Blind Knights Radiant

[Hen]

@Nymeros correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that your argument is that a spren would not choose to bond a blind person because they could not make the most use of their powers. 
I disagree 
Surges that can be used without sight:

Transformation, adhesion, progression, transportation, cohesion, tension (we don’t know a lot about cohesion and tension, but from what we do know, sight is not required.)

Surges that may require guidance from spren, but are still possible and usefull without sight:

Gravitation, division, abrasion

Illumination is the only surge that would be highly difficult to do without sight. Though with help from the radiant spren, and dedication, it is not impossible. (Though it’s important to understand that Lightweaving is not only illusions, but sound as well) 

it’s just like @AonEne said. If in the past spren had only chosen Radiants that were in the best positions in life, Kaladin would not be a windrunner. Renarin would not be- whatever he is. Shallan would not be a Lightweaver. The Radiants we have now are not Radiant because they were perfect. They are Radiant because they deserve to be, because they caught the attention of the right spren and worked/are working through their unique obstacles. I don’t see why blindness is any different. 
 

You also mentioned that a blind person would not be as useful as a sighted person. I see the point you are trying to make here, but someone who is blind can be usefull in other ways, for example: we rely on our eyes to see the world, but those that are blind can’t do that, they need to use their other senses. A sighted person might miss that soft clicking In the corner of the room, or the soft smell of alcohol on the air. They may notice something someone with sight is, if you’ll excuse my choice of words, blind to.

Those without sight see the world differently, but that does not mean they don’t see the world. 

[Blind Radiant]

@Hentient and @AonEne, thank you! I love what each of you said about the spren bond. As has been said before, spren pick their radiants based on personality and the things that are important to them. If I was on Roshar for example, and if I attracted a spren, I think I’d probably turn out to be an Edgedancer. A lot of the things that are important to that order are important to me, and the ideals speak to me as well. 
Using Edgedancers as an example, notice that none of the ideals says anything about seeing. 
The first ideal: “Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.” I don’t see what would keep a blind person from saying these words. There’s nothing within them that would prevent the person from living the ideal.

Second Edgedancer ideal: “I will remember those who have been forgotten.” Surprise. Blind people can remember things at least as well as anyone else. I personally have a great memory for certain things, so I don’t see what would keep me from living this ideal. You don’t need to be able to see to remember.

Third Edgedancer ideal: “I will listen to those who are ignored.” If there’s one thing that blind people have to learn to be very good at, it’s listening and hearing what’s going on around them. I can’t explain how important my sense of hearing is to me in everything I do. This ideal seems to be perfectly crafted for somebody who can’t see what’s going on around them. A blind person would most definitely be able to live up to this.

This is only one part of being an Edgedancer, but if a blind person can say and live up to the ideals, I don’t see what would keep them from doing almost everything else that a sighted member of this order could do. there are things that would be more difficult, but with the radiant and there spren working together, I’m sure a solution could be reached.

This was obviously only discussing one order, but if I can think of how it would work for this one, I’m sure there are ways it can work for the others.

I could address the other things y’all have discussed, but I don’t have much more to add other than reinforcing what you already said. This comment is getting very long anyway, so I’ll leave it here for now.

[Frustration]

On 6/3/2020 at 1:39 AM, AonEne said:

• an investigation is being held about a murder. Radiant assists in looking into it 

Very poor choice of words

(I'm sorry I had to.)

[+robardin]

On 6/3/2020 at 10:09 AM, Hentient said:

People that are blind cannot/mostly cannot see. Does this mean that they cannot hear? Can a blind person not talk through anothers problems, and help them through it? (If you ask me the Knights Radiant could use a therapist). Does being blind mean that they cannot feel? Do they not know what is around them simply because of their vision? Can a Blind man not smell? Taste? or Talk? Can they not Take in what is around them and react to it simply because they have one sense missing? ...

Some one that fights and struggles, and makes it work? that sounds Like a Knights Radiant to me. That sounds like someone that a spren would choose.

