Chapters 7/8

[+Q10fanatic]

57 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So Moash just happened to decide to kill Roshone on the day The Mink happens to be there? He just happens to show up the first time a new fabrial is used? And he chooses to confront Kaladin and then chooses to surrender without fighting?

I think you are ascribing too much information to the Odium side here. You are assuming that they knew about Kaladin and the Mink far enough in advance to coordinate some elaborate trap but that trap was too inept/ad hoc to capture Kaladin.

I think this is new anti-KR tech, and a Fused that is trying to intercept generic KRs. The Fused had just gotten warning that this specific WR was in the area and he was on high alert. There is nothing indicating that they knew about the Mink. Actually, I don't think it's clear that Kaladin knew about the Mink either.

Moash doesn't really make sense to me. He wasn't really working with the one Fused to capture the KRs. The Fused were keeping prisoners in the cellar. It makes no sense to do that if your ally with a shardblade is planning to kill them. To me, the killing of the prisoners suggests that Moash and this Fused aren't working together right now. I don't actually think that Moash is trying to sweet talk his way back into Urithiru, but he has some plan that requires him to be brought in by the KRs or by Kaladin in particular.

[Karger]

Quote

15 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, raising the question why his handlers allowed that without questions. Had they known, why let Kaladin's family live freely. And while we are at it, why did Moash not attack Kaladin's family?

Why would they?  They want Kaladin here.  Kaladin's family is not doing anything harmful.  Killing them would not do anything.  We don't know Moash's current relationship to the fused.  They never bothered to guard him.  He could easily have left if he wanted to.

18 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, the people there did not expect Kaladin. And The Mink does not know him.

They would not have been told who to meet(security).  Of course Kaladin would come to his hometown.  Being Kaladin grant him the trust of most of the locals.  That is critical in this kind of operation.

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So the Radiants are sending in Lift, Godeki and Shallan without backup transport? Not really a well planned mission.

I assume they have a large number of squire Windrunnres somewhere around here.  Oh god.  What if their powers were knocked out at the same time as Kaladin's?

23 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Lirin recognized him right away.

He was clearly ready for what happened.  I assume he let them reveal him without making moves because he wanted that first shot.

21 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I think you are ascribing too much information to the Odium side here. You are assuming that they knew about Kaladin and the Mink far enough in advance to coordinate some elaborate trap but that trap was too inept/ad hoc to capture Kaladin.

We have not seen the full implementation. 

22 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I think this is new anti-KR tech, and a Fused that is trying to intercept generic KRs. The Fused had just gotten warning that this specific WR was in the area and he was on high alert. There is nothing indicating that they knew about the Mink. Actually, I don't think it's clear that Kaladin knew about the Mink either.

A good point.

23 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I don't actually think that Moash is trying to sweet talk his way back into Urithiru, but he has some plan that requires him to be brought in by the KRs or by Kaladin in particular.

Agreed.  Unless he has bonded Yalig-nar I don't see any real way he could get out of an Urithiru prision.

[+Wax]

Vyre (Moash) is just surrendering was a complete hoodwink for Kaladin.

He has Jerizen's honorblade for summoning.  He can escape any time.  Just doing it to get intel.

Did anyone notice the "green eyes" on him? Clearly has the lighteyes thing going with the honorblade.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Wax

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

I think you are ascribing too much information to the Odium side here. You are assuming that they knew about Kaladin and the Mink far enough in advance to coordinate some elaborate trap but that trap was too inept/ad hoc to capture Kaladin.

Then why was Moash there? Explaining that away takes multiple unlikely assumptions.

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

I think this is new anti-KR tech, and a Fused that is trying to intercept generic KRs. The Fused had just gotten warning that this specific WR was in the area and he was on high alert. There is nothing indicating that they knew about the Mink. Actually, I don't think it's clear that Kaladin knew about the Mink either.

So they are sending Kaladin, Lift, Godeki (spelling?) and Shallan on the day The Mink happens to be there by accident?

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

Moash doesn't really make sense to me. He wasn't really working with the one Fused to capture the KRs.

Correct. So they are sacrificing that Fused. Moash intends to be captured.

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

The Fused were keeping prisoners in the cellar. It makes no sense to do that if your ally with a shardblade is planning to kill them.

Why? The hostages force the Windrunner to protect them. Killing them is not a problem as long as the Windrunner believes them to be alive.

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

To me, the killing of the prisoners suggests that Moash and this Fused aren't working together right now. I don't actually think that Moash is trying to sweet talk his way back into Urithiru, but he has some plan that requires him to be brought in by the KRs or by Kaladin in particular.

