What Are Dawnshards?

[Karger he/him]

The question that launched a thousand threads.  Make that a thousand and one!  What are Dawnshards? 

What we Know

• The Dawnshards we created prior to the shattering.  In fact they were used to cause the shattering. 
• Each one is one of Adonalsium's Commands.
• Hoid used to have one and was altered by his prolonged contact with it.
• There are four.  Each Dawnshard is unique in terms of intent.
• Rysn's causes things to Change.

What we can deduce/suspect

• Each of the dawnshards created four shards.  I personally imagine Adonalsium being pulled apart by the four dawnshards.

My Theory

I think Adonalsium created them as the "rules" for the system(universe) he was making.  Sure it may have been neigh "all powerful" but you need to create limits to get anything worthwhile done.  I like to use chess as an analogy.  Sure you could break the game entirely in a million different ways but the outcome only has interest or meaning if you set a group of rules that govern how you play.  To make his universe Adonalsium stated that every bit of investiture/matter it put into the system would follow certain behaviors.  Investiture would Change(and speculating), Connect, Persist, and Understand.  If you pull on(stretch) those rules your ability to interact with the game goes away.  This is what happened to Adonalsium.  Its body was divided but its mind simply moved on.  I don't think you need to resurrect Adonalsium.  If you put the Dawnshards back together in the right alignment you will essentially just pull him back.

[Knight of Iron]

Nice theory! Do we know for 100% there are four though? I thought I saw Brandon say he left the mural intentionally vague.

 Now... I’ve been thinking more along the lines of their composition. It’s certainly more than just an amount of Investiture, but I do believe there is clearly Investiture as part of its composition, maybe some kind of super powerful Intent or something. I theorize the Investiture for each Dawnshard is associated with the Shards that fall under that category of Dawnshard. I think Endowment, then, must belong to this section of Change because Rysn manifests some of the quirks of Heightenings, which I guess you could say is “signature” of Endowment’s Investiture.

[Syntal]

30 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

Nice theory! Do we know for 100% there are four though? I thought I saw Brandon say he left the mural intentionally vague.

 Now... I’ve been thinking more along the lines of their composition. It’s certainly more than just an amount of Investiture, but I do believe there is clearly Investiture as part of its composition, maybe some kind of super powerful Intent or something. I theorize the Investiture for each Dawnshard is associated with the Shards that fall under that category of Dawnshard. I think Endowment, then, must belong to this section of Change because Rysn manifests some of the quirks of Heightenings, which I guess you could say is “signature” of Endowment’s Investiture.

If your last point about Endowment were true I think we would be able to find more similarities in the magic systems of Shards in the same grouping, i.e. anyone holding a large amount of investiture from any of the "change-based" Shards would exhibit abilities reminiscent of the Heightenings. I agree that they are clearly a large amount of investiture PLUS something more such as intent, and there may be more subtle similarities between the investiture of Shards in each category, but I am pretty sure many of the effects of Heightenings have been confirmed to simply be side-effects of being heavily invested (which is why a single Returned breath gives a Heightening equal to that of many ordinary breaths). I really like your idea of looking more into the actual composition of the Dawnshards though, as that could be helpful in better understanding the Shattering.

[Karger he/him]

59 minutes ago, Knight of Iron said:

ve been thinking more along the lines of their composition

I think they are for lack of a better way of explaining it "coded" investiture.  Think of it like a set of instructions or rules built to maintain the cosmere.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Karger

[Knight of Iron]

17 minutes ago, Syntal said:

If your last point about Endowment were true I think we would be able to find more similarities in the magic systems of Shards in the same grouping, i.e. anyone holding a large amount of investiture from any of the "change-based" Shards would exhibit abilities reminiscent of the Heightenings. I agree that they are clearly a large amount of investiture PLUS something more such as intent, and there may be more subtle similarities between the investiture of Shards in each category, but I am pretty sure many of the effects of Heightenings have been confirmed to simply be side-effects of being heavily invested (which is why a single Returned breath gives a Heightening equal to that of many ordinary breaths). I really like your idea of looking more into the actual composition of the Dawnshards though, as that could be helpful in better understanding the Shattering.