The spren form Nahel bonds with people based on how that person reaches out to express or capture some Ideal that is attractive to them, not based on exactly how they would use the resulting Surges.

Lopen is not just a Windrunner squire but has bonded an honorspren without being a leader like Teft, or a natural warrior like Kaladin. His domain of "protecting" has to do with the emotional and the mental aspects of protection, as we see what it took for him to reach the Second Ideal at the end of Oathbringer - for him to "protect those who cannot protect themselves" meant reaching out and saving a Herdazian amputee from despair. To extend the same strength of emotional core to others that preserved his humanity and sense of humor through whatever happened to him to see him depart his homeland of Herdaz as a child, lose an arm long ago, eventually get branded a slave, and ultimately sent to Sadeas' bridge camps.

Personally I think a blind Truthwatcher, depending on what exactly that means as we find out in later books, could be an extremely interesting take. Less distraction from What's Really There to be perceived or understood at a deep level, you know?

[Nymeros]

23 hours ago, AonEne said:

Of course I do.

Cool. I see we're definitely not going to reach any agreement there then.

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You don’t know that, and can’t unless Brandon confirms it. While different life experiences can drastically change people, it’s not a rule. Jasnah is very stubborn, intelligent, logical, not great with people, and loves history. There’s no reason why any of that would necessarily change if she’d grown up blind, and because she would most likely still have those core personality traits, Ivory would still bond her. 

Eh. We're doing nature vs nurture now? We've seen one character in the Cosmere whose personality and abilities change with her origins which she alters through realmatic magic. Brandon wrote an entire book based on the concept of altering the past to effect the present. It's cool to say that it's possible that Jasnah would be exactly the same and sure, possible, but probable?

...eh. 

20 hours ago, Hentient said:

@Nymeros correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that your argument is that a spren would not choose to bond a blind person because they could not make the most use of their powers. 

Yes, I stated that directly.

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I disagree 

Word?

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Surges that can be used without sight:

All surges can be used by the blind but not as well as a person with sight in most instances. Again I'm not saying its impossible for a blind person to be a Radiant. I just think it's unlikely....due the blindness. 

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I don’t see why blindness is any different. 

I do. Time will possibly tell...or not.

How about this....which do you think we be more effective overall:

-Every Radiant has psychological hang ups (as is pretty normal in world)

-Every Radiant is blind

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Those without sight see the world differently, but that does not mean they don’t see the world. 

Yes in a far more limited way. A sighted person can pick up smells and sounds as well as a blind person if they focused but most people don't train those senses because sight is such a powerful tool.

[AonEne]

20 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

We've seen one character in the Cosmere whose personality and abilities change with her origins which she alters through realmatic magic. Brandon wrote an entire book based on the concept of altering the past to effect the present. It's cool to say that it's possible that Jasnah would be exactly the same and sure, possible, but probable?

Shai specifically changed major parts of her past. If this one singular thing had been changed, it might change some parts of Jasnah from ripple effect, but I don’t see any reason why it would have a huge impact on her core character traits. She’s the type of person not to let something like blindness stop her. Maybe you would be, and you could judge yourself best, but not everyone would become an entirely different person.

20 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

How about this....which do you think we be more effective overall:

-Every Radiant has psychological hang ups (as is pretty normal in world)

-Every Radiant is blind

Every Radiant being blind and without psychological disorders, easy. Both can be gotten around, but in my experience, from what I’ve seen, it is (usually) far more difficult to get over psychological issues. Kaladin isn’t depressed, Teft isn’t addicted and doesn’t hate himself, Dalinar never spirals into flashbacks and alcoholism? That solves SO MANY THINGS. No more champion for Odium! Someone write this fanfic 

20 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Yes in a far more limited way. A sighted person can pick up smells and sounds as well as a blind person if they focused but most people don't train those senses because sight is such a powerful tool.

You said it yourself, most people don’t train those senses. Therefore they’re not helpful with them. 

[Nymeros]

6 minutes ago, AonEne said:

She’s the type of person not to let something like blindness stop her. Maybe you would be, and you could judge yourself best, but not everyone would become an entirely different person.