Yes. Which plan?

48 minutes ago, Karger said:

Agreed.  Unless he has bonded Yalig-nar I don't see any real way he could get out of an Urithiru prision.

That is a distinct possibility.

Quote

Why would they?  They want Kaladin here.  Kaladin's family is not doing anything harmful.  Killing them would not do anything.

Right. Hence you take them hostage and threaten dire mistreatments.

Quote

Of course Kaladin would come to his hometown.  Being Kaladin grant him the trust of most of the locals.  That is critical in this kind of operation.

Also true. Sending Kaladin makes perfect sense. The point is sending him undisguised. That brand of his is really distinctive.

15 minutes ago, Wax said:

Did anyone notice the "green eyes" on him? Clearly has the lighteyes thing going with the honorblade.

Good point. I admit. I did not. But Rosharans look for eye color. Using his blade he gave away that he has a Shard Blade. Why? We are missing crucial information. You do not just bring somebody with a Honor Blade to your HQ.

[Isilel]

13 minutes ago, Wax said:

Vyre (Moash) is just surrendering was a complete hoodwink for Kaladin.

Yea, he obviously plans something nefarious. Hopefully, Kaladin isn't dumb enough to take him to Urithiru... And also thinks to demand the surrender of the shardblade.

 

13 minutes ago, Wax said:

Did anyone notice the "green eyes" on him? Clearly has the lighteyes thing going with the honorblade.

This is odd though - why aren't his eyes blue? Szeth's eyes remained blue for a few hours after summoning Jezrien's honorblade.

[Kuram]

40 minutes ago, Wax said:

Vyre (Moash) is just surrendering was a complete hoodwink for Kaladin.

He has Jerizen's honorblade for summoning.  He can escape any time.  Just doing it to get intel.

Did anyone notice the "green eyes" on him? Clearly has the lighteyes thing going with the honorblade.

Kal will assume he still has the shardblade that he originally was given after the duel, I don't know why they wouldn't force him to relinquish the blade he was holding.

[+Wax]

35 minutes ago, Kuram said:

Kal will assume he still has the shardblade that he originally was given after the duel, I don't know why they wouldn't force him to relinquish the blade he was holding.

It's a dual wield, maybe?  One standard and the other is the honorblade 

[Karger]

AHA.  Another chance to respond to EVERYONE!

Also What if it is not Moash?  The fused have Lightweaver equivalent.

2 hours ago, Wax said:

He has Jerizen's honorblade for summoning.  He can escape any time.  Just doing it to get intel.

They are in a basement.  This is specifically why Kaladin was lured hear. 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Then why was Moash there? Explaining that away takes multiple unlikely assumptions.

See above theory!

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Correct. So they are sacrificing that Fused. Moash intends to be captured.

Seems a lot of trouble to sacrifice.

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That is a distinct possibility.

And a terrifying one.  He could do a lot of damage.

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Right. Hence you take them hostage and threaten dire mistreatments.

That means Kaladin will have time to plan.  Time in which to consult.  Time to realize that he has no chance of making the fused keep their word.

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Also true. Sending Kaladin makes perfect sense. The point is sending him undisguised. That brand of his is really distinctive.

And can't be hidden.

1 hour ago, Wax said:

It's a dual wield, maybe?  One standard and the other is the honorblade 

Oh snap.  Even if he surrenders a blade he will have a backup!

[HoidsRock]

1 hour ago, Wax said:

It's a dual wield, maybe?  One standard and the other is the honorblade 

That is my theory.  Kaladin has him surrender the original blade Adolin gifted and Moash holds on to the honor blade.

I wonder if that explains the eye color--the green eyes caused by the eye colors of the swords mixing (sapphire and light tan).  

[Chiberty]

11 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

That is my theory.  Kaladin has him surrender the original blade Adolin gifted and Moash holds on to the honor blade.

I wonder if that explains the eye color--the green eyes caused by the eye colors of the swords mixing (sapphire and light tan).  

Something strange about this is that his eyes are dark green. Although, this might just be unclear wording.

[Karger]

I think it would be good to summarize Moash's most likely motives and actions.

1.  This is not Moash.  The fused do also have Lightweaver equivalents.  They know a lot about Kaladin from Moash so this guy is here to do some physiological damage to Kaladin and or take him out.

2. Moash has betrayed the fused.  It is possible that Moash is seeking if not redemption that at least death.  He is here because he wants Kaladin to either give him salvation or kill him.

