Peaceful and warlike Nations of Roshar

[Diomedes]

I noticed you can chart the nations of Roshar on a spectrum from warlike to peaceful from East to West. 

In the East you have the Alethi, clearly the best warriors of Roshar, Jah Keved is decent in matters of war. The Azir are bureaucratic and do not tend to fight that much. The Shin are the pacifists of Roshar.  

This can`t be a coincidence. Is there already a theory on this? Or did I miss something while reading? 

Edit: The Alethi are influenced more than any others by the Thrill, which would explain their warlike nature. This can`t explain the entire pattern however. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Diomedes

[Frustration]

Well the shin did invade some, who knows how long ago, so if it is a magic thing it happened relatively recently.

[Diomedes]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Well the shin did invade some, who knows how long ago, so if it is a magic thing it happened relatively recently.

 Can`t help but think that those invasions had some higher supernatural purpose that is going to be important in the next books. That one-off does not really break the pattern.

  

[Karger]

It might be at least partially geographic.  Warfare is more profitable farther east as the storms are stronger there and that necessitates architectural changes that make cities more vulnerable.   Also more soulcasters are in the east because of the sunmaker which makes war easy.  Also keep in mind that you are simplifying.  Emul and Tukar have been at war for quite some time despite being strait south of the purelake which is one of the most chill places on Roshar. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Karger

[Elsecaller_17.5]

As has been pointed out it isn't a hard rule but there's enough of a pattern to theorize. Keeping in mind that the vorin, honor based religion is prevalent in the west and the Cultivation nightwatcher religion is common in the west. This suggests a honor-Cultivation gradient across roshar.

@Karger the emul-tukar war is driven by a long insane herald so it might not be the best data point.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Elsecaller_17.5

[Karger]

24 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

@Karger the emul-tukar war is driven by a long insane herald so it might not be the best data point.

That is just current supposedly they have been at war for a considerable amount of time.  We also don't know what the heralds(and possibly the stormfather) have done that has sparked other conflicts.  If you want another counterpoint Theylena and Natanatan are both actually east of Roshar and vorin and neither is known for having a particularly aggressive military.

[+asmodeus]

We recently theorised that Nergaoul might be responsible for some of the consistent warlike tendency that the East has displayed.

On one hand, you have this quote, from the Sadees, the Sunmaker (WoK Chp 24):

Spoiler

“All wars are games. The greatest kind, with the pieces lost real lives, the prizes captured making for real wealth! This is the life for which men exist. To fight, to kill, to win.” He was quoting the Sunmaker, the last Alethi king to unite the highprinces. Gavilar had once revered his name.

On the other, you have these, from Sadeas' PoV in WoR Chp 5:

Spoiler

“I’m not meant for this, love,” Sadeas whispered. “This stupid game on the plateaus. It sated me at first, but I’m growing to loathe it. I want war , Ialai. Not hours of marching on the off chance that we’ll find some little skirmish!”

Spoiler

“And our end goal?”
“I will have it back, Ialai,” he said, resting his fingers on Oathbringer’s hilt. “The conquest.”
It was the only thing that made him feel alive any longer. That glorious, wonderful Thrill of being on the battlefield and striving, man against man. Of risking everything for the prize. Domination. Victory.

Spoiler

He will push the highprinces, and they’ll take up arms against him, fracturing the kingdom. And then, with blood at my feet and Dalinar’s own sword in my hand, I will forge a new Alethkar from flame and tears.”
“What if, instead, he succeeds?”
“That, my dear, is when your assassins will be of use.” He dismissed the Shardblade; it turned to mist and vanished. “I will conquer this kingdom anew, and then Jah Keved will follow. After all, the purpose of this life is to train soldiers. In a way, I’m only doing what God himself wants.”

We have these, from Dalinar's flashbacks in OB:

Spoiler

Grass wriggled and pulled back in a wave before him. Like subjects bowing. This might be the end, his final battle in the conquest of Alethkar. What happened to him after this? Endless feasts with politicians? A brother who refused to look elsewhere for battle?
Dalinar opened himself to the Thrill and drove away such worries. He struck the line of enemy troops like a highstorm hitting a stack of papers. Soldiers scattered before him, shouting. Dalinar laid about with his Shardblade, killing dozens on one side, then the other.
Eyes burned, arms fell limp. Dalinar breathed in the joy of the conquest, the narcotic beauty of destruction. None could stand before him; all were tinder and he the flame. The soldier block should have been able to band together and rush him, but they were too frightened.

