar. These words, it said, are not accepted. Not accepted? 

The fact that she’s in the tower; but the voice is far away, and strictly femalen, indicates that it’s not the Sibling. 
 

The “pure rhythm” is related to the “old rhythms of Roshar” which suggest Cultivation. I don’t see that it would be the NW who, from our knowledge in oathbringer is still a spren like the Stormfather used to be before Honor died and not all that sensible to humanity. Definitely not sensible enough to determine the rightness of the oaths, I’d say.

[Brgst13]

24 minutes ago, Bliev said:

Venli hears:

The fact that she’s in the tower; but the voice is far away, and strictly femalen, indicates that it’s not the Sibling. 
 

The “pure rhythm” is related to the “old rhythms of Roshar” which suggest Cultivation. I don’t see that it would be the NW who, from our knowledge in oathbringer is still a spren like the Stormfather used to be before Honor died and not all that sensible to humanity. Definitely not sensible enough to determine the rightness of the oaths, I’d say.

This is a good point.  It just occurred to me reading your post that Cultivation is able to shapeshift, it is quite possible that she replied to a Singer as a femalen.

[teknopathetic he/him]

17 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

This is a good point.  It just occurred to me reading your post that Cultivation is able to shapeshift, it is quite possible that she replied to a Singer as a femalen.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: The issue is Michael Kramer reads the only chapters where we see Cultivation/Nightwatcher speak while Kate Reading does the Venli chapters.I don't have a Cultivation Voice as done by Kate Reading to utilize in comparison with the oath voice. As for the Nightwatcher, it is possible Kate Reading did something waaay different than Michael Kramer, but the Nightwatcher was so stylized that I doubt Kate would have read her as normal human in voice (think Mileena from Mortal Kombat 11)

It could be Cultivation, but I don't have anything to compare it to as Kate has never read for her on screen. It is also possible this voice is the a more invigorated Sibling (but that isnt clear either). 

 

I don't think we can really know. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Brgst13]

I haven't heard the audio book.  That does seem to rule out the Nightwatcher.

[LightReader she/her]

I was assuming it was Cultivation who accepted Venli’s oath because the listeners have always seemed closer to Cultivation than to Honor. Wasn’t it a femalen voice that accepted Rlaine’s oath too? Or maybe that was his spren. It could’ve been the spren in both cases actually, since I think they were both female spren. I’d go check but my husband is currently reading. 

[Mardragon]

On 25/11/2020 at 3:48 AM, Brgst13 said:

This is a good point.  It just occurred to me reading your post that Cultivation is able to shapeshift, it is quite possible that she replied to a Singer as a femalen.

I think ‘femalen’ is just the Singer word for female’. I don’t think it just refers to singer females. While it’s usually used to refer to female singers, I think that’s just because that’s their word. From a Singer’s POV a human woman would be a human femalen. So the voice of Cultivation or The Nightwatcher would be interpreted as femalen from Venli’s POV. I don’t think any shapeshifting was required.

[Frustration]

On 11/25/2020 at 0:25 PM, Brgst13 said:

I haven't heard the audio book.  That does seem to rule out the Nightwatcher.

Audiobok's voicing is a nice hint but should not be taken as cannon.

[Seloun]

13 minutes ago, Mardragon said:

I think ‘femalen’ is just the Singer word for female’. I don’t think it just refers to singer females. While it’s usually used to refer to female singers, I think that’s just because that’s their word. From a Singer’s POV a human woman would be a human femalen. So the voice of Cultivation or The Nightwatcher would be interpreted as femalen from Venli’s POV. I don’t think any shapeshifting was required.

Singers seem to define four genders, with 'female' and 'male' being the reproductive genders:

Quote

A group of three mateforms— two female, one male— played in the water, splashing at one another. Barely clothed, they dripped with what others would be drinking.

...

It was an excuse. Just as those who took on mateform used their form as an excuse for their inane activities. When a worker, Eshonai had trained herself to confront when necessary. She’d even been a mate once, and had proven to herself firsthand that one could indeed be productive as a mate, despite . . . distractions.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 166). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

That said, it's unclear whether or not Venli could have differentiated a 'female' and 'femalen' voice, and could have been using it in the generic sense rather than the specific gender. My personal theory? The voice is BAM.

[+Invocation]

My first thought was that it was their Spiritual Ideal selves. The versions of themselves already at the end of the journey that Radiancy brings about.
But then I pretty much tossed that idea out in favor of Kaladin's being Dalinar and Venli's being either Eshonai or Cultivation herself.