3. Moash is planing on doing some sabotage with fused approval.  He may have two shardblades(his old one and J's) and can escape from any reasonable prison team radiant can put together by using Szeth's old playbook after surrendering his old one.  He can do a lot of damage at Urithiru.  Kill multiple monarchs open the place to invasion with the honorblades or just hang out in the lower levels dropping moral by picking off guard patrols.  He also might have bonded Yalig-nar to do even more damage.

4. Moash thinks he has gotten Kaladin in a position where he can benefit no matter what the outcome and has mixed motives.

5 hours ago, Karger said:

he is torturing Kaladin here.  Mocking the sanctity of his oaths.  Well Kaladin you hate me.  Protect me.  Help me.  Keep your oath Windrunner.  He is trying to stunt Kaladin's growth.  Maybe even break it.  Either Kaladin will be right and in doing so will free/save/kill Moash from his lack of passion or he will be wrong and Moash will destroy the windrunners and help Kaladin see the pointlessness of radiant behavior thus proving Moash's choices correct(kind of like how joker wants batman to kill him).  Either way Moash wins.

This may or may not be under fused approval.

5. This last one is just an extra thought.  This will lead to a fight which Moash knows it will and allow them to capture Kaladin as opposed to kill him.  This grants the fused the opportunity to kill Syl thus hurting the Stormfather.  It would also put Kaladin in the same area as Venli.

OMG 6. This could be Pai's honorblade's intro.  Think about it.  The person acts like they know Kaladin disguise themselves and have green eyes.  Pai's blade gives illumination!

Edited July 25, 2020 by Karger

[Gilphon]

Thoughts:

• That Fused clearly had experience fighting Windrunners, but was surprised by Kaladin's competence. Implying that Kaladin's spear talent is not a Windrunner thing.
• Good world building note with Kaladin considering a wooden house to be decadent. Although I'm not certain how much of that was him letting his bias against Lighteyes take control. 
• The Fused seemed to be relying purely on Transportation, not using Transformation or Cohesion at all. Further supporting evidence for the idea that each order of Fused only gets a single surge.
• Confirmation that the Fused's respawn timers are tied to the Everstorm's period. 
• The voidlight Fabrial. Do we think this is a Fabrial made with a captive voidspren, or a regular spren that's been fed voidlight instead of Stormlight? Either way I don't know why it would impede the Nahel Bond. I briefly toyed with the idea that it might be voidlight-fed Windspren, but that wouldn't have shut down Edgedancer powers.
• Roshone. Elhokar writ small, in a lot of ways. He was not a good man. He was far more directly responsible for the death of Moash's grandparents than Elhokar was. But, from what we've seen, the Desolation seemed to have brought out the best in him. Making a genuine effort to be better, to do whatever he could to help against the Fused. But Moash didn't see any of that. He saw Kaladin's Oaths forcing him to help a man who deserved to die. Which has a note of truth to it; Kaladin certainly wouldn't have rushed to help Roshone without the Oaths. But Moash also killed two other people who did nothing to deserve it; he can't make a coherent claim to the moral high ground here. 

[+Wax]

8 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

he can't make a coherent claim to the moral high ground here.

Who has?

[+Oltux72]

9 hours ago, Karger said:

Also What if it is not Moash?  The fused have Lightweaver equivalent.

Then we will learn how good an actor that Fused is. But it opens up the same question. What is worth the presumable death of two Fused and the loss of a Shard Blade?

9 hours ago, Karger said:

They are in a basement.  This is specifically why Kaladin was lured hear. 

Well, unless Kaladin straight up kills him, they will leave that basement. After that, how do you imprison him?

9 hours ago, Karger said:

And a terrifying one.  He could do a lot of damage.

Yelig-Nar is kind of unlikely to go onto an extended vacation cruise right now. He will be back.

9 hours ago, Karger said:

That means Kaladin will have time to plan.  Time in which to consult.  Time to realize that he has no chance of making the fused keep their word.

Well, strictly yes. In practice, no. That would be beyond their level. And Odium has to keep his word, as Kaladin must know by now, sitting in Dalinar's briefing sessions as senior Windrunner.

8 hours ago, Karger said:

I think it would be good to summarize Moash's most likely motives and actions.

1.  This is not Moash.  The fused do also have Lightweaver equivalents.  They know a lot about Kaladin from Moash so this guy is here to do some physiological damage to Kaladin and or take him out.