Spoiler

He spun among them, Plate lending him energy, Blade granting him precision, and the Thrill … the Thrill giving him purpose.
In moments like this, he could see why he had been created. He was wasted listening to men blab. He was wasted doing anything but this: providing the ultimate test of men’s abilities, proving them, demanding their lives at the edge of a sword. He sent them to the Tranquiline Halls primed and ready to fight.

Spoiler

Nothing. He did remember these last few years as a drunkard. The years before, spent in conquest. In fact, everything about his past seemed clear except her.

See the common elements at play in all of them?

Spoiler

zas678 (paraphrased)

Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them.

zas678 (paraphrased)

No, I'm talking about how Ruin was able to push people, place things in their minds, stuff like that. Can Odium do the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, Odium wasn't around when those people were created, so it's a little different for him than Ruin. So if he influences people in that way, it's through the Unmade.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

Odium reigns indeed.

[Staenbridge]

Regarding the Shin invasion, one of the major theories around that is that it was in order to seize as many of the Eastern Shardblades as possible. After all, there are less than 100 Blades in circulation among the entirety of the non-Shin states, with the majority of those being in, surprise surprise, the most eastern states. It's difficult to say how much mobility of Shardblades there is, but it's certainly a reasonable suspicion that the Alethi might have so many blades just because they were the furthest away from the Shin when the East got invaded. That would help justify why Nergaoul settled in Alethkar — they would make the best source of troops for Odium if they also had the most Blades. 

[Karnage]

1 hour ago, Staenbridge said:

Regarding the Shin invasion, one of the major theories around that is that it was in order to seize as many of the Eastern Shardblades as possible. After all, there are less than 100 Blades in circulation among the entirety of the non-Shin states, with the majority of those being in, surprise surprise, the most eastern states. It's difficult to say how much mobility of Shardblades there is, but it's certainly a reasonable suspicion that the Alethi might have so many blades just because they were the furthest away from the Shin when the East got invaded. That would help justify why Nergaoul settled in Alethkar — they would make the best source of troops for Odium if they also had the most Blades. 

Dude, seriously good insight! That all makes a lot of sense. Now that the Shin are far past being a war-like nation (unless Brandon pulls a huge twist, though with soldiers being slaves I seriously doubt that this could happen) and from what we know, a pretty peaceful nation. Along with Aimia ( which has no major groups of humans I presume so they cannot be majorly warlike, I think that Diomedes original notion makes sense.

[Diomedes]

On 3.5.2020 at 7:45 PM, Staenbridge said:

That would help justify why Nergaoul settled in Alethkar — they would make the best source of troops for Odium if they also had the most Blades. 

That`s my suspicion. Next book is going to feature the Alethi going over to Odium in large numbers. They have large experienced armies, a martial culture, lots of blades, everything Odium needs. This is somehow part of his plan.    

[first void]

Every country on Roshar had jobs given by the Heralds. As such, they are all placed in places convenient for their purpose. The Atheli were the warriors and guardians. They are east because that,s where the fighting was. The Shin were the breadbasket, so keep far from the fights. (Side note: humans arrived in the west of the continent first, which is why their is some non-rosharian creatures and plants. This means the human invasion would go west to east, so it makes sense the Atheli ended up east.)

[Hen]

The shin originally invaded roshar right? So, maybe the more power hungry people went as far as they could (Alethi and all them) while the less power hungry were content with the nations closer to shin (Reshi and Azir). So the more aggressive naturally went east, because of greed. And that war spirit was then ingrained into their society. It then makes sense why the purelakers would be so timid, because the purelake would most likely be the "Dregs" of Roshar, so it would fall to those least willing to fight. 

[first void]

When humanity arrived, the cultural lines weren't so clear. The assigning of jobs by Heralds came in sometime later. I think that the cultural identities were more influenced by the jobs assigned. This would explain the layout of the countries and the cultural attitudes of each group.