Do you believe that people are almost entirely defined by genetically and spiritually inherited traits that are immutable regardless of circumstances? If so, this is another point we can agree to disagree on.

[AonEne]

20 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Do you believe that people are almost entirely defined by genetically and spiritually inherited traits that are immutable regardless of circumstances? If so, this is another point we can agree to disagree on.

Certainly not entirely. To some extent I believe they are, to some extent not. You get traits from both nature and nurture. But honestly I’m having trouble seeing how an alternate universe where Jasnah is blind is relevant to this discussion; it’s been established that she’s a capable person, I don’t understand why you think she’d suddenly stop being herself because she went blind. If anything, I feel like the ripple effects would be to make her even more of a fighter, even more determined to prove her worth with scholarship; she’d have another hurdle to get past, and so far Jasnah shines at that. 

[+robardin]

9 hours ago, AonEne said:

Certainly not entirely. To some extent I believe they are, to some extent not. You get traits from both nature and nurture. But honestly I’m having trouble seeing how an alternate universe where Jasnah is blind is relevant to this discussion; it’s been established that she’s a capable person, I don’t understand why you think she’d suddenly stop being herself because she went blind. If anything, I feel like the ripple effects would be to make her even more of a fighter, even more determined to prove her worth with scholarship; she’d have another hurdle to get past, and so far Jasnah shines at that. 

I agree with this. Blind Jasnah would certainly have things to overcome in Alethkar, and we haven't seen any blind or deaf people "on-screen" so we don't know what kinds of in-world prejudices or accommodations exist. Scholarship in particular would be a challenge - women do all the reading and writing, is there a "Braille" equivalent for the blind or vision impaired, and how much material is there like that? Or would Blind Jasnah require a very trusted assistant?

However that detail would work, I have no doubt that "Blind Jasnah" would still be Jasnah, even if blind from birth. For one, whatever accommodations or aids would be necessary to function as a blind scholar in Alethkar, the daughter of King Gavilar would have it. For another, she's far too iron of will and keen of mind to simply stay in or to retreat into a shell of limitations. She would overcome them.

And it's that, plus her keen mind (and proximity to other "spren-attracting" types like her father was), which led to her forming a Nahel bond with Ivory.

And don't underestimate the "visual distraction" aspect of certain kinds of abstract thinking, exactly the domain that Jasnah is strongest in (and what makes her an Elsecaller, the Order with the strongest affinity to the Cognitive Realm). I understand that it's counter-intuitive, but did you know that some of the greatest contributions to the mathematical fields of geometry and topology, the study of shapes and surfaces and their properties, have been made by blind people, and in fact, blind mathematicians are heavily skewed to those fields? It's almost as if the visual cortex parts of the brain that are not "fed" by optical input can become a kind of "GPU unit" for spatial imagining.

And yes, of course blind people have a concept of "space". They can walk around a room and know where things are relative to other things and themselves, right?

[Frustration]

10 hours ago, AonEne said:

Every Radiant being blind and without psychological disorders, easy. Both can be gotten around, but in my experience, from what I’ve seen, it is (usually) far more difficult to get over psychological issues. Kaladin isn’t depressed, Teft isn’t addicted and doesn’t hate himself, Dalinar never spirals into flashbacks and alcoholism? That solves SO MANY THINGS. No more champion for Odium! Someone write this fanfic

Kaladin and Dalinar are on the Extreme end, the thing is most people have some physiological disorder or another, 1 in 4 people have depression on one level or another, it's not a fair comparison. The knights with mental disorders are far more capable of handling their duties than blind Radiants. I'm not trying to step on toes but I know I'm going to regardless,  this is not an attack on blind people but physiological disorders are just so much easier to treat or even ignore.

[Blind Radiant]

10 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Cool. I see we're definitely not going to reach any agreement there then.