2. Moash has betrayed the fused.  It is possible that Moash is seeking if not redemption that at least death.  He is here because he wants Kaladin to either give him salvation or kill him.

Why do they let him go, especially with a Blade?

8 hours ago, Karger said:

3. Moash is planing on doing some sabotage with fused approval.  He may have two shardblades(his old one and J's) and can escape from any reasonable prison team radiant can put together by using Szeth's old playbook after surrendering his old one.  He can do a lot of damage at Urithiru.  Kill multiple monarchs open the place to invasion with the honorblades or just hang out in the lower levels dropping moral by picking off guard patrols.  He also might have bonded Yalig-nar to do even more damage.

4. Moash thinks he has gotten Kaladin in a position where he can benefit no matter what the outcome and has mixed motives.

This may or may not be under fused approval.

5. This last one is just an extra thought.  This will lead to a fight which Moash knows it will and allow them to capture Kaladin as opposed to kill him.  This grants the fused the opportunity to kill Syl thus hurting the Stormfather.  It would also put Kaladin in the same area as Venli.

OMG 6. This could be Pai's honorblade's intro.  Think about it.  The person acts like they know Kaladin disguise themselves and have green eyes.  Pai's blade gives illumination!

Well, it seems like we are entering the realm of speculation. The problem is that this is unbound a solution space. For example:
There is a plan within the plan. An Illumination Fused and a Transportatio Fused are sacrificed to get the true double agent into Urithiru: Laral has turned bad and swallowed Yelig-Nar. She will start the slaughter with Kaladin in his bed. That is the true reason Roshone had to be finished off.

3 hours ago, Gilphon said:

Thoughts:

• That Fused clearly had experience fighting Windrunners, but was surprised by Kaladin's competence. Implying that Kaladin's spear talent is not a Windrunner thing.

Right

3 hours ago, Gilphon said:

• Good world building note with Kaladin considering a wooden house to be decadent. Although I'm not certain how much of that was him letting his bias against Lighteyes take control. 

If you want real decadence, go for a Soulcast house.

3 hours ago, Gilphon said:

• The Fused seemed to be relying purely on Transportation, not using Transformation or Cohesion at all. Further supporting evidence for the idea that each order of Fused only gets a single surge.

Why has this Fused horns?

 

[+Child of Hodor]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:56 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

R.I.P Roshone. Moash is going on a total killing spree. Wonder how many named characters he will have whacked at the end of RoW? Also, why is he letting himself be caught? 

To be taken back to Urithiru. He used a dagger to kill Roshone, they may not know he has an honorblade. He can be an inside man if they assault Urithiru.

[Isilel]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

To be taken back to Urithiru. He used a dagger to kill Roshone, they may not know he has an honorblade. He can be an inside man if they assault Urithiru.

If Odium-daggers can be dismissed and summoned like honorblades, he might have a garnet and topaz-topped ones in store for Shalash and Taln, too. Or the same dagger, with stones to swap, maybe. IMHO, Moash will most likely try to steal back or free the Thrill or kill the Heralds. And if he could lead Kaladin into doubting his course/breaking his oaths in the process, that would be a cherry on top. In fact, the whole encounter may have been staged so that Kaladin would capture him and unwittingly allow him access to Urithiru. It would be too much of a coincidence otherwise.

[+Oltux72]

5 minutes ago, Isilel said:

In fact, the whole encounter may have been staged so that Kaladin would capture him and unwittingly allow him access to Urithiru. It would be too much of a coincidence otherwise.

It looks to me that way, too. Yet Kaladin is not an idiot. Why would it not look that way to him? So how can Moash (or whoever is wearing his disguise) hope to be taken to Urithiru? In fact given what he did to Elhokar, how can he hope not to be executed? Kaladin may have a problem with that, but Dalinar, Navani or Jasnah?

[Toaster Retribution]

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

To be taken back to Urithiru. He used a dagger to kill Roshone, they may not know he has an honorblade. He can be an inside man if they assault Urithiru.

He used the Blade to kill some others first. So I think they know. 

[Harbour]

Do anyone consider the possibility of Kaladin killing armed or even unarmed Moash by the end of Act 1? Like, with certain context, like, Moash forcing Kaladin to do it to prevent something more terrible? It would be really unexpected if Moash will die just there.

[Red Windrunner]

Keep in mind Roshone was the lord influencing Elhokar that got Moash’s family killed. It makes perfect sense that after the king, Moash would hunt for Roshone to get his vengeance. I could see him legitimately surrendering if his bloodlust is over. But I could also see him feeling betrayed by Kal and Bridge 4. 