Your points are true, just re-looked at the recent WOBs. It’s confirmed that the “Heightening effects” are more due to the amount of Investiture rather than any tie to Endowment. However, this does further confirm that the Dawnshard itself is more than some kind of Command or Intent, and that Investiture itself must be part of its composition. I was only making the correlation because of a WOB where Brandon says that all Investiture is tied to one of the 16 Shards, and there is no Investiture that is not tied to any Shard. Whether or not that tie is relevant is a separate issue, I suppose, as as of yet we don’t see any more support for the theory other than the already-explained Heightening-like effects.

In short, I do agree with you lol. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Loialty loailty loailty he/him]

IJust wanted to inquire if there was any talk of there possibly being a dawnshard on 5th of the sun or threnody? Just trying to understand why these places got one off stories if they won’t be of later importance also wondering why the alien invaders would have so much interest in 5th and it’s magic if there weren’t something greater there.

I have to admit 6th of the dusk is one of my favorite characters in the conserve and I would like to seem again but I just was wondering if there had been further talk about locations of the other two dawnshards as it’s being strongly theorized that the second is or was on Scadrial. 

[Destrus]

Isn't the statement in Dawnshard that there are 4 Commands?   I felt that it was implied that the Four Commands gave Adonalsium the power of "godhood" and those same Four Commands were used to unmake Adonalsium.  

It also strongly implied that each Shard is in a group of for that ties to a command.  Four groups of four.   And it seems that the time Dawnshard is the ability to Make/Remake.  So Cultivation goes there, right? Endowment as well perhaps?

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

I Just wanted to inquire if there was any talk of there possibly being a dawnshard on 5th of the sun or threnody? Just trying to understand why these places got one off stories if they won’t be of later importance also wondering why the alien invaders would have so much interest in 5th and it’s magic if there weren’t something greater there.

I mean it is possible.  I think however that Odium would probably have grabbed any threnody dawnshard and the ones above are likely interested in a new magic that they can exploit.  Mraize keeps his chicken on him at all times for a reason.  It is not like the Aviar are not useful.

2 hours ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

I have to admit 6th of the dusk is one of my favorite characters in the conserve and I would like to seem again but I just was wondering if there had been further talk about locations of the other two dawnshards as it’s being strongly theorized that the second is or was on Scadrial. 

I have not know about the scadrail speculation and I honestly have a hard time believing it.  That planet was relatively new.  I think Frost might have one.  Maybe the 17th as well.  Yollen possibly?

[Leuthie]

I posted this elsewhere, but what if Adonalsium was complete and used only what was within itself to create the Cosmere? The Commands It used were so complex, they spontaneously existed (became ordered Investiture in the Spirit Realm) in the act of their use. These 4 Commands existed without Adonalsium's knowledge. As large chunks of Investiture, they eventually gained self awareness and led people to them (Dawnshard Change spoke to Rysn when she got near the mural). They sought acceptance to be attached from the people they attracted (as Change sought acceptance from Rysn). Upon acceptance, they attached themselves to their Spirit Webs. Shattered Adonalsium, thrown free, attached to murals, etc.

[Loialty loailty loailty he/him]

27 minutes ago, Karger said:

I mean it is possible.  I think however that Odium would probably have grabbed any threnody dawnshard and the ones above are likely interested in a new magic that they can exploit.  Mraize keeps his chicken on him at all times for a reason.  It is not like the Aviar are not useful.

I have not know about the scadrail speculation and I honestly have a hard time believing it.  That planet was relatively new.  I think Frost might have one.  Maybe the 17th as well.  Yollen possibly?

Sorry I’m relatively new at posting so I’m not sure how to break it up like you did. 
 

i forgot there was a possibility that odium had been on threnody in the past and killed a shard there. 
 

also never put together that mraize constantly had a bird with him at all times. I need to go back through all the books. 
 

but you don’t see a similarity in how Rysn was give a command to Change and Kelsier was given a command to Survive? I have read a few theories on here that scadrial could have held a dawnshard with a survival command and must admit I like the possibility. 
 

Edit: just realized you most likely quoted then deleted the portions you didn’t want in order to reply one at a time. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Loialty loailty loailty

[Karger he/him]

2 minutes ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

Sorry I’m relatively new at posting so I’m not sure how to break it up like you did. 

No problem just highlight the text and a quote option should pop up for that line alone.  Welcome to the shard.

3 minutes ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

i forgot there was a possibility that odium had been on threnody in the past and killed a shard there. 