Eh. We're doing nature vs nurture now? We've seen one character in the Cosmere whose personality and abilities change with her origins which she alters through realmatic magic. Brandon wrote an entire book based on the concept of altering the past to effect the present. It's cool to say that it's possible that Jasnah would be exactly the same and sure, possible, but probable?

...eh. 

Yes, I stated that directly.

Word?

All surges can be used by the blind but not as well as a person with sight in most instances. Again I'm not saying its impossible for a blind person to be a Radiant. I just think it's unlikely....due the blindness. 

I do. Time will possibly tell...or not.

How about this....which do you think we be more effective overall:

-Every Radiant has psychological hang ups (as is pretty normal in world)

-Every Radiant is blind

Yes in a far more limited way. A sighted person can pick up smells and sounds as well as a blind person if they focused but most people don't train those senses because sight is such a powerful tool.

Sight might be a powerful tool, but let me ask you this: when was the last time you paid close attention to the scent of a flower, and only its scent? When was the last time you enjoyed the taste of your favorite food, and focused only on the taste? When was the last time you pet a cat or dog, and focused only on the texture of the animal’s fur? When was the last time you listened to your favorite song, and focused only on the sounds of the music? Each of your other senses is also powerful. You just focus too much on the information given you by the two orbs in your face to notice the rest. In that context, I wonder which of us is really at a disadvantage...

[+robardin]

19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Kaladin and Dalinar are on the Extreme end, the thing is most people have some physiological disorder or another, 1 in 4 people have depression on one level or another, it's not a fair comparison. The knights with mental disorders are far more capable of handling their duties than blind Radiants. I'm not trying to step on toes but I know I'm going to regardless,  this is not an attack on blind people but physiological disorders are just so much easier to treat or even ignore.

Taking this statement at face value, there is still something wrong with the premise: that the spren are choosing people to bond with based on "how capably they will handle their duties as a Radiant", and furthermore, that their primary view of those duties are those that require physical attributes to fulfill (e.g., hand to hand combat being best done with all limbs functioning, all five senses, etc.).

We already have numerous counterexamples to the latter. Lopen, Lift, and The Stump surely were not chosen based on combat ability with Shardblades or Shardplate (which don't come until the Third and Fourth Ideals, anyway).

OK, so maybe you weren't specifically looking at combat. So what "duties" of a Radiant is precluded by what you call a "physiological disorder"?

Because there is not an ideal of a "Surgebinder in action" for the spren when they choose a human to bond with - "A Windrunner's gotta fly!" - there is an ideal of spirit, of character, of choices of action and the reasons for those choices, that they are attracted to (honorspren are attracted to honor). The Surges and their resulting applications and uses will then foillow as a result, not as a predicate.

As Teft explained (his view of) part of the Immortal Words: "Journey before destination... In the end, all men die. How you lived will be far more important to the Almighty than what you accomplished."

And so for a spren, what attracts is what a person is, what a person represents, not what acts a person can accomplish - or specifically, how one might accomplish them.

[Nymeros]

9 hours ago, AonEne said:

But honestly I’m having trouble seeing how an alternate universe where Jasnah is blind is relevant to this discussion

Why are you commenting on it then AonEne? I was replying to another poster.

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it’s been established that she’s a capable person, I don’t understand why you think she’d suddenly stop being herself because she went blind.

I haven't discussed Jasnah going blind at all. I'm discussing whether Gavilar's daughter would any different if she was born blind. Is it possible she would resemble the Jasnah? Sure, it's possible but extremely unlikely. 

She wouldn't even be able to effectively engage with the feminine arts but she would be still be scholarly minded? Sure maybe, but as I said previously, eh.

7 minutes ago, Blind Radiant said:

Sight might be a powerful tool, but let me ask you this:

It's all good BR. We just disagree entirely on whether paying attention to other sensory input is a greater advantage than being able to see.

[Frustration]

12 minutes ago, robardin said:

Taking this statement at face value, there is still something wrong with the premise: that the spren are choosing people to bond with based on "how capably they will handle their duties as a Radiant", and furthermore, that their primary view of those duties are those that require physical attributes to fulfill (e.g., hand to hand combat being best done with all limbs functioning, all five senses, etc.).