[Karger]

21 hours ago, Gilphon said:

That Fused clearly had experience fighting Windrunners, but was surprised by Kaladin's competence. Implying that Kaladin's spear talent is not a Windrunner thing.

Or that the Radiants in prior desolations often did not have time to train in practical military skills and instead relied on surges.

21 hours ago, Gilphon said:

Good world building note with Kaladin considering a wooden house to be decadent. Although I'm not certain how much of that was him letting his bias against Lighteyes take control. 

Or his general grumpiness about people who do less then practical things(like celebrate birthdays).

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Then we will learn how good an actor that Fused is. But it opens up the same question. What is worth the presumable death of two Fused and the loss of a Shard Blade?

Separating Kaladin from the rest of the army for a while.  I would also note that the death of a fused is not really significant.  Only the shardblade and void fabrial.

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, unless Kaladin straight up kills him, they will leave that basement. After that, how do you imprison him?

I think they know Kaladin will not.  Moash has had a year of training.  Kaladin's heart would not be in it.  We also don't know what is happening next.  If Moash stalls for a minute or two he can probably get backup.  If he does actually surrender then a number of possibilities come into play.

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, strictly yes. In practice, no. That would be beyond their level. And Odium has to keep his word, as Kaladin must know by now, sitting in Dalinar's briefing sessions as senior Windrunner.

Odium so far has not shown personal interest in Kaladin.  He also would not personally promise Kaladin anything because that would mean showing up and talking to him(a dangerous thing to do if Dalinar is still around).

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why do they let him go, especially with a Blade?

How do they keep him there.  Especially with a blade?

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

There is a plan within the plan. An Illumination Fused and a Transportatio Fused are sacrificed to get the true double agent into Urithiru: Laral has turned bad and swallowed Yelig-Nar. She will start the slaughter with Kaladin in his bed. That is the true reason Roshone had to be finished off.

Those are too unlikely and impractical.  If this is Moash and he actually surrenders I am not sure Kaladin's oaths would permit him to not accept.  Same in terms of tactical sense especially if it means getting a blade back.  Moash might or might not be working with the fused with or without their knowledge.  Assuming any of those conditions we can come up with reasonable potential solutions.

18 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

If you want real decadence, go for a Soulcast house.

Not really.  Common soldiers often slept in soulcast bunkers.

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yet Kaladin is not an idiot. Why would it not look that way to him? So how can Moash (or whoever is wearing his disguise) hope to be taken to Urithiru? In fact given what he did to Elhokar, how can he hope not to be executed? Kaladin may have a problem with that, but Dalinar, Navani or Jasnah?

None of them know Moash personally.  If he surrenders don't the codes of war apply to him especially if he occasionally gives team radiant useful information?

7 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

He used the Blade to kill some others first. So I think they know. 

They know he has A blade.  They don't know he has an Honorblade.  Given that he has the wrong eye color doesn't that indicate that he has either more then one or a different one ATM.

42 minutes ago, Red Windrunner said:

Keep in mind Roshone was the lord influencing Elhokar that got Moash’s family killed. It makes perfect sense that after the king, Moash would hunt for Roshone to get his vengeance. I could see him legitimately surrendering if his bloodlust is over. But I could also see him feeling betrayed by Kal and Bridge 4. 

Except Moash doesn't seem to know about Roshone during books 1-3.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Karger

[+Oltux72]

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Separating Kaladin from the rest of the army for a while.  I would also note that the death of a fused is not really significant.  Only the shardblade and void fabrial.

Yes. A Honor blade if he is carrying it. You do guard that and not risk it without very good reason.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

I think they know Kaladin will not.  Moash has had a year of training.  Kaladin's heart would not be in it.  We also don't know what is happening next.  If Moash stalls for a minute or two he can probably get backup.  If he does actually surrender then a number of possibilities come into play.

Why did he not fight with his side earlier? I am afraid it is far likelier that he actually does surrender.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Odium so far has not shown personal interest in Kaladin.

It would not be a personal interest in Kaladin. It would be an interest in somebody whom his side has leverage over in Urithiru.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

 He also would not personally promise Kaladin anything because that would mean showing up and talking to him(a dangerous thing to do if Dalinar is still around).

Getting a message to a Windrunner is comparatively easy. They cannot kill somebody under a flag of parlay. Odium for sure has a way to get messages to Urithiru. Malata opening the oath gate at exactly the right time shows that.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

How do they keep him there.  Especially with a blade?