It is actually known from Khriss's essay on the region IIRC.  Odium and Ambition had a large scale battle there where Odium wounded Ambition pretty badly.

4 minutes ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

but you don’t see a similarity in how Rysn was give a command to Change and Kelsier was given a command to Survive? I have read a few theories on here that scadrial could have held a dawnshard with a survival command and must admit I like the possibility. 

I think we are dealing with commands and Commands.  I personally don't see how neither of the scadrain shards picked up an available dawnshard and used it against the other.  Seems like it would be a pretty large scale advantage.

[Loialty loailty loailty he/him]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

It is actually known from Khriss's essay on the region IIRC.  Odium and Ambition had a large scale battle there where Odium wounded Ambition pretty badly.

I have to reread Unbounded obviously I’m forgetting a lot. 

 

[Loialty loailty loailty he/him]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think we are dealing with commands and Commands.  I personally don't see how neither of the scadrain shards picked up an available dawnshard and used it against the other.  Seems like it would be a pretty large scale advantage.

I was reading that there could be a possibility it’s part of the Oathpact that they made before/after the shattering that the Shards not use the Dawnshards as weapons against each other.
Otherwise why didn’t Honor or Cultivation use the one they had direct access to to defeat Odium?

[Loialty loailty loailty he/him]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

No problem just highlight the text and a quote option should pop up for that line alone.  Welcome to the shard.

Thanks for the welcome. I have been lurking for probably 2-3 years now posting very sporadically, but being late to the Kickstarter for the Way of Kings has driven me to want to be more informed. 

[Syntal]

47 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

I posted this elsewhere, but what if Adonalsium was complete and used only what was within itself to create the Cosmere? The Commands It used were so complex, they spontaneously existed (became ordered Investiture in the Spirit Realm) in the act of their use. These 4 Commands existed without Adonalsium's knowledge. As large chunks of Investiture, they eventually gained self awareness and led people to them (Dawnshard Change spoke to Rysn when she got near the mural). They sought acceptance to be attached from the people they attracted (as Change sought acceptance from Rysn). Upon acceptance, they attached themselves to their Spirit Webs. Shattered Adonalsium, thrown free, attached to murals, etc.

That’s an interesting idea, but I don’t think the Dawnshards are sentient in the way objects or spren are. They seem more similar to Shards in that they are a source of power that can be taken up by a holder. Additionally, the way I interpreted it Adonalsium already had divine power through the shards and simply used the Dawnshards to control his investiture and create the cosmere. It would be difficult to believe that Adonalsium did not have knowledge of the Dawnshards, as it was at least implied that he also had knowledge of the Shattering beforehand but decided to sit back and let it occur.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

I was reading that there could be a possibility it’s part of the Oathpact that they made before/after the shattering that the Shards not use the Dawnshards as weapons against each other.
Otherwise why didn’t Honor or Cultivation use the one they had direct access to to defeat Odium?

But then why worry about it getting into the wrong hands?  Just give it to the shards.

1 hour ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

Thanks for the welcome. I have been lurking for probably 2-3 years now posting very sporadically, but being late to the Kickstarter for the Way of Kings has driven me to want to be more informed. 

No problem.  BTW you should copy and paste your quote into the same post.  Double posting is frowned upon.

[Leuthie]

59 minutes ago, Syntal said:

That’s an interesting idea, but I don’t think the Dawnshards are sentient in the way objects or spren are. They seem more similar to Shards in that they are a source of power that can be taken up by a holder. Additionally, the way I interpreted it Adonalsium already had divine power through the shards and simply used the Dawnshards to control his investiture and create the cosmere. It would be difficult to believe that Adonalsium did not have knowledge of the Dawnshards, as it was at least implied that he also had knowledge of the Shattering beforehand but decided to sit back and let it occur.

The interaction between Adonalsium and the Dawnshards is impossible to know, I'm just putting something together for fun. Glad you're thinking differently. I wasn't aware that we knew that Adonalsium was aware of the impending Shattering. It would make sense that It would also be aware of the instruments used to Shatter.

As for the Dawnshards not being sentient. The only one we've seen literally talked to Rysn, trying to convince her accept it into her. It then reacted to her acceptance and attached itself to her. That isn't exactly proof of life, but it does show sentience pretty directly.