We already have numerous counterexamples to the latter. Lopen, Lift, and The Stump surely were not chosen based on combat ability with Shardblades or Shardplate (which don't come until the Third and Fourth Ideals, anyway).

OK, so maybe you weren't specifically looking at combat. So what "duties" of a Radiant is precluded by what you call a "physiological disorder"?

Because there is not an ideal of a "Surgebinder in action" for the spren when they choose a human to bond with - "A Windrunner's gotta fly!" - there is an ideal of spirit, of character, of choices of action and the reasons for those choices, that they are attracted to (honorspren are attracted to honor). The Surges and their resulting applications and uses will then foillow as a result, not as a predicate.

As Teft explained (his view of) part of the Immortal Words: "Journey before destination... In the end, all men die. How you lived will be far more important to the Almighty than what you accomplished."

And so for a spren, what attracts is what a person is, what a person represents, not what acts a person can accomplish - or specifically, how one might accomplish them.

I was specifically referring to Ene saying that being blind was preferable to phycological disorders for the Radiant's jobs. I was not saying that that is how Spren think, but I don't think it's out of the picture. We just don't know how Spren think yet.

[Blind Radiant]

5 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Why are you commenting on it then AonEne? I was replying to another poster.

I haven't discussed Jasnah going blind at all. I'm discussing whether Gavilar's daughter would any different if she was born blind. Is it possible she would resemble the Jasnah? Sure, it's possible but extremely unlikely. 

She wouldn't even be able to effectively engage with the feminine arts but she would be still be scholarly minded? Sure maybe, but as I said previously, eh.

It's all good BR. We just disagree entirely on whether paying attention to other sensory input is a greater advantage than being able to see.

Jasnah may not have been able to read, write, or do some of the other feminine arts without assistance if she had been born blind, but she could still play music and sing. 
I think what I have to say about other senses outweighs what you do. I am the blind one, after all.

As multiple people have said before, spren are attracted by a person’s personality, the things that are important to them, etc. If a blind Rosharan has all the right qualities to become a Bondsmith for example, then they should be able to form the bond. Plus, Bondsmiths aren’t supposed to use their powers to fight, at least if what the Stormfather told Dalinar holds true for the other two possible Bondsmiths. A blind Bondsmith would be able to use their powers quite effectively without having to worry about fighting.

[Hen]

11 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Yes in a far more limited way. A sighted person can pick up smells and sounds as well as a blind person if they focused but most people don't train those senses because sight is such a powerful tool.

This is exactly what I was saying. We can use our other senses, they are just as powerful as sight, but we don’t. We don’t have to rely on our other senses, so when it comes down to it, it’s easy to be distracted by what we see. 
Imagine a situation where visibility is limited. 
it could be night time, in the middle of a dust cloud, or someone’s eyes were impaired moments before. It could be anything. 
who do you think would do better in that situation? Would it be the person who grew up relying on their sight? Who is unpracticed using their other senses to their full potential? Or would it be the person who grew up finding other ways to interact with their world? Who knows how to deal with things without their sight? A master of using sound, touch, and smells? Personally I think it’s obvious who would come out on top. 
 

As to the point of Jasnah being blind. That was an example, to show that someone who is blind can still attract spren. If you think Jasnah would be different had she been born blind, great, good for you. But for the sake of argument, imagine she was the same. She was still scholarly and pragmatic. She was still her. She still would have attracted Ivory, regardless of her sight, because Ivory cares about whether or not someone thinks before they act, not about vision. Physicality hasn’t mattered to spren before, and I don’t understand why it would matter now. Spren care about how someone acts, why they act. It doesn’t matter the limitations someone may or may not have on those actions, only the reasoning behind them.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hentient

[Karger]

11 hours ago, Nymeros said:

It's cool to say that it's possible that Jasnah would be exactly the same and sure, possible, but probable?