You kill him. As soon as somebody with assets as Vyre (Moash) carried becomes dubious in his loyalty or obediance, he is becoming a liability. You get rid of him.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Those are too unlikely and impractical.  If this is Moash and he actually surrenders I am not sure Kaladin's oaths would permit him to not accept.  Same in terms of tactical sense especially if it means getting a blade back.  Moash might or might not be working with the fused with or without their knowledge.  Assuming any of those conditions we can come up with reasonable potential solutions.

That is the problem. Unlimited, for practical purposes, possibilities. But the Fused also face that possibility. This operation seems to depend on many unpredictable events. Lift for example might have entered the cellar.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Not really.  Common soldiers often slept in soulcast bunkers.

Long supply lines do odd things to economics. Especially on a world where chull carts are the best means of land transport.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

None of them know Moash personally.

A mother, sister and uncle not asking details on how their son (brother, nephew) died? Especially if they have the professional task of making him look good and heroic in a eulogy? While caring for his son who will one day ask how his father died? When having a professional duty to find out how the enemy defeated a Shardbearer?

6 hours ago, Karger said:

If he surrenders don't the codes of war apply to him especially if he occasionally gives team radiant useful information?

Now that is a question a lawyer would love. You could argue that he has not disarmed himself. They certainly can put him on trial anfor d find him guilty of treason. He joined the other side in a war and killed his king. If they want his head, they can have it, looking prim and proper doing so.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Except Moash doesn't seem to know about Roshone during books 1-3.

A year has passed. For all we know Moash's hobby is slowly torturing to death all lighteyes who worked in the prison his grandparents died or worked in law enforcement and the judiciary. Odium would like that, I am sure.

[Aglaia]

11 hours ago, Karger said:

Except Moash doesn't seem to know about Roshone during books 1-3.

Moash knows about Roshone. Kaladin tells him at the end of Words of Radiance

Quote

WoR 83  “It wasn’t his fault,” Kaladin said. “But I’d be here even if it had been, Moash! We have to be better than this, you and I. It’s . . . I can’t explain it, not perfectly. You have to trust me. Back down. The king hasn’t yet seen you or Graves. We’ll go to Dalinar, and I’ll see that you get justice against the right man, Roshone, the one truly behind your grandparents’ deaths.

 

 

[Watchcry]

On 7/24/2020 at 1:13 PM, Oltux72 said:

So the Radiants are sending in Lift, Godeki and Shallan without backup transport? Not really a well planned mission.

I don't think you meant Shallan, as she and Adolin have a different mission. At least according to the new book description.  But I suppose it could be later in the book when she goes on that mission. 

Shallan just had a PoV in that chapter,  but wasn't necessary physical where Kal was. 

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why did he not fight with his side earlier? I am afraid it is far likelier that he actually does surrender.

Maybe he just go hear?

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Getting a message to a Windrunner is comparatively easy. They cannot kill somebody under a flag of parlay. Odium for sure has a way to get messages to Urithiru. Malata opening the oath gate at exactly the right time shows that.

Getting a message would not be hard but for Odium's promise to be binding he would have to make it in person.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That is the problem. Unlimited, for practical purposes, possibilities. But the Fused also face that possibility. This operation seems to depend on many unpredictable events. Lift for example might have entered the cellar.

Actually I don't think they new anyone but Kaladin and maybe some of his squires would be here.  The fight upstairs seems contrived to separate everyone from  Kaladin.  Even if it was not Kaladin personally any member of bridge four would be in the same situation.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

A mother, sister and uncle not asking details on how their son (brother, nephew) died? Especially if they have the professional task of making him look good and heroic in a eulogy? While caring for his son who will one day ask how his father died? When having a professional duty to find out how the enemy defeated a Shardbearer?

We don't know if Kaladin told them anything about Moash.  Why would they suspect Elhokar was killed by someone Kaladin new?

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You kill him. As soon as somebody with assets as Vyre (Moash) carried becomes dubious in his loyalty or obediance, he is becoming a liability. You get rid of him.

But they don't know he has a blade or any surges.

3 hours ago, Aglaia said:

Moash knows about Roshone. Kaladin tells him at the end of Words of Radiance

But he ignores Kaladin there.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Now that is a question a lawyer would love. You could argue that he has not disarmed himself. They certainly can put him on trial anfor d find him guilty of treason. He joined the other side in a war and killed his king. If they want his head, they can have it, looking prim and proper doing so.

If he does disarm himself of at least one blade and they don't know about any other he has then I think you have to accept his surrender.