spren fabrials Logic spren clocks

[StormFather!]

Chapter 15
The Light and the Music

Logicspren react curiously to imprisonment. Unlike other spren, they do not manifest some attribute—you cannot use them to make heat, or to warn of nearby danger, or conjoin gemstones. For years, artifabrians considered them useless—indeed, experimenting with them was uncommon, since logicspren are rare and difficult to capture.

A breakthrough has come in discovering that logicspren will vary the light they radiate based on certain stimuli. For example, if you make the Light leak from the gemstone at a controlled rate, the spren will alternate dimming and brightening in a regular pattern. This has led to fabrial clocks.

When the gemstone is tapped with certain metals, the light will also change states from bright to dim. This is leading to some very interesting and complex mechanisms.

They could be leaking light into other gems like a stormlight powered on/off pendulum in the clock so that it spins at a certain rate, like the pendulums in a clock regulates how fast a spring unwinds or a weight drops.

Edited October 13, 2020 by StormFather!

[ecohansen]

Humph.  I was pretty invested in my belief that fabrial clocks were steam clocks powered by augmenting a "calm wind" from the smokestone.

Does anyone have any ideas about why the logicspren was in a smokestone?

So, now we have an analogue to an atomic clock, an also an avenue towards logic gates and transistors.  Given the rarity of logicspren, though, it would be impossible to build a traditional computer with one logicspren per transistor--there probably aren't enough logicspren on Roshar to build even a single ENIAC analogue.

But could you build a quantum computer, with one logicspren per qbit?   That would be much more spren-efficient than a spren-ENIAC would be.  Of course, the logicspren would have to run on some kind of modal Kleene or Godel logic that allowe multiple simultaneous truth-values. 
What do you think?  Can logicspren only use Aristotelian logic?

[slipwiz]

Computer programmer here. My jaw literally dropped when I read this chapter.. To me. BS just stated that logicspren are the equivent of fabrial binary microcode and are used program fabrials ...  The name make sence as computer code. Is often described as logic... 

Edited October 13, 2020 by slipwiz

[ZenBossanova]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:35 PM, slipwiz said:

Computer programmer here. My jaw literally dropped when I read this chapter.. To me. BS just stated that logicspren are the equivent of fabrial binary microcode and are used program fabrials ...  The name make sence as computer code. Is often described as logic... 

Does this mean that we can make all the elementary circuit components, using logicspren? 

[slipwiz]

the way i see it... it would 

[Karger he/him]

This does beg the question at what rate do they pulse?  Is it a variant of some rhythm?  A function based on the rate of stormlight decrease?  Also I figured out the next step for computers.  You can use a conjoiner to move light from one to another.  The fabrails don't even have to be next to each other provided you have one end of the conjoiner touching each of them.

[Ixthos he/him]

The real question is can you make only primitive gates with logic spren (so for example a NAND, and with enough NANDs you can make any other logic circuit), or can you get more complex gates or circuits from them, such as XOR or even an entire ALU from a single spren? Can the clock fabrials be used as the clock within a computer, synchronising all operations, and ran at sufficient speeds? If they are so difficult to attract, and logic requires a lot of gates for certain operations, how long would it take to make a basic computer ... unless the operation of a computer attracts them. So a functioning computer draws logic spren, which can be trapped to make another computer ... which can be networked to the first one and attract even more logic spren ... and so on. 

Also, how easy would it be to attach one type of fabrial to another to allow computer-controlled fabirals? Or even using the split gems in spanreeds as a method of connecting them, as they don't have to move but can function on pulses, creating a wireless computer network or remotely operated machine. There are a lot of option.

[Quantus he/him]

On 10/13/2020 at 7:35 PM, slipwiz said:

Computer programmer here. My jaw literally dropped when I read this chapter.. To me. BS just stated that logicspren are the equivent of fabrial binary microcode and are used program fabrials ...  The name make sence as computer code. Is often described as logic... 

Same, I had to stop and post my excitement before even getting to the rest of the chapter.  

But I dont think they are quite as advanced and/or complex as you indicate.  I dont think they constitutes "the software to program and control fabrials..." as you said in the other thread, just that they can serve the role of the Timing elements in the computational machine.  In other words, the logicspren isnt a whole computer, just the Clock circuit portion of it.  

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

On 10/25/2020 at 11:34 AM, Ixthos said:

If they are so difficult to attract, and logic requires a lot of gates for certain operations, how long would it take to make a basic computer ... unless the operation of a computer attracts them. So a functioning computer draws logic spren, which can be trapped to make another computer ... which can be networked to the first one and attract even more logic spren ... and so on. 

And then eventually they become an artificial general intelligence and declare humanity unnecessary because their computational body provides all the Logic they need to survive

[slipwiz]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Same, I had to stop and post my excitement before even getting to the rest of the chapter.  

But I dont think they are quite as advanced and/or complex as you indicate.  I dont think they constitutes "the software to program and control fabrials..." as you said in the other thread, just that they can serve the role of the Timing elements in the computational machine.  In other words, the logicspren isnt a whole computer, just the Clock circuit portion of it.  

i'm seeing as a way to send 0 and1 .. how extensive this will be will remanin to be seen 

[Ixthos he/him]

8 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

And then eventually they become an artificial general intelligence and declare humanity unnecessary because their computational body provides all the Logic they need to survive

Funally enough I actually do think A.I. is going to be a thing in the cosmere ... so ... :-P

[Realmatic Shadow]

8 hours ago, Ixthos said:

Funally enough I actually do think A.I. is going to be a thing in the cosmere ... so ... :-P

We have more than a few WOB about AI and how they would interact with different properties in the cosmere (Their representation in the Cognitive, do they have a spiritweb, how would children work? (was a weird question)), so Brandon at least has some thought put into it somewhere

Found the actual WOB that references children, was comparing the creation of an AI to that of having a child. Seems I remember that quite differently (spoilered for length, highlighted relevant part)

Spoiler

DrogaKrolow

Sentient machines, artificial intelligence. Would they be able to use Investiture? Or not? How would that work?

Brandon Sanderson

So, define "use Investiture". Like, there's a lot of different ways to quote-unquote use Investiture.

DrogaKrolow

OK, I don't mean the medallions but like if I go and peek into the Spiritual Realm and I look at the machine, do I see Investiture inside it? The Connections to the Shards and so on?

Brandon Sanderson

Chances are good that you will. But I have to add a big asterisk to that, it's gonna depend on so many factors. But consciousness in the cosmere is directly tied to  Investiture. And creating a machine in many ways cosmerelogically is not that different from creating a child.

DrogaKrolow

Okay... Interesting.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. I'll just leave it there.

DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017)

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Realmatic Shadow
Found the actual WOB, instead of the half-formed memory