I have an extremely hard time believing that Jasnah would be anyone but Jasnah under almost any circumstances.  If she grew up blind I am sure Navani would still have loved and supported her and that Gavilar would still have ignored her.  Also considering Vorin rules about literacy I am sure that Jasnah could easily get one or two dozen woman to read things to her or take dictation.  I see no reason why she could not become a scholar or that her personality would not have emerged the same way.

[Blind Radiant]

25 minutes ago, Hentient said:

This is exactly what I was saying. We can use our other senses, they are just as powerful as sight, but we don’t. We don’t have to rely on our other senses, so when it comes down to it, it’s easy to be distracted by what we see. 
Imagine a situation where visibility is limited. 
it could be night time, in the middle of a dust cloud, or someone’s eyes were impaired moments before. It could be anything. 
who do you think would do better in that situation? Would it be the person who grew up relying on their sight? Who is unpracticed using their other senses to their full potential? Or would it be the person who grew up finding other ways to interact with their world? Who knows how to deal with things without their sight? A master of using sound, touch, and smells? Personally I think it’s obvious who would come out on top. 
 

As to the point of Jasnah being blind. That was an example, to show that someone who is blind can still attract spren. If you think Jasnah would be different had she been born blind, great, good for you. But for the sake of argument, imagine she was the same. She was still scholarly and pragmatic. She was still her. She still would have attracted Ivory, regardless of her sight, because Ivory cares about whether or not someone thinks before they act, not about vision. Physicality hasn’t mattered to spren before, and I don’t understand why it would matter now. Spren care about how someone acts, why they act. It doesn’t matter the limitations someone may or may not have on those actions, only the reasoning behind them.

This exactly! I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to imagine using their other senses in various situations.

If it’s this difficult for modern people to understand how blind people can do certain things, imagine how much harder it would be on Roshar for a blind Alethi. They would have to work for their entire life just to be seen as capable, let alone equal with everyone around them. I would love to see this actually play out in one of the books. I’m not gonna hold my breth though.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Blind Radiant

[Nymeros]

31 minutes ago, Blind Radiant said:

she could still play music and sing. 

Oh, that sounds so much like my Jasnah.

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I think what I have to say about other senses outweighs what you do. I am the blind one, after all.

I think you just don't know what you're missing. I've seen testimonies from others who confirm that sensory input is not particularly powerful...its just a skill they were forced to learn.

24 minutes ago, Hentient said:

Imagine a situation where visibility is limited. 
it could be night time, in the middle of a dust cloud, or someone’s eyes were impaired moments before. It could be anything. 
who do you think would do better in that situation? 

Imagine a situation where you are deafened by loud explosion. Who will navigate better afterward, a seeing person or a blind person?

I find this sort of argument silly. Obviously a blind person will handle blindness better than a person used to sight just as a boxer would handle a fight better than an untrained individual. Who cares?

 

Again, which do you think we be more effective overall:

-Every Radiant has psychological hang ups (as is pretty normal in world)

-Every Radiant is blind

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As to the point of Jasnah being blind. That was an example, to show that someone who is blind can still attract spren.

No it isn't. It's just a hypothetical situation you made up.

23 minutes ago, Karger said:

I have an extremely hard time believing that Jasnah would be anyone but Jasnah under almost any circumstances.  If she grew up blind I am sure Navani would still have loved and supported her and that Gavilar would still have ignored her.  Also considering Vorin rules about literacy I am sure that Jasnah could easily get one or two dozen woman to read things to her or take dictation.  I see no reason why she could not become a scholar or that her personality would not have emerged the same way.

Or maybe Gavilar would have doted on her. Maybe being forced to rely on others would have greatly dampened her independent streak and confidence. Maybe Jasnah would care about having a masculine relationship with literature and learning. Again, it's entirely possible this blind woman would be similar to Jasnah we know now. I find it unlikely.

[Hen]

1 minute ago, Nymeros said:

No it isn't. It's just a hypothetical situation you made up.

Yes, to prove a point.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to believe that people who are blind are still people who have feelings and are capable of doing things just like everyone else. 

