[Discuss] Windrunner 5th Ideal

[The Sovereign]

I haven't dug through all 7 pages of replies thoroughly, only skimmed so I apologize if this has been brought up already but I think we should be looking to the "arguments" Kaladin and Lirin have been having all series for a couple of potential Oaths:

Can you kill to protect? The 5th Ideal could be something along the lines of "There are many ways to protect". Acknowledging that how you protect someone can vary from person to person. This seems plausible to me, though probably too open ended.

You have to learn when to care. I think this is more likely to be the fifth ideal: "I will forgive myself for those I cannot protect." This seems like a natural progression from the 4th Ideal. First accepting that you are going to fail some people. And then not blaming yourself for that.

Edited October 24, 2024 by The Sovereign
Fixing some grammar.

[JoeisCrafty]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:24 AM, Firesong said:

If we analyze each Ideal

• Second Ideal: Vowing to protect the defenceless
• Third Ideal: Protecting even those that you hate, it is based around protecting people despite your own feelings on them
• Forth Ideal: Still choosing to protect people even while knowing that you won't always succeed and get the satisfaction of succeeding in it. It is protection for the sake of it being the right thing to do.  

Each one is about a more and more selfless form of protection, moving it further and further away from protection for the sake of yourself, and into doing it simply due to the fact it is the right thing to do. 

Looking at the Fifth Ideal of Skybreakers being becoming Law, the most extreme form of the Ideals beforehand, it is probably some form of full devotion to protection. Not sure how exactly that would manifest, though. 

Looking at the ideals, they seem very similar in tone to the Serenity Prayer.   In that they are a journey to acceptance that not everything is within an individual's control, and being at peace with that.  Kaladin has shown he has the courage to change things, but he has struggled with the wisdom to know what is within his control and what is not.

If we look at Kaladin's journey, he has had many many hardships leading him on a pathway to peace.  It is my own personal thought that the 5th will somehow allow for Kaladin to live in the moment, and sometimes he must surrender to protect.

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

Might as well get my guess in here before WaT comes out

I think the fifth Ideal will be something along the lines of “I will trust others to protect in my place”. This would allow a Windrunner to delegate and take a step back from the front lines in order to lead a large population, while not contradicting previous Oaths. It also follows with the themes of trust and hierarchy of the Surges of Adhesion and Gravitation, respectively.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

“I will choose how and who to protect, and trust my judgement.”

I made a post about this roughly an hour ago. This reflects the skybreaker fifth ideal of “becoming the law” and taking control, or being unbound.