[Karger]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nymeros said:

Or maybe Gavilar would have doted on her

That is not the Gavilar I know.  His widow claims that he gave her ample reason to cheat on him, his brother expresses anger for never being considered, his son has a conscious unfulfilled need for his approval and even his daughter claims she had a hard time connecting with him.  Also he literally locked her in the dark during a childhood episode traumatizing her.

On 6/5/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nymeros said:

Maybe being forced to rely on others would have greatly dampened her independent streak and confidence

I never saw Jasnah being insecure.  She knows that relying on others for tasks you can't do yourself is a necessary part of life.  She may have hatted being wrong but she new better then to avoid admitting it.  When she needs something drawn she directs Shallan to do it because Shallan is better at it.  When she needs a ship she hires a crew of experienced sailors.  None of this altered her confidence.

On 6/5/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nymeros said:

Maybe Jasnah would care about having a masculine relationship with literature and learning

Jasnah is also the world's preeminent feminist.  She studied tactics and warfare and can use a shardblade with a reasonable level of proficiency.  I think, supported by her writings, that she was confident enough in herself and her femininity not to care that her scholarly nature would be considered masculine by some bigots.

On 6/5/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nymeros said:

Again, it's entirely possible this blind woman would be similar to Jasnah we know now. I find it unlikely.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion. However even though I lack personal experience but I think I can say with a great deal of confidence that being blind does not fundamentally change who you are as a person.  An individual as strong confident and mature as Jasnah letting blindness get in the way of her life sounds, respectfully, almost laughable to me given how she is regarded by people the people who know her.  I can just imagine a scene were Jasnah is being talked down to by one of the Alethi mean girls and just smashes her.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Karger

[Blind Radiant]

29 minutes ago, Hentient said:

Yes, to prove a point.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to believe that people who are blind are still people who have feelings and are capable of doing things just like everyone else. 

Apparently, being unable to see completely negates a person’s strengths and virtues. Apparently, blind people are incapable of doing anything meaningful just because we can’t see. At least, that’s what this person seems to think.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Hentient said:

This is exactly what I was saying. We can use our other senses, they are just as powerful as sight, but we don’t. We don’t have to rely on our other senses, so when it comes down to it, it’s easy to be distracted by what we see. 
Imagine a situation where visibility is limited. 
it could be night time, in the middle of a dust cloud, or someone’s eyes were impaired moments before. It could be anything. 
who do you think would do better in that situation? Would it be the person who grew up relying on their sight? Who is unpracticed using their other senses to their full potential? Or would it be the person who grew up finding other ways to interact with their world? Who knows how to deal with things without their sight? A master of using sound, touch, and smells? Personally I think it’s obvious who would come out on top. 

I'm sorry but that is false. Sight is mobility. There is a reason that every dominate species has eyes, they're so useful. I would dull all my other senses just to keep sight. A person who can see can run in an entirely new environment without fear, unless you strait up get echolocation you can't do that with hearing. What do you do when you hear something threatening? You turn to look at it. Sight is by far and away the most powerful of the five.

[Hen]

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I'm sorry but that is false. Sight is mobility. There is a reason that every dominate species has eyes, they're so useful. I would dull all my other senses just to keep sight. A person who can see can run in an entirely new environment without fear, unless you strait up get echolocation you can't do that with hearing. What do you do when you hear something threatening? You turn to look at it. Sight is by far and away the most powerful of the five.

Fair point, sight is the most usefull, but that doesn’t mean those without it are incapable. 
 

Though, some of the surges might give a Blind Radiant some resemblance of echolocation. Adhesion, for example (especially spiritual adhesion) 

[Frustration]

21 minutes ago, Hentient said:

Fair point, sight is the most usefull, but that doesn’t mean those without it are incapable. 
 

Though, some of the surges might give a Blind Radiant some resemblance of echolocation. Adhesion, for example (especially spiritual adhesion) 

Wait, that's brilliant, although it would be Illumination as that's the surge of sound and all.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Frustration